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Is it normal for bisexual people?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Nightdream, May 15, 2017.

  1. Nightdream

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    Hello there. I identify myself as bisexual, but there's something making me question again. I'm not sure if what I'm experiencing is something that other bi people usually go through.

    Alright, so I've only fallen in love with women in my life and it happened more than once. I had/have some crushes for the ladies that I know and sometimes I can't get my eyes out of a few of them... :icon_redf But anyway, my attraction to females happens normally.

    Now, here's were it gets strange. I never got any crushes or fell in love with men in real life, but I had a lot of those celebrity crushes and got very attached to many male characters, which hardly ever happen with female celebrity/fictional characters for me. I also experience sexual fantasies with men involved daily and find some guys occasionally cute, but not more than that.

    I thought it was enough for me to call myself bisexual since the straight and lesbian labels do not fit me at all. Yet, some people that know me were skeptical of my self identification because I never had any experience. I never kissed, touched or had sex with anyone. Is the "experiment" really that necessary?
     
  2. Chiroptera

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    Short answer: No. Experience is not necessary. You know who you are attracted to, and you can use your fantasies to discover them.

    In the end, what matters is that you are comfortable with yourself. If people are skeptical, that's their problem. You can explain to them if you want to, but that's not an obligation. Furthermore, only you can analyze your feelings and reach a conclusion about your orientation. No one else can enter your mind and judge if you are X, Y or Z.
     
  3. flatlander48

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    I have somewhat of a disagreement with that. I think experience will prevent having to revisit the question in the future. How we think of ourselves is one thing, but that doesn't make it 100% certain. Experience does that.

    However, it is important to remember that sexuality is a spectrum. In microcosm, that also applies to bisexuality. Our attractions, as a function of gender, are not necessarily 50%/50%. They can be 90/10, 10/90 or anywhere along the continuum.

    DeeAnn
     
  4. Creativemind

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    I'm not even bisexual, but I sometimes also get told "how do you know if you haven't experimented?"

    Well, how do straight people know if they haven't experimented with both sexes?

    What if you experiment with the same sex and hate the experience, but it wasn't because of their gender (wrong person, wrong time, not good physically, etc)?

    I think you can know by your fantasies.
     
  5. flatlander48

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    True. You will know a lot, but as I said, it won't be with 100% certainty. It's like the 80/20 concept. You can get 80% of the way there with 20% effort. However, that last 20% of the way needs that extra 80% effort.

    If you are comfortable with an 80% solution, fine. That may last for some time. But, I suspect at some point that won't be enough.

    DeeAnn
     
  6. Creativemind

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    And I disagree. I've known I was a lesbian for over 13 years, and I still have yet to do anything physical with a woman. And I know I am unattracted to men, because the mental thought repulses me. It's for the same reason I know I'm not attracted to the thought of engaging in scat play. You don't have to literally play with feces to know that scat turns you off.

    What about people who take sex seriously and are more conservative? If they force themselves to have sex with the same sex "to know" chances are, they will regret it. Chances are they will never enjoy it if casual sex feels uncomfortable to them morally, even if the same sex is involved. Why would I force myself to do something physically uncomfortable just to "prove something"?

    Some straight people don't even have sex until marriage. Are they secretly gay, bisexual, or asexual in denial? How come more people don't tell them they can't be straight until they sleep with both genders? And what about men who never even attempt to sleep with other men? Why not tell them they can't know they're not gay until they try it?
     
  7. flatlander48

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    No, it isn't about forcing anything. If you're comfortable with where you are, that's OK. However, there may come a time when you need to know with complete certainty. There is no substitute for experience.

    Let me pose this. If you knew someone was in a burning building, would you run in and attempt to save them? We would probably all answer Yes. But, the thing is, you don't really know unless you are confronted with that situation. That's where the certainty is.
     
  8. Creativemind

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    And that also depends on how experience is defined isn't it?

    I've technically dated both genders, it just wasn't sexual. I could easily tell my sexuality from that, considering I would get physically repulsed/turned off when my ex-boyfriend talked about sex between us (even though I thought I liked him), and didn't feel that way when my girlfriends did. I just didn't sleep with them because the relationship wasn't serious enough.

    Not to mention that I have had real crushes on women, have had real sexual fantasies about women, have experienced real heartbreak when women rejected me romantically. How is that not knowing for certain? A straight woman would never feel this. And many straight women do have sex with women, and call themselves straight even when they enjoy it and continue to do it.

    As for the burning building example, no I wouldn't assume that I'd run in and attempt to save anyone. I know the realism of the situation, and I know that I would freeze up and wouldn't be brave enough. If you're a logical thinker, you can easily tell what a reaction will be even when you're not confronted with it.

