Hahahha "colorful language"...? And what exactly is "tone police" besides "colorful language" that people use to make themselves a "victim?" I still have no idea what tone policing is and couldn't care less to learn to learn all the new colorful jargon being spewed out. Yes, reverse racism can occur, but like "gay marriage" should simply be called "marriage," black on white racism shouldn't be called "reverse racism," just racism. However, sometimes the "reverse" is needed to clarify. There certainly is minorities that hate white people. There certainly is gay people who hate straight people. There isn't "systematic" racism of heterophobia but it happens. I like how you ask us a question and immediately belittle one side before letting people answer. ---------- Post added 13th May 2015 at 06:06 PM ---------- QFT. It's sad when people argue semantics. Nobody here is going to use words in an academic sense unless they are sociology major. We know what the vernacular definiton is and in a discussion involving non-sociology majors, that's acceptable.
^Austin, stop making so much sense. It's sickening Ah, so this is a semantic debate then. How interesting :rolle: Words are defined by how they are used. The word "racism" is used to refer to the belief that one's race can make you inferior or superior. That's how the word is used, so that is the definition in the dictionary. The only reason "gay" means homosexual is because that's how people use it. Falling back on the "scholarly definition" (I have read plenty of articles and books that use the word "racism" to refer to the dictionary definition, so I see no reason to discount that definition at all) seems to be a way to avoid calling racism against "privileged" groups "racism". Maybe we can call your systematic "scholarly" racism "Racism*" that might help to disambiguate.
I don't know what heterophobia is, but reverse racism sure does exist! It's when a racist dude gets in his truck and puts it in reverse...
I think sometimes we forget that what we see in the US isn't necessarily the norm in other countries. There was a news story a few weeks ago about black South Africans who killed another black man because he was an immigrant from the "wrong" country. I can't remember which one, but it was kind of like the attitude that some people have here, that immigrants are stealing jobs, and the victim was from a poorer country. I remember reading a travelog written by a black guy (American) who was recalling his experiences traveling in Asia, and how people would walk up to him, touch his skin, stare at him, and ask him all sorts of weird/crazy/inappropriate questions. Like in Tokyo, a Japanese person asked him if he had a big penis, and another asked him if the color couldn"rub off" from his skin. It was really interesting because he didn't just say how offended he was (he had a right to be), but he also wrote about how they just have no concept of race relations in western countries, they never learned that stuff in school, and most of them probably had no idea how rude they were being. Many had never even seen a black person before. It's the same thing if a white person is called a gringo, or a person of Mexican descent is hated on by people from Puerto Rico, or in the Mediterranean a person with green or blue eyes has the "evil eye." Or even how some gay/lesbian people say hurtful or ignorant things about trans people. I guess what I'm trying to say is racism exists everywhere and in different contexts, and unfortunately people have been hating "others" for all of human history. I went to France on a high school trip and was walking with one of my friends through one of those old plazas in Paris, with all the old, amazing architecture, and I remember it was a really beautiful day and it was crowded. And I said something to my friend like, "Wow, look at all the people here!" when a French girl walking by with her friends overheard me and started imitating me by saying "The people! The people!" Apparently that word sounds funny to non-English speakers because they thought it was hilarious. I know that's not racism exactly, it just made me think because it was the last thing I'd ever thought someone would make fun of me for. Sorry, I wrote another novel here. :icon_redf But it's an interesting topic!
Why is it that you chose not to read anything besides that line? The nature of a paragraph is that the words that follow elaborate and clarify on the first sentence. I addressed every single comment and criticism in this post. Every single one. I will not explain it again. This is the second post of mine that you have taken out of context this week alone. ~~~ Hating white people is prejudice not racist; however, even if we are going to use the popularized meaning of racism, that wasn't what the original poster was arguing. No one is claiming that hate or prejudice towards white people is acceptable. The point that was being made was that white people in the modern world are not victimized by racism on a sociological scale. Hate or prejudice itself is not fundamentally racism. Racism is the sociological effects of racism, such as discrimination, disadvantage, and oppression. You absolutely can. If we collectively decide to take a word out of a textbook, popularize it, and add that meaning into a dictionary, we have not change that word. The academics who created it are not suddenly incorrect in their attributions. We have not changed the concept that it was created to describe. The reason why the dictionary includes the popularized definition of words is because dictionaries are not traditionally used for fact checking. They are used by individuals who are uncertain and attempting to understand what a speaker is saying. Dictionary developers assume that usage would be the popularized meaning, but those meanings are far from definitive. Racism is a sociological concept that was acknowledged and labeled as such by social behavior intellectuals. The word does not change simply because the general public inaccurately uses it in place of another. You can make the claim that formal definitions of words need not be absolute and popularized meanings of words should be viewed as equally valid; however, you cannot make that claim while doing what it is that begun this discussion: Racism is most certainly a system, regardless of whether you are educated on sociological concepts. We are here because you claimed that the initial definition of a word is inaccurate and flat out denied its relation to a concept because you read in your local dictionary that racism meant "being mean to people of others races" and ran with that definition. I am not saying that using the word "racism" in place of "prejudice" is some heinous crime; however, we would all benefit from using words that we are actually educated on rather than rejecting their fundamental meaning. ---------- Post added 13th May 2015 at 07:55 PM ---------- Except that I have said that prejudice against anyone, privileged or otherwise, isn't fundamentally racism. People can use whatever language they want. They should simply be aware of the difference between these concepts and certainly not waste they time attempting to claim that "Racism is not a system". You will simply appear uneducated on the subject, regardless of how you commonly use the word.
