How to stop being misogynistic?

As long as you consider yourself the arbiter of women's behaviour, you're not trying. Your solution at present is to meet a woman who meets your standards. That solution is a very shallow approach; you'll meet a woman you consider to be an exception, but that still means that you're disparaging women in general and your approval becomes patronising and unfriendly.

Femininity and women do not exist for your approval or the approval of men in general. That's one of the core tenants of feminism. Women are not up for your evaluation and do not have to conform to behaviours you deem correct; while you lump women together and disapprove, you're not genuinely trying to improve.

 

That's probably what 95% of those who clicked this are doing.​

And it sucks to feel afraid or even hostile towards reaching out, so, let me applaud you on that act of bravery.

Imagine feeling like that a lot of the time. Especially the more "desirable" you are, the more "marketable" you are, basically, the more exploitable you are. Women are subjected to this a lot, and it goes even further than that, sadly. Women will compete with one another instead of helping one another, tear down one another instead of building up one another -- and for what? To be considered gawk-porn? To show the world, yeah, I'm so much better than all you other women!

And God forbid a lady doesn't want to be dolled up, or hands-and-knees to "her man". She's being a bad girl (and not that kind I have an affinity for, let's make that distinction clear, LOL!), a disgrace to #TeamVagina, for not doing what everybody -- in most cases, a Caucasian man -- tells her to do; who to be.


You want to just cut back on the flawless for a day?
You're ugly without makeup.

You want to just skip the dishes tonight, because you're tired?
You're worthless as a wife.

You want to actually work for a living, and make that money?
You're too delicate to handle it.

You want to go to school and get that knowledge?
You're too pretty to do that.

You want to wear something comfortable?
You're fat because you aren't wearing those just-too-small jeans.


Let's not even address the pornography industry...


The point is, women that "don't act right", are at risk for some kind of harm. It could be as drastic as physical or sexual abuse, or to psychological or emotional damage, courtesy of the -- what I call, Triple Hitter Spirit Crusher -- 'You fat, ugly, and a dumb slut'. Tell any girl that, and it's over for her.

Done.

Yeeeer out.

Now, you're probably thinking to yourself, gee Kaiser, that's a cute little tidbit, but how does that help me?

I wanted to give you a glimpse into that perspective. It's easy to see why women are motivated, purely, by fear or hate. It may not be every, usually, heterosexual male, but it's still one anybody too many, period. Sometimes it even comes from our fellow sisters.

Now, this doesn't excuse it, but it does explain it. Here's the irony, though.

That radical senselessness is divisive. And when you divide something, reasons are had for why there is division. Many men feel attacked, falsely accused or, in several cases, guilty of being called out. This isn't to say all men are bad, they aren't, and one look around this forum will show you that. But those radicals are banking on you getting hostile and upset, thus increasing the likelihood you will do something, because it fuels their feminist machine.


Let me make something clear. When I say their feminist machine, I mean their. Not the advocating and organizing events, ideas, or groups, that are cohesively and unitedly positive forces.


It's hard, but your actions reveal a lot about you. They can make you a confirmation for something, or an exception to that same something. It may not go smoothly or quickly, but it will go. The same can be said on the women's side, as well.

Realize that what incites you, is not everybody. It'd be offensive to say all white people are in the Ku Klux Klan, just because, statistically, white individuals are the Ku Klux Klan. It would be ignorant to say all Germans are Nazis, just because some mustachioed buffoon wanted to fuck the world in the ass. You may encounter more of the negative, but the exceptions you will find, because of those irritable and disliked encounters, will make you more appreciative.

A good exercise for alleviating ideas and beliefs is this:

Think of who/what makes you sad/mad. Think about your side, and their side. Put yourself in their shoes, then slip into yours; go back and forth, comparing and contrasting each side. See if there is any similarities. If so, there's your common ground to work with. If not, explore why there isn't.

For this particular case, ask yourself, do you know any exceptional women? Any lady that might defy or even challenge your general perception of women? I'm quite sure you can. If not, honey, we might have to stop bein' friends! LOL.

But seriously, to truly overcome an idea or belief, you have to do some soul searching. It might make you vulnerable, maybe even feel weak, but a real man would still saddle up anyway.

(*hug*) (*hug*) (*hug*)

 

^^This, this, so much this!

Could not agree more!

 

Understandable. But that's why I chose them. It is important to be able to face your fears, and to eventually conquer them. Is it not being vulnerable to their mere suggestion, or showing weakness by avoiding them?