    The only issue I have is when people tell me I can't identify as a lesbian because I haven't had sex with anyone. If that were true, then my parents wouldn't be allowed to identify as heterosexuals since they haven't had sex with the same sex. They might not know if they'd never tried it- but some people wouldn't want to cross that path.
     
    #8 Creativemind, May 15, 2017
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  9. Shorthaul

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    I think the thing about the "celebrity" crushes, is you are seeing only an ideal. Most of the time you see them as a character they are playing or when they are putting their best foot forward to appeal to their fans. You rarely see the real person they are.

    After thinking about it, I haven't had a new female celebrity crush in a long time. Zooey Deschanel is still the only one and I haven't seen anything with her in it in a while... I do keep finding new male ones, I would probably do anything Tom Hiddleston asked if he was dressed as Loki.

    I don't think the "experience" is necessary. I think Creativemind explained that perfectly well with her mention of scat play. Because I definitely don't need to try it to know I won't like it. Its also never been nor will it ever be even a fantasy. An even more extreme example would be skydiving, I sure as hell know I won't like it because I already hate flying, so why would I jump out of a plane?
     
  10. flatlander48

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    I didn't say "can't". What I said was know with complete certainty. Those are two very different things. From my observation, without experience I think the best you can say is "probably".

    DeeAnn
     
    #10 flatlander48, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  11. mousefire

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    This isn't helpful or fair at all. People can know what their sexual orientation is with complete certainty without experimentation. If someone is attracted to and fantasizes about the same gender, and they feel this means they're gay/bi/queer/pansexual (depending on how they feel about the opposite gender), that's what they are. It honestly doesn't really matter how they feel about having sex with that gender. A bi woman can be bisexual and not enjoy sex with women, a lesbian can be a lesbian and not enjoy sex with women, because asexuality exists and sexual desire does not always line up with romantic feelings. Also, as someone pointed out, straight people are not pressured to "know with certainty" by experimenting the same way LGBT people are. Putting the pressure on LGBT people to "know for sure" by experimenting is really unfair. LGBT people do not have to experiment to "prove" their gayness and fit some arbitrary bullshit standards. Also, it's not even necessarily important to know with "certainty" in a lot of cases. It's really shitty to dictate whether or not someone can "know with certainty" what their sexual orientation is just because YOU personally believe experimentation is necessary. Like you said, that's YOUR observation, and you are not the expert on other peoples' sexual orientations.
     
  12. Creativemind

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    What about transgender people? By the same logic, you can't know if you're a trans woman until you get full blown genital surgery, since you don't know what It's like to live with an actual vagina and be socialized as an actual woman.

    I notice that you are somewhat non-binary. A lot of people don't believe that non-binary people exist at all since there are no full fledged surgeries for it. How do you know that you're non-binary if you only have one set of genitals? Try removing your genitals through surgery before you identify as trans spectrum, otherwise you wouldn't know what It's like to be a "real" woman/man/other since you haven't been born as one. It's the same exact logic.

    I know I'm a lesbian, with complete and absolute certainty, and sleeping with some random woman isn't going to change that. Gay people aren't attracted to every single person of the same sex on the planet. What happens if I experiment with a woman and hate the experience? You could use that against me to say "I'm not gay", when in reality, It's probably because I morally hate casual sex and feel creeped out by exposing my body to a stranger. You act like gay people have no ethics at all, and that one bout of sex is supposed to mean something, when it really means nothing at all.

    And what happens if I DO sleep with both genders, but find out that I don't like sex with anyone? Wouldn't that confuse me enough to make me identify as asexual? But then instead of accepting that I'm "asexual", people would say that I just haven't found the right person.
     
  13. flatlander48

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    You jumped to some conclusions in what you said. I said nothing about anyone being pressured to do anything. If there is any pressure for preople, it comes from within. Surely you have seen posts here where people are virtually desperate to figure out how things sit for them. THAT'S where whatever pressure there is comes from. It isn't external.

    Sorry, that is way off base because roughly 2/3 of trans people do not have affirmation surgery. The other thing is that what you believe is confirmed by living/interacting as your target gender and being comfortable in doing so.

    The statistics are in opposition to what you say and you have just highlighted your limited knowledge of the transgender experience. It is reminiscent of how many heterosexual people think of gay people. Besides, you cannot be "somewhat non-binary". By definition you are either binary or non-binary. There is no middle ground.
     
  14. Creativemind

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    I think you completely missed the point of my post.

    I did not mean to say that you have to be post-op to be a real transgender person. I do not believe that personally at all.

    I meant, that saying you have to literally have sex with the same gender in order to know you're gay, is not at all different than saying you have to be post-op in order to know for 100% certainty that you are transgender. Plenty of cis people (and even some post-op trans people) will definitely argue this, as being oppressed as a woman is something cis women experience at birth. Trans women will never have the same experience as a cis woman does at birth, and it can easily be used as an argument to say "they can't be trans with 100% certainty" because they do not have the real cis woman experience.