Well reverse racism may not actually exist but prejudice might. A single white mom can definately be the recipeient of prejudice and discrimination. She is hetro and white but probably most certainly not privileged. If the single white mom has people "hate the white chick" or is overlooked for a job because she is single, a woman, and has a kid, it's probably not racism but definately discrimination. All I would say is people shouldn't lump all white, hetro people together as the "priveleged" ones. Are the majority of hetro whites the priveleged ones, yes? Are they all? No.
I can't really get my thoughts out cleanly right now, but here are my main thoughts: 1. Yes, they exist. 2. They're not nearly as common or widespread as homophobia/racism. 3. In the few instances where they do occur, they don't have nearly as large of an impact on people's lives as homophobia/racism do. 4. The small amount of heterophobia/reverse racism in society stems, almost entirely, from resentment towards straights/whites for lifetimes of abuse and mistreatment. 5. 99.9% of accusations of heterophobia/reverse racism are invalid and come from stupid, uneducated, spoiled, whiny, ignorant, homophobic/racist people who don't like being called out on their bullshit or are against the particular minority groups in question having equal rights.
That's actually a different framing of the situation, though. White privilege in and of itself is distinct from gender inequalities. Privilege is something inherent and yet it interplays with prejudice very interestingly when you consider how different categories that stray from the "norm" affect each other (Intersectionality: race affects gender roles, for instance). A white woman being judged and unfairly treated for being a single parent does not, though, discount her white privilege. Just because she has that privilege does not mean she has others, like male privilege. People can be privileged in many ways and not privileged in others. We can't, though, discount how white and heterosexual people (Male and cisgender, middle class or above, thin, and so on, if we want to add onto this) are considered the standard and the norm, and that it confers a tremendous amount of inherent privilege, and subsequent shielding from many issues that others have to face just because of the circumstances of their birth and genetics.
Racism against white people absolutely exists. Especially where I live. Racism of both races seems to exist more toward the South, just like homophobia. Yet we have Southern hospitality? Dafuq...
Dain, I do agree with many of your points. I do agree not to discount that the majority of white hetros are priveleged. Just pointing out there are a FEW exceptions in these groups
I would say it's mostly a discomfort for those so "afflicted." Very few would take it the level of it being hatred. If that were the case, that would worry me and I'd steer clear of those people, just to be on the safe side. I'm white, so the first one wouldn't apply to me. However, let's face it: condescending heterosexual folks who think they are better because they have reproduced are annoying, at the very least.
Privilege, hmmmmmmm, ok. I don't deny it exists, is it a good excuse to use to make your problems go away? Hell naw! people will probs tell you to f*** off if you bring that up. Why? They have the privilege to do that! We should be more focused on building our own privilege rather than focusing on others. Complaining about others privilege doesn't help yours, unfortunately. You aren't guaranteed anything but you can try and work for it.
You cannot "build" privilege, though. I cannot make role models for asian youth appear, I cannot make models in advertisements become asian, and I cannot make stereotypes and slurs directed at asians go away appreciably. I could surround myself with people who don't stereotype or direct slurs at me, and dig around and try to find the few asian role models compared to the thousands of white ones, but that does not make white privilege go away, nor does it increase "asian privilege" if you could say it exists (I would say you'd be hard-pressed to make an argument it does exist without grasping at straws). Privilege is inherent. Thus, it cannot be built.
Why can't you break your inherited perceived stereotypes? Prove yourself to be something more. Build your own privilege.
It is not about me, though. It's about everyone who doesn't have that inherent privilege. A 4 year old will be hearing slurs, stereotypes, will be lacking role models of their own ethnicity, will be denied opportunities or typecast into others, long before he/she has the opportunity to grasp these differences. It goes for the young, old, middle-aged, and everything in between. It's way too nuanced and complex to drop upon an individual. You cannot ask an individual to combat a societal problem. It's impossible and unfeasible and won't actually solve anything beyond one specific instance of success. To combat a societal problem, you need to address it in a societal manner. I can appreciate the perspective you're saying, because it is true that a positive attitude and unwillingness to conform to stereotypes, and to succeed despite obstacles, is a positive thing for an individual to have. It is not enough, though. A positive attitude alone is not complete enough to help address a history of so many complex issues (Beauty, smartness, work ethic, opportunities, incarceration, and so much more that I can't even begin to write it all out without taking several moments to examine so many facets of life).
i don't think white people go through nearly as much racism as others. However it still can happen and I hate to say it but sometimes people are racist over there own race. I'm not giving examples of how but it does happen. I can't say for sure if not liking someone because of there race is racist but I think it kind of is. I mean I know they don't say anything exactly to them but if they're thinking it I think it is a tidbit racist.
