1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Father, Husband, not sure about anything else

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by MattieJoy, May 7, 2023.

  1. MattieJoy

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2023
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Family only
    Hi

    I am so scared and confused right now. When asked how I identify myself, the above is all I can come up with. I feel like I don’t know me. I love my wife, we have been together almost 20 years and we have 6 great kids (ages 2-17). I have a successful career and on the surface it looks like the perfect American life. The problem is that I am not sure if I am a man or a woman and sometimes wish I was my wife’s wife instead of husband….

    I am almost 44 and have been crossdressing on and off since I was about 12. I have no recollection prior to that age of wanting to be a girl, I play (notice, not just past tense) with legos and like sci fi, never into sports. I was the awkward and nerdy kid. Home was a traumatic roller coaster. Narcissitic and histrionic mother who left my father when I was 10 and I did not see him again until I was 32. She remarried and did the same to second dad when I was an adult. As a teen, I did anything she told me, I knew deep down it was the best way to avoid being “thrown away.” She would sometimes expose herself, and somehow instead of a typical Oedipal response I more started fantasizing of being like her…. Luckily she has been out of my life for the past 12 years and therapy has helped me be ok with that.

    As I said, married almost 20 years. My wife is truly my best friend. She knows I Crossdress, and for the longest time every I thought it was all a sexual kink. She accommodated this in the bedroom for 15 years, our sex life was one of doing something for each other. But the female aspect of my sexuality grew. I would want to hear her say “It’s ok to be a woman” and would like to hear fantasies of us together as woman. I became sexually excited from stories that would just involve being woman doing things like shopping or talking or normal, non sexual activities. I would want to hear about being pregnant. I would even want to hear about having a period when she would have a period. I would then climax and things would subside.

    Something started to give about 2 years ago. I started dressing when alone for periods of time and it scared me. I became withdrawn (mind you, a baby in the house who did not sleep and I tried to compensate my guilt by taking over the night care and becoming sleep deprived did not help). Then I blurted out one day to her “Do you think I am trans?” She became scared, her immediate response was that she knew life was too perfect and something would give to ruin it, that she could never be with a woman and that it would be over. That it would be devastating for her to then see me as a woman with another women, knowing she could never be that other woman. I backpedaled fast, told her I was not thinking I was, just asking if she thought I was from something she had said a few days earlier. I convinced her I was not (and also myself for a while). After that, I was unable to Crossdress in front of her (not her doing, but mine, I saw the aversion in her eyes that I never picked up on before). I started therapy and worked through some childhood trauma. My wife said she was ok with the crossdressing, but asked if it could be something I do in private now.

    I felt ok with this at first, but things started to give. Sex has become harder for me. At first I thought it was fear of getting her pregnant (we both fully agree we are done having kids, the last was a COVID last chance situation), so I got snipped, but still with problems. I think it is because I am seen as a man in the bedroom, and I don’t know how to be, or don’t like to be, or don’t want to be, or don’t enjoy it, or just that I don’t know.

    Sometimes my wife will ask “are you a man?” Or “what are you?” As a way to getting reassured. I just want to answer “I am me” or “I don’t know’ or “Sometimes I want to be a woman but I am unsure.” But I don’t, I can’t stand hurting her.

    There are days where I think about what life would be if I was a woman. Part of me feels I would want to experiment or feel it out more if I knew it would be as her wife, but I also feel I would rather be male and her husband then being a woman without her. I have spend years running from even asking the question.

    I have started with a new therapist, she is the first I have ever truly started to open up with. Sessions are over zoom, which is amazing. I am very male looking (190 lb, 6’ tall, beard) and have even done a few sessions in female attire (she did not laugh at me and she made me feel like a person). My wife will start seeing her in a few weeks, as well. I both look forward to sessions and am scared from them.

    I think I wrote this more for myself, not sure if anyone would read it even. If you did, thanks for listening.
     
    DragonChaser likes this.
  2. Wanderlost

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2023
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    Neverland
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Hi, I read it. It sounds like you are genderfluid. You never mentioned dysphoria or other things that a transwoman might feel or encounter, such as wanting to transition. It sounds like you like to be treated as a woman at times, but are still okay with being seen as a father. Wanting to be a wife to your wife is the most revealing part of this I think, even more so than the crossdressing. We often hear things like, "he's in touch with his feminine side." I often wonder if in more extreme cases that means a man is in fact genderfluid or genderqueer. There are a few others here that would likely give you better insight, even though I know you're not necessarily asking for answers. But you did reach out, and it's a beginning. I hope your wife going to therapy helps her cope with some of these issues as well.
     
    xfemmelesbian and DragonChaser like this.
  3. chicodeoro

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2020
    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    961
    Location:
    London
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    All but family
    Hi Celeste, if your question is 'what gender am I?' then I'm not sure I can give you a glib answer just like that. It sounds like you need to feel your way to an answer, and work out what in your heart of hearts you really want. Therapy sounds like a really good idea too.

