Election Day

I just got the message from Joe Solmonese, head of HRC. I just can't believe it happened again....Thank God I live in Canada...

 

Well, I've calmed down quite a bit from earlier.I'm still pissed though. However, when I go to work later and if people bring in straight wedding photos, (I work in a photo department) that will just be like salt on the wound.

I love that you quoted that Harvey Milk EM68. I really look up to Harvey. I think a new slogan for me to follow would be WWHD (What Would Harvey Do?) I'm pretty scared to come out to the rest of my family beyond my parents. Maybe I should bite the bullet. I'm out to pretty much everybody at work, which is nice, and makes the work environment far more comfortable. Of the work people I'm not out to, two of them are newer employees whom I just haven't spoken to all that much, and the other two may not like it much, but oh well. We all have to work together, don't we?

I'm still upset over what happened in Maine. I have a feeling I'll be upset for a very long time. But I think we should turn our anger into action. Maybe we should focus on how to do that.

 

Honestly, you guys all really need to chill out and stop being all mopey and shit. You honestly expected this to pass? I understand that you may have these idealist views of how the world will be a better place and everything, but not everyone shares that.

This is the best post in here so far, because Jason's completely right. If you want big change in this country, we're going to need a president who's going to be willing to die for his country. Sure, Lincoln may have used the whole abolition of slavery thing for other reasons, but he still did it regardless, and later on he was assassinated. People aren't all up in arms about this all over America. The only real concentrations of Same-Sex Marriage support is in the cities, and that doesn't include the population of the rest of the state at all. They're very different.

If this is going to happen, it will probably have to be an amendment into the Constitution honestly, and that will take TIME to do. No popular vote is ever going to pass (as seen in the "Liberal state of California" last year).

And don't call these people bad, the ones who are voting no, they're not bad. They're uneducated. It isn't their fault. So y'all should calm the fuck down instead of crying a river every time a vote fails. Politics don't give a damn about your tears. Sorry to be blunt.

EDIT: Also, I understand you want your rights, your right to marry your loved one, and to be equal to every other heterosexual couple out there. I want those rights too. Of course it isn't cool that we don't have these Civil Rights, but that just doesn't cut it. "It's not fair!" sounds like a Kindergärtner, and they won't care for that. We have to stop being sore losers about everything, and be HAPPY that there was even a vote on this in the first place. THINK ABOUT THAT.

 

Yay Edward!

 

Really, the only reason Lincoln was able to free the slaves is because they were in the middle of a war and it was an executive order. Or something along those lines, I hate politics almost as much as I hate history.

I also think you're being too harsh towards the people being upset about this: losing one's faith in humanity isn't an easy process.

 

That was the point of my posting earlier. We are not going to change the world overnight but there are small things we can do. I work at a car dealership which has a number of homophobic people. On more than one occcasion people have made fun of the fact that we have gay marrige in Massachusetts. If anyone says anything about it anymore I am going to say something and not put up with it.

 

It was an excellent point you made, EM68. And I wish you well at your job. Hopefully everything goes good for you. I understand being around homophobic people at work. I've had customers say some really homophobic stuff before. I usually just rollmy eyes, and ignore them. However, I had a customer a few weeks ago returning a case she had bought for her husband. She said that her husband said "Ugh, I don't wanna look all gay with that stupid shit." It was the end of the day, and I don't know why really, but I stood up for myself a little, in a non-confrontational way, saying that I'm gay, and that was a little offensive to me, in a calm and nice way of course. She apologized to me, and said she doesn't feel like her husband and gay people are awesome. We had a friendly little chat after that. She was one of my nicer customers that day.

Oh, and Surferdude420 made a good point, but it felt a little harsh. I think alot of us just need to be pissed off and/or sad just at least for today.

 

At least I still have the right to feel resentful for this state for at least a day.

I hope the children are happy.

 

They may have won this time, but they cant win all the damn time! *shakes fist*

 

I hope you realize that just because someone votes no, doesn't make them homophobic. My dad is completely fine and accepting of me, but he doesn't believe in gay marriage. I don't try and change his opinion, because I find that horrifically rude.

 

Of course, and just because someone doesn't think women deserve equal pay, it doesn't mean they're sexist, I mean, I'm sure people who believe that love their wives and daughters.

Actions speak much louder than words.

