Don't feel I fit in the lgbt community? (Rant)

I'm the same way. I can't stand the 'queer community' at large because I'm not interested in the politics, and I don't want to be 'proud to be different'. I see myself as a straight person who is exclusively attracted to the same sex- basically normal, blends in well, and doesn't make a fuss about it.

I understand why others feel the opposite way though. Lifelong discrimination and oppression has made people want to be political and loud about it, but It's gone a bit over the top in recent years. All the fuss about how proud we should be, all of the ridiculous labels, the push for inclusivity, people arguing who we should and shouldn't date, I'm tired of it.

And sometimes as a lesbian it gets so radical that the community doesn't feel like a safe place at times. That being exclusively gay makes me not inclusive or radical enough anymore, that I'm sexist or transphobic for not being interested in touching penises, that being bi or pan is just 'more open-minded'. Or even other gay people being SO obsessed with their sexuality, that they question mine if I like a male character or a straight couple in fiction. It's just too much and if I wanted that I'd talk to any redneck homophobe straight person.

Hell, A lot of the time I just prefer to only talk to straight people since they're just people who don't talk about their sexuality and gender 24/7. My sexuality doesn't define me and It's annoying when It's the only topic of conversation.

 

Short answer: You don't have to participate if you don't want to. Don't want to be political? Cool. Don't want to go to pride parades? Cool. Do your thing. The gay council won't be coming after you. You are not required to participate.

Long answer: You have the privilege to not care about any of it. You have the privilege to sit at home and not think about LGBT rights because there will be other people fighting for them. Other people will pass laws to make it illegal to be fired for being LGBT, other people will make sure that trans people of color wills top being killed, other people will do the work.

Also, keep in mind where you are posting. This forum is part of the LGBT community. It wouldn't exist if people didn't have a need to seek their own in order to talk about problems that only other LGBT can truly understand and empathize with.

If you didn't need the LGBT community, you wouldn't be on here. Your main problem is that other people living their lives makes you uncomfortable because you feel it takes your own humanity and rights away.

Don't get involved, but also don't complain about how other people are dealing with their own realities.

 

Agreed. While gay pride events are important during, for example, a ban on gay marriage or when a company discriminates against LGBTQ employees, it's really unnecessary in any other situation. It can (possibly) help in the coming out process, but after that it's time to stop worrying whether people accept you or not. What are we trying to prove?
And besides, the mainstream should celebrate what peopld do, what we bring to the world, or what we do for others rather than a single factor of our private lives.

Just remembered a quote by Jeanette Winterson:
"I am a writer who happens to love women. I am not a lesbian who happens to write."

 

Like the quote.

I think for where I live and in my little bubble of childhood innocence, I don't get it either. I've always expressed how much I love the same-sex, since the age of seven when I first met this same-sex person who I loved [and 10 years later still kind of do]. The rest of the UK kind of caught up with my innocence and now I talk about people of the same-sex I love without saying "oh, yes, I'm bi" - no, I just talk about who I like and it's fine. Whatever.

However, I get that the rest of the world isn't like that. There's still people being persecuted and killed and that's wrong. I think an individual can retain the right to dislike homosexuality ... as long as they don't abuse people if they are [and keeping their opinion to themselves unless in an opinion group would be ideal]. So until the rest of the world catches up to the UK, which apart from some individuals the law is accepting and people who do abuse go to jail/fined, then I think I'll fight for the equal rights of sexuality. However, I don't necessarily need to be in the LGBT movement for that, but it does help.

Anyway, that's what I think.

 

It's all very nice to talk about how 'the mainstream' or some other variant term for society should behave, but since they demonstrably don't behave that way, it also doesn't mean much. People have been and are being fired, evicted, beaten, and sometimes killed for their sexuality or gender identity and it's mainly straight people doing it. This is a fact.

The number of rights and protections that LGBT people have has increased over the years, and quite rapidly in recent times. This is due to a lot of people working very hard to get them, often in conflict with various straights and straight organizations that are against this. Part of that fight has involved refusing to be either invisible or ashamed of who and what we are. Pride events are a part of that as well as a chance to celebrate who we are and just have a good time. This is a fact.