It's fine to not want to tackle something, that brings no gain. Something unproductive. But these shackles, as heavy as they may weigh upon you, you need to understand something: break free of them, you'll become that much closer to masculinity incarnate.

Ain't much sexier than a man who, shook or not, steps up to the plate and handles their business. You owe it to yourself, because saying 'fuck you' to something like this, is the harbinger of security and strength.

<3

 

Could it be some sort of "internalized transphobia?" I ask because there are gay men who cannot bear being "gay" and sometimes resort to being homophobic as a crutch and way to deflect attention to themselves, or lash out against those they see as themselves, but loathe. I'm not saying this is you or any transguy, but it seems that it could be some sort of parallel between gay men being homophobic and trans men being misogynists.

Well transmen are men, they have/do experience things that no cis man has. They may be misgendered, have monthly episodes that cause dysphoria, lack adequate access to mental and physical healthcare, and suffer from discrimination and odd looks. I am not saying that to make people feel bad, but sometimes it helps to understand the many crosses we bear that ultimately shape our world views and opinions.

Transmen fall at the intersection where they grew up gendered as women and forced by society to adopt names and customs of such, but see themselves diametrically oppossite to this. Trans men are privy to a world that many men are not: a woman's world. While access to this domain has been improperly granted by bad luck of chance, it does expose some trans men to a world where women may express how they feel about some men in private and be very biased against men (men do the same in private and can be very misogynistic). Perhaps exposure to this can lead transmen to feel biased against women.

To the OP, you did once mention "vaginas are nasty," or something to that effect. I think that could perhaps also show that you may have a slight aversion to female topics that could easily trigger misogynistic thoughts based on a small segment of women (i.e. Tumblr/radical feminists).

 

NingyoBroken, I read what you stated, and I am unable to identify anything about my gender advocacy that could be described as sexist against men.

If you disagree, then I cordially invite you to come write on my wall and explain--however forcefully you want to vent at me--where my advocacy is in fact sexist against men.

I'm more than happy to learn from someone else who is willing to expose the error of my ways or, in any case, arrive at a better understanding of places where we might disagree and why.

My reason for mentioning this is not to make it about me but to try and identify what it about gender advocacy you've seen from people here that lead you to these conclusions. The conclusions you speak of are not new in my research (in fact, men feeling this way is extremely common). Unfortunately, I never get anyone willing to have an extended conversation with me about why.

They've already decided I'm the enemy before they've heard a single view of mine.

Adrienne

 

If you don't mind. I would like an explaination as well...

I thought you were only talking about people you met in person at first... Until you said Kaiser is the only one...

I'm sorry, but if you are grouping me with a bunch of women who are "irrational and confusing, or level-headed/strong but sexist against men". I would really like to know why. I know I never said anything sexist against men. So there must be something else that makes you say that, I guess?

 

I'm only misogynistic when around feminists. That's it. Reason being I hate Feminism. I do admit the feminists and radical feminists are trying to do what they feel is the best for women by getting rid of the remaining sexism in society, and I'm glad that they're in the right mindset, but I speak against them because they're going about it all wrong. By only focusing on women's issues, we're only going to end up with a female supremacist society rather than an equal one, not to mention Radical Feminists try to make things better for women by lacking empathy and being disrespectful towards men and mens issues. So, even though the feminists and radical feminists are in the right mindset, that being there are still problems with being a woman that needs to be addressed, I feel as though they should choose a different route and become a Humanist or a Humanitarian and focus on the issues of BOTH genders rather than just women.

And also, to Anita Sarkeesian, leave my f*cking video games alone! I love Super Mario, and so what if Princess Peach is depicted as a "damsel in distress." It doesn't change how I view women.

 

Um, mousekeeper, Humanist means someone who believes that humans should solve their own problems instead of depending on the divine, and a Humanitarian is someone who helps other humans and puts charity and good will toward others on the top of their priorities. Many feminists are both of those things. Also, other than radical feminists, who exactly are trying to create a female dominated society? You know, men said that when women were asking for the right to vote. Just us asking to be treated equally seems to be twisted into us trying to rule men somehow.

Also, while I don't really like Anita, she does nothing to affect your video games other than critique them. She's allowed to say "Hey I feel ______ is sexist because A B and C" you don't have you agree, but the fact that you think this is somehow her ruining video games says to me that you seem to be under the impression that women merely criticizing, discussing, and debating issues is them trying to ruin things for you.

