Hello, I'm still ashamed to be gay. I realised I was gay when I was 19- I'm now 25, and not feeling much different. I am out to my friends, and to a few past colleagues. I've generally only come out when drunk. I tried dating last year, and to my surprise there were quite a few guys who liked me. I went on second and even third dates with a few, but to their obvious disappointment I couldn't bring myself to 'do' anything. Even being hugged at the end of a date felt embarrassing. When in dates I always hoped the guy I was with wasn't too camp, so he wouldn't offend the other people around us in the pub. I couldn't feel attracted to these guys at all, sadly. I'm also ashamed because I am 25, still a virgin (I've never even kissed anyone, except two guys I dated briefly, on the cheek, because I could tell they wanted me to, though I didn't feel like it), and because I didn't realise until age 19. So many people seem to know so early. Why not me? One stupid story that I've never told anyone about is that on the same night that I realised I was gay, my grandad died; I thought for a long time that God killed my grandad as punishment. I know it's stupid (I wasn't even brought up religious!), but it's what I believed. I didn't even think 'gay' was really a thing until then. My parents aren't ones to rant or rave against gay people; it was hardly ever mentioned when I was growing up. It still isn't. When my parents dislike something, they ignore it; let's pretend it doesn't exist. They dislike any man who acts camp or effeminate. They think that being gay is a mental illness, or perhaps something people choose do to rebel. My dad thinks that gay men are paedophiles. I also feel ashamed because I don't live up to the standards of gay people. I don't really fit any of the body stereotypes, I don't participate in the 'community' or Pride. I didn't understand what the Drag Race was until I Googled it...it doesn't appeal to me :/ I don't even know many gay people. I tend to feel pretty uncomfortable around them. I'm not saying that me feeling ashamed is anyone else's fault; I'm sure it's all down to me, but I would like to end the shame. I don't want to be old never having been with anyone. I couldn't face society's judgement about that.
You obviously have a lot of family issues that make it difficult to feel pride in yourself as a homosexual. It's difficult to respect your sexuality if your parents are not being supportive and your dad is comparing gay men to pedophiles, he obviously needs some education on that. I can't offer much help with your family issues, but I will tell you to not give a shit what "society" thinks of you being single and "late" realising your sexuality. Many people come out much much later in life after they've already been married and had kids, and that's their life, its nobody else's place to judge them, just as its nobody else's place to judge you for being single and a virgin. It's up to you when you experience your first sexual encounter and relationship, you don't need pressure from how others might be thinking of you. There is enough homophobia around, you don't need negativity from other gay people as well. And Fuck Drag Race. Honestly, guys, who gives a shit about that bollocks?
There is nothing to be ashamed about everyone is different with different levels of comfort and so forth so, just be proud of who you are right now
So most of your problems seem to be connected to you being gay, most mostly they are truly about your sense of worthiness overall. Have you ever spoken with a therapist about any of this? I think it might be incredibly helpful to have someone help you unpack everything that you are going through. This seems to be it. To a lot of gay men, we subconsciously want to "make up" for being gay by being the best at everything that society throws at us. The best student, obedient kid, volunteers, good in school, etc. But going around and doing things just to please "society" is incredibly painful and that's what's eating you inside. You are still basing your worthiness based on what other people think. Even if you accepted being gay, you still think there is a "right way" to be gay and that you HAVE to have a relationship. That is so harmful and it will lead into even more trouble. If I were you, I would first focus on working on yourself esteem and being okay with the fact that trying to please everyone will never make you happy. For example, if you only accept gay people who aren't perceived as gay so you can all hide then you are going to be miserable. Being the "right" kind of gay means that your whole life is shaped by the fear of disappointing random strangers that you will never know. You hate camp gays and everything associated with them because it allows you to feel superior and it shields you from your own shame. You are gay, but at least you are not like "those" people. That is what is holding you back. Speak with a professional. I think that will help you tremendously long term.
I've seen two counsellors in the past but neither were keen to talk through my sexuality with me. I'm quite apprehensive about going back to see a therapist for a third time but I would definitely consider it if I could afford to. Are there ways of working on your self esteem without therapy? Excuse me? Please tell me where I have suggested I am superior and outright hate camp-acting people! That is not what I mean or feel AT ALL but I've clearly offended at least one person, and that was NOT my intention!
