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gender, identity, rumbling, and hope

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by puretine, Apr 14, 2023.

  1. puretine

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    Hey :slight_smile:


    Lil' list of the agenda of this post : rant about growing up queer, questioning, fear of detransitioning, identity, labels. Hope that helps, it sure does help me to write down and share this.

    Side note : I don't except that anyone comment "duh, ur trans/ur not" bc its not how that works, even if it would be easier, but if you have some common feelings or have had similar path, let me know !

    So, it's been a while since I last wrote a post on this forum. I first joined it when I was a lost teenager, desperate to know about their label on sexuality.
    I'm now 21, a bit less lost in life, more stable mentally, but still uncertain, and now about gender. It's a bit frustrating, because I thought I've spent enough time trying to understand myself and my feelings.

    Tho, I never took into account gender identity. I guess liking girls and being masc when you're afab is a challenge in itself. And sometimes I think that's it, I'm just a gay girl that doesn't fit into gender stereotype, end of the story.

    And I read many stories of queer girls that detransition because they first thought a trans identity could fix everything, and later realized this wasn't the solution. It raises the question of influence, tho I do think that putting the blame on a community for an individual choice is a bit unfair. I don't want to do that, you know, ignore the challenges that come with being a lesbian in a society where femininity is both praised and attacked. And I do think that this narrative is rare, but weaponized because someone did the unthinkable : transgressed a gender line, but decided to get back where they were at first. But could you say this person goes back to who they were ? Why was there this need to transition at a certain point ? To anyone doubting and fearing detransition, its no as scary as it sounds. I recommend the channel of Alia ISMAIL who offers a balanced and thought-through view about her detransition, which is quite refreshing regarding this topic.

    So, yeah, I'm very informed about this topic. For a few years now, I've been following trans content-creators to be informed on trans related issues. I've come far, first from Kalvin Garrah pipeline (ouch) to Sam Collins and now non binary tiktokers. I remember that when I was younger and watched Kalvin, I thought to myself : "He has such a strict view on who's transgender or not that I'm a bit reassured. That couldn't be me, I couldn't be trans. Because he's a transguy, and he knows what being a trans guy is about". I couldn't identify with the experience he described. That let me with a sour feeling, both relieved and disappointed.

    Sure, I never liked my body, but which woman in this society does ? Sure, I'm fascinated with topics about gender, but who isn't ?

    But then it became more deep. I thought I was obsessed, that it was unhealthy. I mean, I didn't feel this way when I consumed every lesbian media available. But with gender, I felt that I didn't have the right to feel so close to the trans community. I've always felt like an intruder. Yet, I'm by no mean fetishizing their pain or their bodies, I'm not a chaser, I don't reduce them to being trans, and don't worry, I've got out of this transmed shit. But here I was, thinking this obsession with gender identity was not sane.

    Because transcending my own gender always felt like a crime to me. Besides, why would I do this ? Why would I alter my body ?

    "My chest is way too big for me to be trans. Top surgery would look so bad on me. I wouldn't be good looking on T. I'm too feminine to ever pass. I enjoy being a woman sometimes"

    Some of my thoughts as I watch trans people thriving and taking a path on affirming their gender. And here I am, feeling so ashamed when my family laughs at me for being "masculine" and "denying who i am" just because I'm a woman (?) with short hair. So if I were trans. Well. I don't even want to beging to imagine what they'll say. And when I express the need for more gender neutrality to my friends, they respect it, but sometimes, they're asking me questions about what I want, if I'm a boy, if I'm still a girl, and when they see that I don't know, or that I do know, i do know that I'm non binary, I can feel that they're judging me, that they're thinking "yeah, right, you're a woman who has short hair, that's it".

    And if its the case, why do I have so many trouble enjoying sexual connexion, because I wish my partner didn't touch my breast ? Why do I get so damn envious of masculine people and get sad when I realize how feminine I am ? Why do I hate feeling the weight of my own chest ? Why do I want to get rid of this hips ? Why do I get sad at my round face ? Is it dysphoria ? Is it dysmorphia ? Is it OCD ? A need for control ?

    All I do know is that it's that I've grown so tired of this same old question. And when I questioned if I could be trans, I started to realize some pain I've been escaping. I'm trying to untangle if my complex relationship with gender as something to do with trans identity, or something else, in therapy. I go through these cylces of : I'm not trans -> god I'm jealous of masculine individuals -> god i think im transmasc-> if I am , i would have so much things to face, is it really worth it ? -> my pain is not big enough -> fuck it im cis and not legitimate
    And repeat.

    I do think its sad that we put so much pressure on trans* individuals, or just exploring individuals. Even by detailling some pretty intense gender-feels here, I still feel like a lost cis girl who's trying to make up an identity. And socially, that's so shameful. "Pff. You thought you were trans. You thought you were edgy, and it was so obvious that you were wrong and just a lesbian that wanted to be different".

    I think people are jealous of others who deem to question what they couldn't begin to question. I think people are jealous of individuals freeing themselves from norms and just being who they are at their core. And that's why they're so bitter when someone question their gender. "It's like you're not sure ? Well you're not. Fuckyou for thinking you were special". Newsflash : being a minority is not special, its exhausting. Yeah, we have a queer culture, yeah, we talk about our identity all of the time. And why is it bothering you, queer people expressing themselves and taking pride in their identity ? Oh, you feel ostraziced ? Mmh, poor honey. Must be hard for you. Can't imagine what it feels like :wink:

    So, yeah, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't feel legitimate in my queer gender identity, but I feel as if I needed to work on this. I have some pretty trans feels, idk if its dysphoria. I also know im really happy about my look (usually serving gay boy realness), and I identify a lot with transmasc people.