This topic comes up repeatedly on this forum, usually around Pride season, but sometimes just in general. Once you strip away the high minded language, it often seems that the core of what is really being said is either:

a) 'If only those damn 'out and proud' people and their Pride events would disappear, I could settle comfortably into the closet with no one ever suspecting I'm anything other than straight.'

b) 'If we just act sufficiently submissive and pitiful and ashamed maybe the straight people will like us. Or at least only pity us as if we are afflicted by some sort of disease and so treat us nicer.'

Sorry, but I'll take 'out and proud' over 'closeted and ashamed' any day. Certainly straights don't go around hiding their sexuality (look around you - modern Western society is up to its collective armpits in a sea of straight sex) nor do they treat it as something to be ashamed of or hidden away. Why should we have to be any different?

If you don't want to go to Pride or fight for LGBT rights and causes - well, no one is going to put a gun to your head and force you. But realize that whatever rights and protections you have, or may ever exercise in your life as a non-straight person came about due to the efforts of the people you wish didn't exist (and somehow I doubt you'll turn down those legal protections or rights if the situation ever comes up). And by not only disdaining these things but actively wishing they would go away - you show yourself as no different than the straights who actively despise and oppose us.

 

to be honest i'm uncomforable of the whole gay pride scene i don't really understand it ether

 

I guess I'm somewhere in the centre. I don't feel the need, or want, to shout my sexuality to the world. I want it not to be a big deal, just as it isn't for a straight person.
On the other hand, I'm in Australia, where we still have to fight for our rights. Where we can't marry, where we are facing a plebiscite that will undoubtably turn very nasty and allow the homophobes to have free reign. Where the right of our children to feel safe at school is being questioned.
So, while I don't take part in pride events, there is still a need for me to be aware of what is happening to gay rights here, and be willing to speak out.
And I want to right to marry. I want others to have that right.

So, I don't yell or scream, I don't hide either.

And I'm looking forward to the day when there is no need for a closet.

 

I'm not attending prides but I have a close circle of lgbt people (and some more "open minded" friends). I feel better. Because its those people who won't look at the labels and just treat me normal. I could have pass as hetero (mostly relationships with males) and I didn't scream out I'm bi because I had no girlfriend at that time but had men and often talked about that. But every time there were saying bad things about lgbt people I hurt inside. I argued without disclosing my labels. You can't say that about other people, there is no difference, they love the same. I feel bad for not saying it out loud. When I told my colleagues at work that I argued with my best friend, suddenly I heard "she's a stupid les". But her being les didn't have anything to do with it. We argued on what the colleague said but apparently for some reason it was a very important thing. No "she's just an idiot" when you say about any straight idiot. It' "idiot les/gay".

I wasn't open about all things but that's gonna change. I'm not ashamed of whoever I am nor who I like but I'm not open either. But it's a lie. So I'm gonna go to pride even if I tell everybody that loving the same sex or identifying with another gender doesn't make us different. We're the same. Yes. But it won't change a bit unless we're more out about this.

How are catholics or others different from people of other religions? Ehy do they celebrate openly, in the streets showing off and takjng their pride in religion? Shouldn't it be left in private, who cares if you're catholic or pagan yet people celebrate those. Yes, I'm pagan and I'm no different from my catholic friend when it comes to most basic stuff but yet... I'm different, other values and outlook on life tho we agree on live and let live the others.

 

You keep saying that your sexuality does not define you as a person. But then you turn around and say that people who go to/enjoy Pride events are letting their sexuality define them as a person and that for this reason there should be no Pride events. This pops up here from time to time along with the people who go to gay bars, don't enjoy them, and then start making statements about how the people who do enjoy them are letting their sexuality define them.

The truth of the matter is that you know next to nothing about the people attending either Pride or gay bars and you certainly don't know enough about them to say how they are defining themselves one way or another. At best all you can say is that they are possibly defining themselves based on their sexuality to some degree and for the period of time that they are attending Pride or the bar or whatever.

If somebody is of Greek heritage and attends an annual Greek festival, or is Christian and goes to church every Sunday (or wears a crucifix), you probably aren't going to immediately jump to the conclusion that they are letting their heritage or their religion define everything about them all the time and that Greek festivals or church services or Christian symbols displayed by individuals should be eliminated because of this. Instead, you are probably going to assume that these things are a part of their life, but that you don't know how much and that, based on general experience, there is most likely a lot more that makes them up as a person than what they do at an annual (or even a weekly) event.