    The non-binary identity isn't even backed up by actual scientific facts, It's purely an "emotional identity" thing. And that's completely fine, but you can't take an emotional bias on something and then say "well I don't have to have the same experience as a real cis person of the opposite sex to be trans, yet gay people have to actually have x experience to be gay". That is a logical inconsistency.

    You cannot have it both ways. Either both gay people and trans people need 100% experience to fully know what they are, or neither side does.
     
    #14 Creativemind, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  15. Nightdream

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    Looks like my thread ended up in a little discussion. I really didn't expect that. Oh well, I just asked because I heard so many people "changing" their orientation later in life and I was afraid of doing that. I'm going to stick with the bisexual identity until proven otherwise then. You are free to keep on with the discussion, but I already took my decision, ok? Just don't attack each other and try to be friendly even if you disagree with each other's opinion.
     
  16. EverDeer

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    If you have attractions to multiple genders or sexes, no matter the percentage, or the ratio, or who you prefer dating or usually end up falling for, and you feel most comfortable calling yourself bisexual, then so be it. There are some bi people who feel more comfortable labeling themselves as straight or gay due to the fact that they may only be romantically or emotionally attracted to one gender and only end up dating them, or other reasons, and oftentimes it is easier to live life as "one or the other". If you truly believe you're bisexual and do not experience monosexual attraction, then you should be free to call yourself bisexual regardless of the "percentage". You shouldn't have to "prove" to anyone that you're gay enough or straight enough or whatever. Me personally, I've only ever dated men because I find it easier to connect to them emotionally and romantically, but that doesn't mean I stop finding women pretty or wanting to have sex with them once and awhile even if my attraction towards women stalls or goes away completely during some periods of time when I'm in a relationship.

    ---------- Post added 16th May 2017 at 04:30 PM ----------

    This post has nothing to do with OP's or anyone's gender identity. It's no ones job to prove their gender or sexuality to anyone through means of comparisons between straight, gay, trans, or otherwise. Some people who are gay have the desire to test and see if they really truly fully are, so do some straight people, maybe some people end up regretting it or realizing they didn't like it, and some people (like me) thought it would be gross but did it anyway and were just completely clueless and found out they ended up enjoying it and did experience attraction to multiple genders. No ones attacking how you identify, this isn't really such a black and white issue, people choose to identify where they feel most comfortable based on what they feel has most truly applied to them and their lives. People shouldn't need to prove their identities or anyone, period, but everyone takes different paths to proving themselves to themselves.
     
  17. gravechild

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    Is it possible you might admire these celebrities? I've heard several women on the site say they mistook those for crushes, in the past.
     
  18. Creativemind

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    A lot of the stuff I'm saying isn't even anything I purely believe about gender identities on an emotional level.

    It's purely to point out that the commenter is being hypocritical by arguing that gay people need to physically "prove" ourselves in order to be a real 100% gay person, yet apparently people in the trans community can call themselves whatever they want based on a "feeling". It's hypocrisy and lacks complete logic. And personally, I don't see why It's wrong for me to question how someone can know they're trans without having a real physical experience of the opposite sex, especially if someone else is coming in arguing that I can't really know I'm gay just because I'm a virgin.

    I never said that experimenting to find out isn't valid if it works for you, but there have been statements that force experimentation on virgin gay/bi people.
     
    #18 Creativemind, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  19. Nightdream

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    It might be that, but even if that's just admiration, I often get sexual thoughts about men. These thoughts started right after a traumatic event, so I'm not entirely sure that's a natural thing for me.
     
  20. Weregild

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    I used to think I was straight, when I was in denial, but then I had sex with a man (I did not like it) and have since started to question my sexuality. So I suppose experience does play a significant role in defining one's sexuality.

    Most of my life I've only had more significant crushes on men, and a few little ones on women. But regarding crushes, I'd say heteronormativity unfortunately plays a significant role: it forces us to build romantic relationships only with people of the opposite sex, so that even small displays of affection can be mistaken with something deeper and more significant than that. On the other hand, heartfelt affection and love between people of the same sex is readily regarded as nothing more than friendship.

    I think that some experience may help you find out what you really want for yourself in concrete. Crushes are just crushes; most of the time they don't evolve into real relationships, which are a whole different thing in practice. I could say the same about attraction: you might feel desire towards someone, but actually having sex with that person will be a much more different experience.

    I also don't think sexuality is something innate or biological. It has a lot to do with social norms and practices. (There are a lot of interesting videos where Julie Bindel discusses this, if you're interested).
     
    #20 Weregild, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017