    A lot of what you have written had me nodding in recognition. I'm 53 and only had my revelation about my gender three years ago. For most of my life I've been in denial, on the surface assuming I was male when deep down inside I had yearned to be a girl since the age of 6. In my case my sexuality and gender had wrapped themselves around each other to the point they were completely tangled and I was utterly confused.

    When I was in a relationship with a woman, I was happy. I was being 'male' successfully. Yippee! And yet I had this deep dark secret, which I assumed for decades was 'just' a fetish. I never mentioned it to any of my girlfriends for fear of having the same reaction that you've had from your wife. I knew it would completely kibosh my lovely life as a straight hetero male.

    Then 2020 happened. My partner died suddenly. Weeks later lockdown started. I was alone and with no other company than the deep dark truth. I knew I couldn't run from it any more.

    I say all this to say that there are similarities in our situations. There are also huge differences.

    This is an unbelievably delicate and difficult situation. All I would say is try to proceed carefully, with love and kindness as a guides. It sounds like you need to work out the 'what am I?' bit first, but of course that's of very little immediate use to a partner who's fearful her whole world is about to be turned upside down.

    Good luck though, and do let us know what happens next for you!

    Hugs, Beth x
     
  4. MattieJoy

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2023
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Family only
    Hi

    thank you wanderlust and Beth. Your words are thoughtful and helpful. I appreciate it!
     
    DragonChaser and Wanderlost like this.
  5. DragonChaser

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2021
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    348
    Location:
    US
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I read it, as well, and frankly you're dealing with a really difficult crossroads right now. It's one I see all too often, to be honest; the choice between self-actualizing or assimilating to avoid jeopardizing your family. There is never any easy answer, and each decision carries its own consequences.

    The truth of the matter is this kind of thing doesn't "go away." You either map its boundaries, or you get miserable. Your spouse, unfortunately, has dropped a massive roadblock in your path; a threat of unilateral rejection. It's a tough situation and one I would say indicates this person does not really love you, but rather their current conception of you and they very much want you to stay that person.

    That happens in a lot of marriages; even though people change all the time, an expectation that someone will always be the same person pervades the culture of marriage. It's very unhealthy, though that does nothing to change the reality of those expectations.

    I also notice a lot of attempts to somehow rationalize your burgeoning transgenderism, and I find that a bit worrying. It seems like you're pathologizing it in order to make it something you can "treat" so you can keep the same relationship with your spouse. You're even hiding it away at her behest, like it's a shameful disease instead of a healthy and normal act of self-expression.

    I don't judge when I say this, either. I just fear you're going to keep rejecting this and regret not accepting yourself now. There's a cost to being yourself sometimes, I know, but there's a greater cost to denying yourself. If someone truly loved you, they'd accept that and try to support you, not say "Keep it to yourself" and "I'd never love you if you were like that."

    One woman's two cents, anyway. I wish you luck in navigating this, regardless, and I genuinely hope things resolve for the best.
     
  6. quebec

    Moderator Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,208
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Location:
    U.S.
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Celeste.....Hello and a great big LGBTQIA+ welcome to Empty Closets! :old_smile: I can remember the first post that I made on EC. I was desperate for help and I got the help that night that I so needed. I hope that we can help you in the same way that I received help. The most important thing to remember about Empty Closets is that we do care about you! We're very glad that you found us here on EC and hope that we can answer questions, give you support and provide a place to vent (as long as it's not violent!) :old_big_grin: when that becomes necessary!

    *****There are 18 different sub-forums here that you can check out and join in the conversations or start your own thread/conversation. When I first joined Empty Closets I was in need of a lot of support and encouragement and I found it here…EC is a safe place. I hope that you'll find good things here too! Folks here will talk to you and share...you don't have to be afraid of asking questions...we're glad to have you! Empty Closets is all about making connections and giving LGBT folks a voice when they otherwise don't have one in their day-to-day lives. I can see that you have already found the forum that is titled "Gender Identity and Expression”, and I know there are people there who have dealt with some of the same kind of issues that could be challenging you...that's a great second step...your first step was finding and joining Empty Closets! :old_smile: I'm sure that you have watched trans youtubers...but just in case, here are some favorites of mine that you might like: MtF: Victoria Rose, Riley J. Dennis, Renna Williams, Robin jaspers, Gigi Gorgeous. It's great that you are talking with a therapist...finding a therapist that works with the LGBTQ Family was one of the best decisions that I ever made! He has helped me so much over the several years that I've been talking with him. There are just some things that we can not "fix" by ourselves. I broke my leg a few years ago and I sure didn't hesitate to go to the hospital, so I always wonder why so many people won't go see a therapist when they are fighting a losing battle with emotional issues! :old_frown: You are taking the right path and I wish you the very best. Stay with us here on EC...you are a part of our wonderful LGBTQ Family and we do care...very much! :old_cool:

    Some info on how to navigate EC:
    When you have made at least 10 posts on various threads you will be able to post messages on a member's Profile Page. Just click on a member's Avatar Picture and then click on "Profile Page" in the dialogue box that pops up. You'll then be on their Profile Page and there will be a box that says: "Write Something" When you have been on EC for a few weeks and have made at least 50 posts on various forums, you can apply for Full Membership. A Full Member can send Private Messages (PM) to other Full Members and share personal contact info. Right now you can only send a PM to a Staff Member as that is always possible. Here is a quote from the Full Membership information forum: :old_cool:

    *****To be eligible you must be a member of Empty Closets for a minimum of two weeks, and have a minimum of 50 posts. These posts must be across numerous forums (Fun & Games does not contribute to post count), and consistently posted across a minimum of two weeks. You wouldn't be eligible, for example, if you registered, had no activity for two weeks, and then returned to post 50 times on your 14th day of membership.

    *****Well, as I said, we're very glad you found us! :old_rolleyes: If you have any questions at all, you can always send me a Private Message.

    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
    xfemmelesbian and DragonChaser like this.
  7. MattieJoy

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2023
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Family only
    Hi all

    What a roller coaster the past two weeks have been. I have come out as a trans woman!!

    Sometimes my wife would ask “are you a man?” or “what are you?” As a way to getting reassured. The other night, she asked "Are you trans?" Answer "I don' know" and "I don't want to be." but after a long talk, the answer was YES. I told her everything, about how I don't want to be trans but I can't go through the day, I can't even go a few minutes, without wanting to be a woman. I have so much gender envy, and it is not when I see some beautiful young woman. My heart aches when I see 40ish year old normal women living normal lives. Why can't that be me?

    I have now realized the extent of my dysphoria. I am not a man and the thought of being one is difficult.

    She says we can be best friends, she is my best friend in the world, but can only see herself married to a man. I want to be kind, I want to be loving, it is so hard. I am both elated inside and devastated inside, while her world crumbles. Part of me wants to take things slow, which my therapist recommends, but my wife is more the "rip the bandaid off fast" type of person. We both don't know how things will look after. She is very open minded otherwise. We have a daughter who is pansexual, we have both always been more than accepting. I believe her when she says in the end we will still be best friends and need to find a way to be in each others lives and be parents to our kids. She sees Matt dying. Staying as Matt is a death for me, though (I would never do it, but the other day I had a bottle of ativan in my hand and so wanted to take them all to fall asleep and not wake up).

    The other day, before this, when we where talking, I asked her for some of her thoughts about me. Though caring and kind, I have a grumpy side. My baseline mood is more quite and reserved, I don't smile much. I have depression and anxiety and have been on meds for years. I always thought something inside me was killed due to the abuse of my childhood. In therapy, it turns out that some of the abuse was because of my true nature and it was partially killed off in me.

    I came out to 2 people this week. One was my best friend in medical school 20 years ago. We hardly talk now. She is a lesbian, and was one of my dearest friends. She was not surprised, she even said that it explains how I am the only "male" friend she has ever had. I wish I could have been brave enough to tell her about this side of me when we where younger. The other is my slightly younger sister, she is a modern orthodox Jew and we had a rough childhood relationship. I was just visiting her 2 weeks ago. We get along now, she is my closest sibling now. She was so kind and loving on the phone, and she too was not overly surprised.

    today we talked with our two oldest daughters, now almost 18 and 16. It is my wife and I separating that scares them most, they love me and where so amazing. We have decided that, once I start to show and come out publicly, I will move to the basement. Ironic that we where just finishing putting in a small man cave.

    The flood gates have opened. I wish I could close them and be the husband my wife and I envisioned and the couple that would grow old together. If she could accept me as a woman, I would want to be her wife, but I can no longer continue to live this lie and will be ok if we can be co parents and best friends.