So why aren't you extending that same courtesy/lack of judgement to people who go to Pride (or bars, or other LGBT stuff)? Because sex is involved? Because a chunk of straight society has conditioned you to think that sex and sexuality are so special that, regardless of any other factors, doing anything that acknowledges it means that you are defining your whole existence by it?

For that matter, what makes you think you have the right to judge other people in this area, let alone try to dictate what they do with their time?

Coming at this from another direction, 'Straight Pride' is an ongoing event 365 days a year that surrounds us all. Yet I don't hear you complaining about that. Why is that, exactly?

You say you don't want to be defined by your sexuality. Yet you presume that you have the knowledge to define the sexuality of a bunch of other people based on an insignificant amount of data and then to go on to state what they should or should not be doing with their time instead.

This is essentially the same logic that some homophobes use to say there should not be Pride events.

Todd

 

Wow, some rather harsh responses.

MerBer, I think I get what you're saying. I went to one Pride event with my partner, and while it was nice to be able to wander around the festival holding hands and not get a second glance for it, it was also way over the top for both our tastes. If you want to dress in wild drag, or basically nothing at all, I really couldn't care less. Do what makes you happy. If you want to hang around in a mosh pit with hundreds of other guys gawking at go-go boys in wild costumes and dancing your ass off, I hope you have a great time. It's not me, but hey, have fun however you want to have fun. But if you want to hold a grand parade complete with all of the above, and floats adored with condoms and neon dildos and label it "gay pride", don't expect me to be embrace it as a representation of who I am, because it's not. However, that is EXACTLY what a bunch of the straight people seeing that parade will do, and they won't see it as a bunch of gay people letting their hair down one day out of the year. They'll see it as a bunch of flamboyant weirdos who kind of creep them out, and BOOM, a stereotype is instantly perpetuated. I'm interested in being seen as who I am, ALL of who I am, rather than being defined by how the most vocal and flamboyant members of the LGBT community behave when they have their "party face" on. I'm not interested in judging peoples' behavior, but I'm also not interested in BEING judged by THEIR behavior.

One of the reasons I went into the closet years ago was because I didn't feel like I'd be accepted by what I saw as the stereotypical LGBT community at the time, and now that I'm finally out, I still don't feel like the majority of what I see referred to here on EC as "The LGBT Community" and its attitudes represent me or the way I live and act and believe. There may not be an official "gay council" or playbook, but it often feels that way, particularly if your life doesn't quite mesh with what seems to be expected.

I'm a Catholic but if I say so, particularly to other people in what's considered the "LGBT community", I'm immediately pigeonholed into being some kind of intolerant self-loathing Christian wacko who thinks all gay people should be celibate and/or burn in Hell, which definitely isn't the case, and it's also not representative of the majority of Catholics I know. I'm largely politically conservative and vote Republican or Libertarian (and I know a number of other gay men who are), but if I dare mention that to my more vocal LGBT friends, I'm treated like a pariah who wants to either set them all back 100 years or shove them all back in the closet, instead of someone with a complex set of beliefs and opinions that includes far more than just LGBT rights. I came out to be ME, and the fact that I'm gay is part of that, but it's only a part, and it doesn't completely override everything else I am just because it's somehow "supposed" to.

Not all gay people are interested in living their lives as some kind of representative of "The LGBT Community", rallying against supposed "straight pride". Some of us DO just want to be seen as a person first, who incidentally happens to be gay, instead of a rainbow-flag-waving "gay person". It doesn't mean we're judging other people who are more vocal, and it doesn't mean we hate ourselves or our homosexuality. It just means we are who we are. Plenty of gay people are quiet, private people who don't want to feel that being gay comes with some set of expectations of behavior--expectations coming from either straight OR gay people.

And if this sentiment comes up that frequently, then just maybe there's a more constructive and positive way to address it than just insinuating that the poster is wrong? I've seen this kind of response over and over here, and it's very demeaning. We ARE allowed to have different viewpoints.

 

I'm not really too big on pride stuff IRL. For example, I fucking hate glitter and loud people.

