Having No Gender

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by imjustaperson, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. Kai LD

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    I find it really hard to define and I'm not sure I can but... I think of myself inside more as a woman than a man and I would prefer to be externally identified as such also. So I am female gendered. I always feel like a put a question mark on that in my mind even when I am pretty darn sure.
     
  2. Yes, I totally agree that gender expression/physical appearance can anywhere from mirror to contradict one's internal sense of gender, for whatever reason.

    The more I realize that every one and every culture has differing ideas of what is masculine and what is feminine, the more I realize how little those words actually have to do with gender as it pertains to people's identities. At heart, they are really just like any other adjectives because inanimate objects can't have genders, since they don't have conscious brains and identities. I think people have the misconception that masculinity/femininity have something to do with maleness/femaleness only because of the roots of the words. Honestly, we don't even need the words "masculine" and "feminine;" "male" and "female" suit just fine. The extra words are a result of humans trying to gender inanimate objects and concepts, which can't really be done.

    If someone proclaims to be a male, but is very gender nonconforming, what significance does gender have, anyway? You could have a man who cross-dresses, wears makeup, and behaves in a very unassuming, gentle way and he could still identify as a man.

    So what is a man? And what is a woman, really, since they don't seem to entail anything specific or predictable? As I understand it, they are just words that people do or don't apply to themselves. Please correct me if I am missing something. I admit that the concept of "gender" seems arbitrary to me, and that words like "personality" "sexual orientation" make a lot more sense.
     
    #22 imjustaperson, Aug 23, 2014
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  3. Nychthemeron

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    The answer to that is an answer I'm trying to find myself.

    To me and to me only, my being male is the desire to have been born male, as well as the desire to transition into being perceived as male at birth.

    In a perfect world, where everyone genders me correctly and does not automatically label me as female, I feel as if I would still want to transition.

    Does that make sense? My mind is telling me that my body is wrong. It doesn't matter if everyone else sees me as female. It still feels wrong.

    Yet, others choose not to transition, even if they identify as male/female. But they're still trans.

    So what's the difference? I don't know, honestly. The only thing you can be certain of is what you feel within yourself, and I'm not exception.
     
  4. I sort of consider myself as transgender, since I don't feel like I am a woman. I feel like a person, plain and simple. My anatomy annoys me since it gets me inaccurate labels like "she," "her," and "woman." Plus, there's no need for my uterus or anything. I like kids but as far as I can tell now I wouldn't want to be a parent, and adoption seems like a perfectly acceptable option if I'm past the age of childbearing (besides, the state of being pregnant is so closely tied to being a woman in my mind that I'd feel like I'm wearing a costume for 9 months).

    Sometimes I just think we should abolish these terms (feminine, masculine, male, female) altogether in favor of simply describing personality, identity, and anatomy. Those things seem too variable and complex to be forced into inadequate vocabulary terms. Even though cisgender people might be considered to have a simpler concept of gender, I'd say it's probably just as confusing as mine.

    If you enjoy being perceived as male, what does that mean to you if the state of being "male" is infinitely variable?

    I wonder to what extent the belief that "gender" exists is a result of nurture, versus nature. While in recent times we have been exposed to ideas that teach any gender can occur in someone of any biological sex, which is a step in the right direction, I think the general, unchallenged consensus is that gender does exist.
     
    #24 imjustaperson, Aug 23, 2014
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  5. Nychthemeron

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    There was a person who was born male, raised as female after he had his penis destroyed during circumcision, but felt like he was a male. He didn't know he was born male. I can't seem to find the story again, but I'm pretty sure it's somewhere. If I find it again, I'll post.

    EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
     
    #25 Nychthemeron, Aug 23, 2014
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  6. So, there was no other indication to him that he was male? He didn't have a "male" name, wasn't given the pronouns he and his? He was raised not knowing what his biological sex was?
     
    #26 imjustaperson, Aug 23, 2014
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  7. Nychthemeron

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    According to the article, anyway.
     
  8. That seems kind of hard to believe. He would've had to be raised under a rock, not knowing what a "boy" or "girl" was and never asking his parents which one he was. I still can't help but suspect that "gender" is merely an illusion society instills in us from the time we are born, on account of our biological sex.
     
  9. Nychthemeron

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    His parents told him the truth when he turned 14.

    (Bad at summarizing things. Better off just reading the article instead of relying on me to summarize it)

    Gender is a social construct, yes, but it's also related to sex. When you think of the male gender, you think of a biological male. When you think of the female gender, you think of a biological female. Would this be different if society was? Probably.

    edit: for clarification, i'm not saying everyone who identifies as something other than their birth sex should transition, because that is up to them.

    But I see nothing wrong with identifying with something that provides you with a sense of security.
     
    #29 Nychthemeron, Aug 23, 2014
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  10. AlexTheGrey

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    I wound up ignoring this thread for a bit, although not intentionally.

    The thing is, gender can be a socially-created thing, while still being a thing. Language is a social creation, but it is no more an illusion than gender (or your lack of it).

    The real problem as I see it is that our society has defined absurdly rigid roles, and tied the concept of gender to sex. So if you are born with female biology, you have gender characteristics and roles picked out for you, and society reacts poorly if you don't hold up to the expectations. And underlying the whole thing is that if someone's biology is ambiguous, we assign one biology or the other to the person at birth, and then further assign gender characteristics and roles. It is just kinda nuts how much conformation is embedded into our behavior as humans.