I'm not sure how I should work through these issues but I really appreciate your reply. I wish more people thought the same way.
Ouch, sorry you had to expereince that. If you can, before scheduling a future appointment ask them "Do you have experience working with LGBT clients?" If their answer isn't an immediate "Yes...." then politely walk away. Sadly, not all mental health counselors are knowledgeable about lgbt issues, but being gay is such an integral part of your self esteem issues that you have to talk about it in therapy. There are, but it takes way longer and a lot more effort. It also takes being able to avoid the horrible self-help books. If you want to start by yourself, I would probably start with Brene Brown. Look up her Ted Talk and start there. If what she says clicks with you then you can start by reading her books. Hopefully that will start you in the right direction. You never outright said it. None of us usually do. But most of us have been where you are. Most of us have been scared of the more feminine gay guys and glad we are not them. We have been "not into them sadly" and we have been scared of a simple hug in public. All of those feelings don't come out of thin air. All of it its fear of being perceived as them. We don't want to be treated like faggots so we do everything in our power to separate ourselves from them because we know that if we are "those" gays then our families might just love us less. That's fucking scary. Many times this happens subconsciously, and I do believe its happening with you. But, it doesn't make you a bad person. It just means you, like all of us, were taught that guys should behave a certain way. Luckily you can unlearn all of those toxic thoughts that are killing you from the inside. It just takes time and it takes allowing yourself to feel it all.
When you say they weren't keen to talk about your sexuality, did they actually say "we won't talk about that" or did the subject just not come up? Did you avoid the subject yourself? It might be that they did not want to discuss your sexuality if you didn't give any indication that you wanted to talk about it. As for working on your self esteem, if you want to "borrow" some of the advice I was given, start by giving yourself lists to work on each day. Write down tasks that you need to do, even if they are really boring, mundane tasks that you do every day, like cleaning up around the house, or jobs that you've been putting off like getting rid of things you don't use any more, or maybe exercises that you've been wanting to take up, like going for a run. Tick these tasks off as you complete them, and it will give you a sense of accomplishment. This will help improve your mood, and therefore you will start to see more value in yourself. Doing these things will also help you focus on things that you can do right here and right now, so that you aren't worrying about things that are beyond your control. I think that having low self esteem comes from seeing things as being too difficult or requiring too much effort, or more effort than we are willing to give. But starting out small and taking little steps to self improvement will help us get there. And remember that as we make improvements and things start to look up, there will be moments when we slip or something unpleasant happens and our mood goes down again. This is natural because life isn't perfect, being happy and confident doesn't mean we have to be happy and confident all the time. Look back on all the things that you've ticked on that list and it will remind you that you are capable of getting things done, and you won't let having a low mood stop you.
I wrote a long post but the site ate it up somehow. Oh, well... Shame is a huge issue for a lot of non-straight people. It sounds like you grew up in just the type of family that leads to a whole bunch of internalized homophobia and shame... and shame is toxic. Shame kills relationships (as you've already seen from your own experience) and leads to a lot of pain and trouble. The problem is that we learn our basic view of the world from our families, and the worldview your family taught you generates shame. I'm still trying to deal with a lot of it myself, but things that I found/find helpful are: 1. Therapy - if there's a LGBT organization/group where you live, they might be able to refer you to LGBT-friendly therapists. 2. Getting to know other gay people - as friends, not as potential boyfriends. I don't think we can have healthy, good, lasting romantic relationships until we've worked out this issue of shame and fully accepted ourselves. That's why I would recommend that you put dating on hold for a bit. But I found being around people who are gay, and are normal, healthy functioning individuals is extremely helpful. I didn't have any images or models of normal gay people growing up (if you ask my parents, all gays are Devil-worshipping sinful pedophiles who are trying to convert innocent kids). I didn't really want to join my school's LGBT group because I was still very ashamed - I didn't want other people to know I'm gay and I didn't want to be one of "those people". But I did join, and made some very good friends, and won a social space where being gay is just... normal. I feel better about myself when I'm around them. 3. The Brene Brown lectures mentioned in a previous post were a big help. She talks about the impacts of shame and the thinking that enforces shame. I re-watch them every now and then. 4. Recognizing that taking a break from dating doesn't mean I'll be forever alone, it gives me time to work on myself so I'll be able to find someone to share my life with. I sometimes get depressed about being alone my whole life... but then I think about the shitty kind of guys I tend to attract these days, and the reason that happens - because I still haven't fully accepted myself and still feel like I'm defective for being gay - and I know it's the right choice for now. Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint. This process is going to take time. Give yourself the time and space you need to do this. And once you do accept yourself and stop feeling this shame, you will also find that it's easier to create romantic relationships that are lasting and healthy and just might be there forever. And that being gay is not as horrible as your parents think, and doesn't make you less worthy, or sinful, or bad. It's a truth that's easy to understand intellectualy, but takes time to internalize... give yourself that time. Take care.
