Do You Think Orientation Can Change?

I'd swear I posted here already. I was going to say that from personal experience, it does seem like orientation can change.

When you're a kid you're asexual. When you're 14 you find other 14-year-olds attractive. When you're in your 20s you find other 20-year-olds attractive. As you age your frame of reference changes and your tastes mature like a fine wine.

There seems to be enough leeway in human sexuality for someone to do a 180 over maybe 10 years, and go from predominantly straight to predominantly gay. I know a few people who experienced something like this, and one person who experienced the opposite. It's sad that most of them are too unsure of themselves and ashamed to talk about their stories. The people pushing the biological essentialism narrative have created a social environment where it is very difficult to be honest about yourself if your history doesn't quite fit that narrative.

 

Actually the OP didn't provide any context... For all we know, it might be for a science project and studies like these and possible interpretations of them are exactly what she wanted.

The truth is that 100% conclusive scientific study on the subject is three different kinds of impossible... Basically, we'll either need a large random sample studied for decades using rather intrusive methods, which is unethical, impractical, and prohibitively expensive, or so complete understanding of human mind and body that the whole question becomes moot ("Yes, it used to be innate, but it was back in pre-Singularity days...")

We confidently know it's not something simple like a single gene mutation or an exposure to a single obvious factor. Since we don't know what exactly it is, we can't set out to manipulate it in any meaningful way. And since we can't, it might as well be treated as innate for political purposes. Exodus, etc. and their insane brainwashing schemes don't work. They won't work even if genuine change of sexual orientation was possible. And yes, it may be safe to assume horses, not zebras when hearing hoofbeats... Except in the middle of African savannah.

Individual people aren't "the majority" If someone believes their orientation changed and is fine with that, - all this talk of "born this way" may produce the exact opposite of the intended effect, making acceptance more difficult. It is possible to believe in possibility of sexual orientation change and be at peace with one you've got, however queer it is. And it still doesn't make all the "pray the gay away" schemes any more valid.

 

Yes, we need to be clear which we are talking about, otherwise our entire argument changes. I am arguing that a persons actual sexual orientation will not change. When you start to count people who identify with a sexual orientation, all bets are off. Heck, I thought I was bisexual (and would have identified as one if I was out) when I was younger, before going through the long and painful process of accepting that I was gay.

Using the self-identifying argument, ex-gay ministries work great, as many people go into them identifying as gay or bisexual and leave identifying as straight, even though they are still homosexual or bisexual.

I don't know what an objective measure of a persons sexuality would be, probably the closest would be a penile encephalograph, but even that is not perfect.

One's sexual interests are not the same as one's sexual orientation. Most people's sexual interests will adapt over time in relation to age, looks, or desirable traits. The gender (or genders) one is attracted to will not change though. Even if a true bisexual becomes more comfortable with one gender over the other, that doesn't make them not attracted to the other gender all of a sudden.

 

Technically speaking, men generally prefer younger partners and women prefer older partners (in an ideal world), and relatively speaking. It's all relative to the general "fertile" age, somewhere around the mid-20's. So a teenage guy would want an older woman (closer to that age) whereas an old man would want a much younger woman (closer to that age).

Anyways, I'm of the thought that orientation is pretty well organized pre-natally. I don't think situational/environmental can affect orientation, but I think they can be good indicators of orientation (as has been proven through studies).

Women are also much more sexually fluid than men. Hence why there's generally more "bi" women than Kinsey 0/6 women, and more straight/gay men than bi men. So I think it also largely depends on what you mean by "changing orientation".

 

Apologies for not getting back to this thread sooner, I was caught up with work and didn't have enough energy to come on E.C. Plus, I forgot about it.

I'm not a doctor, geneticist or a psychologist, but I do want to be a psychiatrist. I was just accepted to medical school. But that means absolutely nothing, and I don't have a proper grasp of the data like someone with experience.

My main point in posting those studies was not to say that I thought they were conclusive or anything or that I truly believed in their findings. My point, however, was to respond to what you said here:

I understand what the OP's question meant, and I do not believe that I can will myself away from being gay. In fact, I acknowledged this in my post:

But again, what you said was that there is "no evidence [life experience] can affect orientation". I was merely linking to three well-known studies which are conducted by well-respected scientists and published in well-respected medical and psychology journals which show that there is at least "evidence" that life experience can affect orientation. You explicitly said that that there was "no evidence".

That's what I was saying with the above quote, which concluded my post. I was essentially saying that even if you come up with completely different conclusions — as you say you did — there was "evidence".

There's a difference between saying that there is "no evidence" and that there is "a lot of research done but it's not conclusive"!

Again, I acknowledged this and totally agree with you as in my original post, but I wasn't addressing that part of your post.

I don't think we do any service to people by posting factually inaccurate statements. You did not need to say that there was "no evidence [life experience] can affect orientation" in responding to the original poster (who as you said, most likely wanted to know if they could make themselves straight), when it's clear that there is a lot of evidence from reputable sources, despite how inconclusive or "sketchy" you or anyone may determine it to be.

Look, I don't think that anyone reading my post would have been confused or could have concluded that they can make themselves straight. I mean I think it's just as important to let people know that research has been done on this stuff. I expressly stated at the beginning of my post, the following, which I will quote again:

You see, I agree totally with what you are saying here, but I don't see how, given what I've said in my original post and this one, how what I said does anything contrary to this.

 

I don't think it can change.I heard it is a genetic thing

 

Yes it can change. It's just to many variables to know verify.

 

I think it can be fluid, but change? no; everyone is who they are.