HIV rethink...

I find this to be judgmental in a veiled sort of way. Whether divorce or other issues, those things are not the same. The chance of needing over $1,000 in expensive medication, at retail, every month for a slip up, even if unintentional, is not in the cards for most people, and many here may share this position but do not want to offer it up, since it appears to be the unpopular one on this thread. Something that is analogous to an accidental needle stick in the health service industry could also happen inside a relationship that has intimacy. The possibilities are many.

I think the people who hold this position are above average in neediness when it comes to relationships in general and will be more tolerant when it comes to this issue. For those of us who aren't that interested in relationships because we've "been there, done that," this is a deal breaker.

 

That's quite a bit extreme. Going to wear a condom when you are married?

 

I have come late to this very thoughtful thread.

And the reason I have come late to it? Because, yes, I am one of those who are scared shitless of HIV. I don't want to think about it.

'Get over the 1980s' is all very well. But to those of us who grew up in the 1980s (I was 12 in 1980s, 21 in 1989) that is easier said than done.

The first guy I ever had sex with was HIV+. I don't know if he was when we had sex, but he was later. I was lucky.

But every cold, every little thing wrong with me, I thought 'This is it. I'm going to die'.

If a potential partner told me he was positive, I would run a mile.

The memory of it all, people dying too young and all that, haunts me, as it does many gay men of my generation.

 

It will definitely be a conversation my partner and I have. I'm planning on always wearing a condom (or making my partner wear a condom) when it comes to anal sex, as HIV isn't the only thing you can get from unprotected gay sex. You can also get urinary tract infections very easily if you have unprotected anal sex. But yes, even if both of us have a HIV- diagnosis and we are in a monogamous relationship, I'm still going to ask of them and myself to wear a condom, because slip ups happen.

I've also witnessed two people in my teenage years waste away and die from AIDS, both in their early to mid twenties. Both of them were poor, and could not afford the medication they needed to keep their HIV from turning into AIDS. One of them was raped by their father and became HIV+ at a very young age, and the other was in a monogamous relationship with their boyfriend, or so he thought. It turns out that one day, his partner cheated on him with some other people, they had unprotected sex one night, and then the next time they got checked, they were both HIV+. I was actually talking to him before he passed about condom use, and he told me that you should ALWAYS wear a condom, and don't make the same mistake they did. That had a oretty lasting effect on me as a gay teenager at the time. I thought that barebacking was a normal thing to do, because many porn companies will actually shoot only porn with no condom use. This led me to change my mind about condom use completely, and I hope for you and possibly others something will come that will change your mind before you don't use condoms.

 

Everyone needs to establish there own risk tolerances outside of and inside a relationship. Either way, And even with protection, getting tested is important.

 

I agree with getting tested, yes.

 

There are other ways to get off which can feel mighty fine and have very low risk or virtually no risk. That's how I would have addressed the situation. Others might view it the same way as well, both on EC and off. Your described situation presupposes that a very specific sex act must be carried out. That's not in the repertoire for a fair number of people. And, if that situation happened, I would suggest moving it off the repertoire for that instance and going at it again another time, when the precautionary staples are available. If that person is even worth their salt and they're not a flake, then there theoretically should be a next time.

 

Yes, treating HIV+ people differently in day to day life is deplorable. As it is deplorable treating anyone differently due to any number of other challenges that person may face.

That said, there is a difference between treating someone with respect in day to day life, and choosing to date that person.

 

It would see, this thread has gravitated more broadly discussing the interplay of relationships between those with HIV and those without, dating or otherwise. I am intrigued by the discussion, others ok expanded it?

 

It's only happened once or twice that someone has informed me that they were POZ. I'm still friends with one of them, however, as I am not emotionally invested in him sex is off the table. I had to admire his honesty.

I don't think I would reject a potential partner who is POZ, but I can't say that I wouldn't either. I am quite honestly a lousy nursemaid, and few can afford 24 hour help. I know I can't. Yes, I'm putting the cart before the horse not really knowing the future, but it is not an unrealistic future. It is also a future that other illnesses bring with them. They, however, are more of a crap shoot. Just as he would be upfront with his status, so would I need to be upfront that I have sympathetic reactions to anyone who vomits. Hell, I can't even change a litter box without gagging.

The sexual limitations would be the least of my worries. There really is no such thing as a limited repertoire, merely a limitation of acts. They are not the same thing.

A betrayal would, however, be devastating. By nature, I'm a monogamous person and find open or polyamorous relationships mystifying. I pass no judgment. If I didn't cheat on my wife, I doubt I would cheat on my husband. This would be a topic for very intense discussion. I, personally, do not believe sex happens by "accident." You know you're open to it as soon as you walk out the door, even if it's just a bit of fantasy. I would rather know ahead of time so it could be discussed than to be humiliated by an affair or a one night stand. But as been pointed out to me on a number of occasions, the gay world doesn't operate in the same fashion as straight relationships. I guess I'd have to work that out once I'm in one.

The very fact that we're having this conversation separates us from the straight world. Although it is a conversation that is needed.

 

I don't think this is exactly apples and oranges.

However, I think that the attached linked article makes for a good read and I think people should pay attention to what it says.

---------- Post added 11th Jun 2015 at 08:33 AM ----------

Yes, it all comes down to this.

 

And I think these are valid concerns. Yes, the drugs some guy is taking might be working today. But what about a year? Ten years? Twenty years? Of course, this is an issue with any incurable, but controlled health issue (cancer that can't be cured, but held in check, heart disease, etc.)

And I have done the nursing thing a couple of times before, including the end of mother's life. It was not easy. At that time, I was in a place where a lot of body functions were something I'd just as soon not think about. Doing nursing care, you suddenly do have to think and deal with those issues. That was not easy, but that was actually easier to deal with than watching the decline of someone you love.

Of course, you can have that problem of watching a friend who has HIV decline. But it is probably easier when you aren't forced into living with the decline 24/7. It's probably easier doing the one visit however often, and then going off and having a busy life elsewhere. When you live with the problem 24/7--like I did--it can become overwhelming.

Can anyone do this without gagging? :lol:

I can't really comment about the "gay world" given that the only part I've had connection with has been EC. That said...it is worth thinking that yes, we can talk about gay men and their relationships in general. But...talking about the average gay man really says nothing about any individual man. You can probably find gay men whose idea of monogamy is having sex with only one guy today. You can probably find men who have had sex with only their partner their during their whole lives.

The conversation is needed. But I do wonder how far the straight world is removed from us. It seems that affairs/one night stands/I stayed late at the office to work on a project, and we suddenly couldn't help ourselves moments occur regardless of sexual orientation. The difference: HIV is probably more of a worry for us. But it can be an issue for straight people. Oh, yes--the other difference: they get worry about the unplanned bundle of joy that might arrive in 9 months.

 

I really wonder if people are responding the way they are because that's the way a person is "supposed" to respond to be aligned with current thought or to be accepted. Would your answer change if those criteria were removed? I'm not convinced that all the answers are as authentic as they can be.

There's the famous saying "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." And some of us can't.

 

I agree with this.

I think it is fear of HIV, more than anything else, that cause me to try to repress my homosexuality. I must be one of the few people to go back in the closet. I was out in my early 20s, in the early 1990s. A fright caused me to panic. I then spent maybe ten years only having sex when drunk, with complete strangers (the most idiotic response possible, of course, but my inhibitions had to be destroyed).

 

Probably not. But when did human beings become rational? I like to say I am, but I know full well that emotion drives me far more than reason. Am I an exception?