Forums like these though I'm infinitely thankful for. Reading other peoples' posts who have gone through similar experiences, and getting somewhere to share my own experiences, this is the sort of "community" I value, at least for having other minds to connect with in some way.

 

That would be the straight's problem, not mine/ours. They somehow manage to not make sweeping judgments about each other based on attendance and behavior at festivals, sporting events, Mardi Gras, Carnival, and church. Nor do they generally make sweeping judgments based on jewelry, bumper stickers, T-shirts, etc. that promote widely held belief systems.

As such, they can certainly manage the mental effort to figure out that what people do at Pride is not how they spend every minute of every day. And if they can't, or won't, they likely aren't going to no matter how many hoops we all jump through to cater to their emotional complacency. That's before we get to the question of why we should be expected to cater to their emotional complacency in the first place. Certainly, they aren't making any effort to cater to ours, or even each others, in many cases.

The issue here really isn't how you live your life. Live it however you wish. Most people aren't going to care. However, what is expressed in the OP, and which you seem to be expressing here, is that that's not enough. You want a whole bunch of people to conform their lives/behavior to how you think they should be, whether they want it or not. In the case of Pride, you are not just saying that you should be able to choose not to attend (a choice you already have), but that your preferences should dictate that no one can attend. You presume to take away everyone else's choice in favor of your comfort zone. I don't find that acceptable, nor am I going to simply accept it with a smile.

No it doesn't override everything else. I quite agree. Now perhaps you could explain why you don't extend that same thinking to the people attending Pride. Why does their attendance/behavior at Pride somehow override everything else about them just because it steps outside your comfort zone or the comfort zone (real or imagined) of some number of straight people (and what about all the straight people who attend Pride events? Where do they fit in in all this)?

It seems to me, that what you are presenting here is a false choice. Either be 'some kind of representative of "The LGBT Community"' (waving a rainbow flag all the time apparently) or being "quiet, private people who don't want to feel that being gay comes with some set of expectations of behavior.'

There are plenty of other options that fall in between or outside of what you've presented here. And people should certainly be able to choose what they wish of those options - you included. However, that isn't what's being advocated here. Rather, what's been suggested in the OP and along the thread is that people should have their choices externally curtailed because some other people find them discomfiting. In addition, there is this ongoing judgement or effort to pigeonhole people (something you brought up earlier as a negative) as either being all one thing or all the other. You say that you are a complex person who should not be wholly defined by one aspect of your life. Well, by the same token, the people dancing on those floats at Pride or waving those rainbow flags are also complex people who you should not be wholly defining by one aspect of their lives (how they behave at Pride or their refusal to just keep quiet and conform or whatever).

Of course you are allowed different viewpoints. However, I'm not sure how or why you think that your viewpoint should be immune from being challenged. I'm also not sure why advocating to strip people of their choices without their consent for the sake of your (or some hypothetical someone's) comfort zone is a viewpoint that should somehow be immune from being challenged.

Todd

 

That's not called a rant, that's practically poetry. You're a brilliant writer. I like you. Honestly, I like some of the attention of LGBT, simply because it helps me to find friends, and people who will accept me. Like alliance clubs. But I completely agree with most of what you said. I'm fine with pride parades and the like, but in 100 years I hope there won't have to be any of those. It's kind of like there used to be protests for woman rights, or for blacks. You wish they weren't there, but you know that they're necessary for change. Does that make sense?

 

A necessary evil, I believe. I rather like prides. I choose not to see any agenda and view it as simply entertainment. Hot guys prancing around naked for everyone to look at, avert your eyes or take it all in, yeeeeaaah. The pride in my country is just a bunch of awkward young people riding bicycles xD

 

We are all human beings, so in that sense we are indeed all the same.

But human beings are also all individuals. We are all unique and are in that sense all different.

I would argue that our diversity is something that should be accepted, and even celebrated while also celebrating all the things we have in common.

Todd

 

I think prides are meant to protest against lack of laws. For example a transgender pride made for easier legal sex change. But you are right, in the US there are many laws that protect not hetero people... I feel the same. Even if my country is really undeveloped, my school and uni do like its normal stuff. Like, people joking about dating the other guy even if that guys dating, some guy told me he was pan just after I told him what Pansexual means and then I told him "oh cool me too" and he literally said "lol"

But I do feel like transgender and nonbinary pride parades are necessary though