    Thank you for listening,

    Madison Celeste

    (still trying out some names, but I think I like this. Celeste was the name I had envisioned as a kid but feel it is too childish for a 44 year old woman so thought to use it for a middle name. I like Madison because I can then be Maddie, which is close to Matt)
     
  8. chicodeoro

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2020
    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    961
    Location:
    London
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    All but family
    Hey Celeste*, I have a big smile on my face as I read this. Congratulations on accepting yourself. In many ways, it is the hardest part. People who are not in our position don't understand that it is not something we choose on a whim. Like me, it sounds like you have spent decades trying to fit yourself into a societal role denoted 'male' and it hasn't worked. Why? Because you're a girl and always have been.

    I'm excited for you, because your adventure is just beginning. You are going to be experiencing the sweet joy of coming out and being accepted for who you really are. And gender euphoria! Oh I don't want to say too much - but happy days are coming for you!

    It sounds like your wife is a kind understanding woman and I really hope you can find a way to navigate through this together.

    Meanwhile, do stay around on EC. There are a lot of kind supportive people on here from all over the world. All of us trans folk are attempting to negotiate our respective paths towards a better life against the backdrop of a massive global backlash against us. But you don't have to be alone on that journey. We're all here for you.

    Big hugs, Beth xx

    * For what it's worth, I think Celeste is a fine name for a middle age woman.
     
    Wanderlost and Rayland like this.
  9. MattieJoy

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2023
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Family only
    Hi Beth

    Your word are making me cry :slight_smile:

    You are right, K is so kind and caring. It is hard because she is the only person to ever love Matt. The problem is, I don’t. This feeling has come over me of wanting to be supportive for her and listen and be there to the best I can while being true to myself. I have never been me before this. I already find myself being there for her in ways I never could be as a husband. In the past, I always had ulterior motives and thoughts of myself. I could never just act out of selflessness. If it means being her BFF while she moves on later, that is what therapy is for :slight_smile:. Even though I give up being a husband and that dream of being her wife will likely never happen, we are both determined to help me continue to be Aba (dad in Hebrew). And I feel I will be a better parent and friend.

    My 15 year old was so cute. When she was little, she would call be Abie and asked if, when the time comes, she can call me that again. It made me cry (I have cried more in the past week than I have in a lifetime).

    Thank you

    Maddie C
     
  10. xfemmelesbian

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2023
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    153
    Location:
    England, UK
    Gender:
    Female (cis)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Congratulations Maddie! (I would agree with Beth that Celeste is a perfectly fine name for a middle aged woman and I think it’s a beautiful name by the way). I read your entire story in all of these posts and I am so happy for you!

    I am not trans myself so I apologise if I am saying the wrong things, but I am so excited for you to be able to live your life as the magnificent woman you are. Your wife sounds like she is very understanding which is amazing. I am also very happy to hear how accepting and loving your children were.

    Again, I am so excited for you and very very proud of you for embracing your identity.

    My name is Loz by the way! :slight_smile:
     
    chicodeoro and Wanderlost like this.
  11. Wanderlost

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2023
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    Neverland
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    This thread is turning me into an emotional mess, but in a good way. Such a beautiful story and outcome, and such thoughtful words of encouragement by everyone. I know there will be bumps in the path ahead, Your wife might have some emotional trauma to get through and she will need your love and support. But as you yourself said, maybe you will be able to give her a more genuine emotional support than you have in the past because it's from the real you instead of a man you were pretending to be. As Beth said, the hardest part is behind you! *hugs*
     
    #11 Wanderlost, May 21, 2023
    Last edited: May 21, 2023
    xfemmelesbian and chicodeoro like this.
  12. quebec

    Moderator Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,208
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Location:
    U.S.
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Celeste.....What you are going through is tough and you are doing an amazing job of it. I know the feeling of despair that can overcome you...I was ready to take a entire bottle of Percocet the night that I chose instead to come out here on Empty Closets. The wonderful people here on EC helped me through that night and I will always be grateful. There is so much that we would have missed and so many people who would have missed us if we had gone through with that plan. Sometimes the future just looks black but that is just not true! :old_smile: Things will change but that doesn't mean that they will be worse. Finally accepting that I am and always have been gay was the one of the biggest changes in my life...and I have been better for it. I think that the same thing is happening to you. Understanding and accepting who you really are looks to be the path to a happier life than you've ever had before! :old_big_grin: I am happy for you and hope that you and your family will be able to work out a way of living and accepting each other that will draw you closer together! Please keep us updated on how things work out...remember you are a part of our wonderful LGBTQ Family and we do care...a lot! :old_rolleyes:
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  13. MattieJoy

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2023
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Family only
    Hi all

    Wanderlost, I shared your amazing comment with K. It brought us both some tears. I just wanted to thank everyone, it helps knowing I am not alone :slight_smile:

    thank you

    Maddie Celeste
     
    Wanderlost and xfemmelesbian like this.