Hello there, While I can't offer much by way of advice, I can say you are not alone. And your message reads like something I could've written. I also thought my grandpa died when I realised I was gay. I came out to a colleague and the next morning he passed. I was 25. I knew from about 16 but didn't dare say anything. I don't come out easily. I have never been to Pride here and I only watched one episode of that drag show. It's not for me either. I think everyone is different and there is no one way to be gay. For me, being semi in the closet and staying single works. I don't even have gay friends because the ones I used to have tried to pressure me to date and club etc which is not my scene. Just know you are not alone. I am sure there are others like us. And you will find a way to be you. It takes baby steps and I am still working on the shame even after all these years of coming out. I am now 39. It's a different journey for everyone. Hugs
Hi everyone. Thanks for your responses. This is just me saying what I've decided to do, in case anyone is remotely interested. I think it all comes down to 'internalised honophobia'. It's hard to even write. Often it feels like more out/open gay people (like many of the members of EC) really hate me, or find me offensive in my posts. I don't know if this is because I come across as honophobic, because I don't know the proper terminology to discuss these things. Anyway, I am going to try to find an LGBT counsellor (therapist). There aren't many resources near me, but I'll see. In September I'll be moving away from my parents to attend university as a mature student. I'll be studying a subject which I want to make my career. Choosing to do this went against my family, friends colleagues etc. That's one of the only times I've ever really chosen to pursue one of my deep needs/dreams and it feels fucking GOOD! I want to do the same with my sexuality. I don't know why I've written all this post for everyone to see, and it probably sounds very strange and immature, but I honestly hurt so much inside. I think going against my family and upbringing will be very difficult. It has been beaten into me (literally!) that I should always respect my parents, that any wavering from their authority is wrong. I can see now that although they're not necessarily bad people, this environment isn't good for me. Please don't think I'm childish- I'm 25 but I know there are plenty of 12 year old who are further along the path to acceptance that I am. My background denies that things like homosexuality and following your dreams exist, so I'm bound to have slower 'development'.
Trust me, no one hates you. What you are feeling when I said those things is a projection of your own emotions. For example, no healthy individual (specially here on EC) will ever think this. We all know exactly how fucking hard it is to come out and accept ourselves. Some of us took longer than others and that is fine. We have had member here came out in their 50s after having 3 kids and a wife. Many of them are now in amazing relationships with guys they love and they are still involved with their families. There is no shame in dealing with this at any age The shame you feel for dealing with you gayness as a "late bloomer" is all internal. I'm telling this to you because, while you are a complete stranger, we all feel for your pain and love you because we have all been in your exact same situation before. All the more out gays that you see out there had to go through what you are going through right now. We all had to survive the trauma of growing up gay in a world that is built to destroy us in many ways. You got this Not sure how college works there, but do they provide any free counseling for you guys? Keep writing my friend. As you will find out writing all of this out can be very helpful and healing. Stick around, vent a little more, ask questions and meet other people. All of us are here for the same reasons so welcome to EC
No, you don’t sound immature. We all go through the same thing - working to accept ourselves in a world and a society that taught us from an early age that being gay is shameful. Internalized homophobia is the result. Sounds like we come from a similar type of family. It is difficult to go against everything that we’ve been taught. But there isn’t really a choice - living an authentic life, true to ourselves, means we must reject things we’ve been taught that are destructive to us and create shame. It’s a bit like being reborn. I’m still in the middle of the process, but it’s so much better than it used to be. It does get better. Take care.