There have been numerous studies done that shows that when women speak any more than around 15-20% of the time, men feel that women are dominating the conversation. This same effect has been shown to take place when it comes to women taking up space. Women also apologize more, and when women don't they are seen as 'rude' or 'domineering' mean while a man who acts the same is 'in charge'. I suggest that the reason you think feminists are trying to make a female dominated society is because we are asking to be treated better than we are now.

 

Not every feminist hates men. Maybe the ones that do are the loudest and the most obvious, but not every single one is like that. Personally, I'm against feminism and think that's not the way to go, but if someone tells me they're a feminist, so what? As long as they aren't huge assholes.

Also, I understand that you see a lot of women acting this way, but does that mean you should respond back in a "sexist" manner? I mean, I get it. You have probably been surrounded by a bad group of people, specifically women, and i;ve had a lot of the same kind of experiences and ive been in those kinds of ruts. Maybe it's a coincidence that it's only been women who are like this to you, maybe a lot of these women are only like this because a lot of society thinks that women should act in a certain way. I honestly don't know what you specifically are experiencing. What I think you need to do though, is assess the situation, whether you're looking at the whole picture, or at just one small situation. Think about your emotions, the other person's emotion, why both of you are feeling this way and how you could make whatever is going on better. We're all human, we all complain and have flaws, we have to discuss to solve them. It really is a brave thing to post what you did on here, and ask for thoughts and insight. Hope i helped out in some way

 

I hate men. Huh. Wonder how 90% of my friends will feel about that.

We know men have problems, in fact the problems of men make up a part of feminists discussions, the idea of men having to face up to a strict standard of masculinity, the fact that men are inherently seen and strong and women as weak, the fact that men are seen as the providers and women the ones taken care of. Most of men's problems are attributed to that. Emma Watson in her speech about feminism, talked a lot about the problems of men. The thing is, we are going to concentrate on the problems of women because if we don't, they get ignored completely. Remember what I said about men thinking women dominate the conversation when they talk more than 15% of the time? Yeah, imagine that on a larger political scale.

Look and how fewer women there are in positions of power and authority, look at how much less we get promoted, look and how we get treated in many industries (Funnily enough, in female dominated industries, men get more raises and promotions on average), we have a much harder time trying to change things to fix our problems.

You yourself have admitted that you suffer from internalized misogyny, so you have to sit back, and take a hard look at yourself. Isn't it entirely possible, that because you have an admittedly skewed perception towards women, that you overestimate how much women talk about themselves, how much they vent about men, and underestimate how much they talk about men's problems? That you might have misconstrued a woman's argument and beliefs in order to fit into your preconceived notions of how women think.

 

I can admit myself.. I can be fairly misandristic at times myself but tbh it's just hatred towards guys who treat women like disposable sex objects. And where I live there are alot of them that are like that. On the bright side after I get to know certain guys a little more and they sort of show their gentleman side i start to feel rather fond of them in a platonic sense. At first I am very skeptical of certain men but even the assholes can be total softies. I have said alot of things on this site that might make me look like a die hard feminist but honestly.. At the end of the day I kind of wish we could all just get along :lol:

I'm not going to hate on you for being misogynistic (because that would make me a hypocrite) but I will tell you that not all women are the same just like not all guys are the same. My sister was almost/probably raped by my mums ex boyfriend when we were like 6 and 7. She would always tell me not to answer questions he asked.. And being the good protective big sister she is and was she got me to hide up in mums wardrobe with her in the corner. The guy was a total creep and I can't stand guys like that. I've met guys who are completely harmless though.. So I kind of stop being so cold towards them

Also one of my best friends is a guy believe it or not

 

(*hug*)@Chloe

Some feminists are people who had to fight in their lives.
Some might have become stuck in that role.
Don't play that game.
Keep a relaxed attitude.

Its possible to get together without fighting.


I'd say look for the common things instead.


We all have a need to feel respected. If you treat others like that, you might get it back.


You could start to look for good traits in people, in women and in men.

 

OK. Fair enough.

 

I have to agree with her. I could say the exact same thing about my experiences with men (word for word with pronouns switched), and I could say I felt the most hatred in my life from men (which is true), and I could say I felt more understood and supported by other women (which again is true), but for me to say it drives me to hatred of men (it doesn't), would make you feel unfairly blamed and dehumanized.

So I would respectfully ask for the same consideration, especially since you're not familiar with my social and ethical views.