    I'm a bit scared to start over a new process, but I think I've built enough trust to get through it. I hope I'll find a community of genderqueer people who'll understand me. In the mean time, I'm building projects and try to be a good person day after day :slight_smile:

    Maybe becoming an adult is understanding that shit is gonna get real again, and again, and that you'll have to face it alone, even if each time, you know yourself a bit more.
    Discovery is a long path. I'm just starting the hike !
     
  2. quebec

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    puretine.....You've touched on a lot of very serious issues here. Like many serious issues, there aren't many easy answers. Everyone has to find the path that works for them and I think that you are on the right road to finding those answers. Unfortunately some of the questions that you raise probably don't have answers or at least don't have easy to find answers. Your doing the right things though...giving serious thought to the things that trouble you as you don't fit neatly into any accepted gender "norm". In reality most of us don't fit into a gender norm, we just accept something that comes close. I applaud you for the effort that you are making in your attempt to understand yourself instead of just accepting what society...even LGBTQ society...acknowledges as "normal". I sincerely hope that your search for understanding results in something that gives you peace.
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  3. chicodeoro

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    Hi Puretine, it sounds to me that instead of listening to other people and the intense NOISE there is about all things trans in 2023, you need to listen to yourself. Give yourself time, cut yourself some slack. Remember that you don't have to have all the answers now. You're young and you have plenty of time to feel your way, gradually, to an identity that's comfortable for you.

    And hang out here more often! There is no noise here, just the comforting sound of LGTBQ+ people trying to help each other.

    Beth x
     
  4. TinyWerewolf

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    Hi there, puretine, trans man here, 22, grew up in the south and living with a family that has been...less than accepting.

    First, I want to say David and Beth both make excellent points. Though I specifically want to touch on part of what Beth said, " the intense noise of all things trans in 2023." I'm sure you've heard the "trans men are self hating lesbians" rhetoric of some people- and on it's face it's scary to hear when you're questioning, but that's where the fear with that one should stop. That argument falls flat on it's face when you use logic. Not all trans men are straight, as I'm sure you know, but how can trans men be self hating lesbians when some of them like men? It's just plain transphobia behind the mask.

    However, I think you're acknowledging something important (that helped me be more sure of myself after my family tried to gaslight me): being trans won't solve all your issues. It may help emotional stress and discomfort in your body, but being trans is really really hard. Some people have it easier than others, but there are some universal difficulties more often than not. Those entail the following: legal inequality, ungodly medical bills and/or waiting lists longer than the Nile river, ostracization from society, persecution by the media (and now the legislature passed/proposed in many states). Now that isn't to scare you whatsoever, but rather I have a point to make- if you're willing to fight through all that to be who you are, don't let anyone tell you that you aren't trans. All of that is why some detransition, and too many succumb to a worse fate. Should you discover you're trans, know you're on a grueling but brave path.

    I think Jammidodger (as he's known on youtube) would be someone to watch, also Noah Finnce, and Alex Bertie- you already watch another great choice, Sam Collins. Jamie helped me kind of figure it out, there were many other events too, but he helped. It also helps me to see other trans people being happy, personally I forget that can be me sometimes with the situation I'm in without such reminders.

    I'll leave you with one thing to try and then ponder on here though, try all the pronouns with someone nonjudgemental. Carefully consider how each one feels in reference to you. Does one make you happy? Stressed? Frustrated? Excited? Just food for thought.
     
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  5. redstatic

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    I'm a trans guy, shy of 21, pre-t. I felt very similarly to you during my teenage years, and it took years of questioning, experimentation and some months of therapy to figure out what I need and want for my life. I spent years trying to answer the 'Am I trans or faking?' question, and I came to the realization that finding an actual answer wouldn't really help me, because it still didn't fully pave down the road in front of me. Let's say I knew for sure I was trans; then what? Transitioning isn't for everyone, there are trans people who choose not to go through it. Some just get a surgery and nothing, some go on hormones for a few months then stop. The only thing that came with the solid answer of 'Yes, I am trans' was some sort of validation, that was basically drilled in my head because of all the transmed shit I watched when I was 16.

    What helped me a ton was figuring out what it is I wanted, ignoring the labels. I started hardcore looking into Testosterone and the changed it would provide, and realised that I wanted everything, and wanted to be seen and exist and navigate the world as a man, and very early on I realised that even if I decide T is not for me, I'd be ok with all the changes - the risk would be 100% worth it for me. Am I trans? Idk, maybe. Do I want T, get top surgery, be seen as a man? Yes, absolutely. Does that make me trans? I guess so - I am a man, the trans part comes with it as a descriptor, but it's not definitory, not in my head at least - I'm a man first, the trans is just,,,,there.

    And of course, asses the risks, just as TinyWerewolf said: is this worth it for you, in your environment? Being trans comes with a hella ton of shit, you need to be ready to deal with that, and keep your ground. And it's not a magical fix to all your problems. For me at least, being pre-t feels like a giant boulder placed upon my shoulders, making everything more difficult to handle. Things will be a bit easier to deal with once I start T because I'll have one less stress tied to me, but otherwise life will still be challenging, because so is life.

    Anywho, this is the video that made everything click better into place. I fully recommend his channel!

    You could also check out this amazing podcast, it also offered some great insight. I could relate to the people there much better than the younglings on youtube :slight_smile: it's a podcast about trans men or transmasc individuals who live/have lived as stealth, and transitioned around the year 2000. Great stuff! https://open.spotify.com/show/6Zr8ORe5Ax8vhZ4WJ5rUMr

    Cheers, and best of luck!
    - Tudor
     
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