 

Dont forget that one judge who denied that couple marriage because they were interacial. He wasent racist or prejudice, he just didn't believe in interraical marriage. nothing wrong with that. You need to talk to your pappy.

 

If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at the 70% of the electorate that stayed home yesterday instead of casting their vote.

And specifically, be mad at the gay organizations that are poorly organized and can never seem to turn out the vote.

And if you're mad, then get out there and do something about it.

Just one note that often gets over looked in the Emancipation Proclamation. Lincoln didn't free slaves in the proclamation. He only free slaves in the states that had rebelled against the Union (and which were therefore no longer part of the US).

The 13th amendment passed by the Senate in 1865 abolished involuntary servitude in all forms. Interestingly enough, Mississippi was the last state to ratify the amendment on in 1995- 130 years after it passed the Senate.

 

Exactly ^ and even then, that didn't make African-Americans equal at all, and it wasn't until the 60s that they actually got laws that Desegregated the population among other things. (Also the 14th Amendment back in 1868). If you want Equality, it takes time, and generations, and education.

 

I agree with the above two.

Homophobia can mean a lot of things. If you dont "believe" in gay marriage, you have an issue with two men or women being equal to a man and a woman, and that i believe is a form of homophobia. There is no logical reason for someone who is not homophobic to reject gay marriage. There is no logical reason for someone who IS homophobic to reject gay marriage!

I agree with you that you dont have to try and change his opinion, and i agree that he still loves you. In time you might try and nudge him towards changing his opinion, however. THATS how gay marriage is going to be legal. Its going to take gay people making it clear to straight people that you have to vote for gay marriage because its our human right to have it.

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it sounds like you want to give up joey and thats how things dont get done, period. Sure it takes time, and we should all be aware of that, but we should not have the mindset that its going to take a very long amount of time or generations of change. As soon as you start thinking you cant change anything today, you give up till tomorrow. The thing is though, tomorrow will never come because it will always be today. Always later, never now. You have to believe you can change the world today and go out and try to be that change yourself. Then even if it does take a long amount of time or generations of change, and im not saying it wont, your at least not accepting that, your trying to change that reality.

Never accept defeat and you will not be truly defeated. This is the mindset we must go into the battle with.

 

A good example would be the 15th amendment that said that voting rights could not be restricted based upon race or prior history as a slave.

That passed in 1870.

In the 1960s, the civil rights protestors took to the streets in protest because- 90 years later- blacks were still discriminated against at the polling place.

What changed?

For one thing, a lot of white people decided that it was wrong.

Another reason is that black people got organized. Black churches and organizations like the NAACP made it an issue.

And finally, black people got pissed off. There were organized non-violent protests. But there were also a lot of violent protests. And it got ugly for a while.

But in the end, they won and the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.

I suspect the same process will happen on this issue.

We can already see the changes in society where there is a new generation of people who have grown up knowing gay people, seeing gay relationships in movies and on television and who believe that gay people should be equal to straight people when it comes to marriage rights.

What is lacking is organization on the part of gay people. The initiative in California is an example of how poorly organized gay organizations are when it comes to telling people why gay marriage is about equality and fairness...and poorly organized when it comes to getting people to vote on these issues.

And gay people just aren't pissed off enough to force changes in the law (or to get to polling places to vote on important issues).

 

I think that not only will it take time but also money. The Catholic church donated $500,000 and NOM donated $1,500,000. One thing that pisses me off is churches donating money to discriminate at a time there are people homeless and going hungry.

As far as origination from what I read and heard is the YES campaign was very organized and took a number of lessons from CA to Maine.

 

oh god... someone twilighted the issue!!!!

silly pweeepoles, there are no homogays in twilight... just like there are no brains in twilight!!!

I still think that the fact that we really did get close (wasnt it lik 2.5% or something?) is still worth celebrating. ten years ago, would we have gotten that close?

 

The Maine Question 1 opposition groups (i.e. pro-marriage equality) were better and the voter turnout was something in the 60% range which is amazing for an off-year election. The turnout in my state on Tuesday was 9% to give you a comparison.

But this was something on the order of the 41st state to pass an anti-gay marriage amendment. Overall, that's a pathetic statistic.

If the churches donated that much money to the anti-gay marriages causes, their non-profit status should be called into question.