Do you think Affirmative Action should be applicable to men in college?

Oh, boo, hoo.

The poor 'lil white man who has ruled this nation for (almost) it's entire history.

Cry me a fuckin' river.

 

As President Obama said very succinctly when he was here at Macomb Community College, those who graduate with a college degree earn on average 1 million more than those who do not throughout a life time. Where I do not agree is the actual education system in getting there for K-12.

Due to the fact that the NEA here in the U.S. is dominated by females, we are seeing education being adjusted more to how girls learn than boys. Common Core was created to give a way for girls to learn even more easily. The problem is that boys are finding more and more problems with learning in public schools. This is why we have an uptick in boys that are being homeschooled. Schools should not teach to how one gender learns and not the other. Female teachers also makeup approximately 70% of the staff at K-12 schools, so that also puts boys at a disadvantage because of teaching and learning styles.

That said, I believe that government scholarships should be need-based when it comes to Pell Grants etc. It should be gauged on how much money a family has made the year prior. Race should have nothing to do with it, but it did here at the University of Michigan until 2003 for undergraduate degrees. The Supreme Court ruled affirmative action unconstitutional at that level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratz_v._Bollinger The University of Michigan law program held affirmative action polices until about 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger

How would it be fair that someone like Sasha and Maleah Obama get scholarships just based on their race while someone whose white family has been living on welfare and in trailer parks for 50 years get shut out?

So, in short, no affirmative action for race or gender I believe. Scholarships were originally intended for the poor, so let them be used by the poor. If private donors such as the United Negro College Fund want to get involved, that is up to them.

 

I believe that some men should be able to benefit from affirmative action, but not because they are men.

 

Affirmative Action has never had an influence on financial aid and scholarships. Accepted minority students are more likely to show financial need, but aid applications are only ever approved based on household income. Merit scholarships specifically have been proven to be provided disproportionately to Caucasian students not to POC. That myth of scholarship favoritism to racial minorities was debunked back in 2011.

Affirmative Action was introduced strictly to improve admissions. The government has no control over private scholarship providers and university financial aid offices are require by law to provide aid to students who fall below the middle class line and fulfill the academic requires. Aid provided by universities has never had anything to do with race or gender.

Gratz v. Bollinger was simply a matter of admissions. Which didn't even prove that students were accepted based strictly on race rather it allowed universities to come out and publicly admit to being against AA. Universities haven't truly followed Affirmative Action for decades because there are no literal requirements. It is symbolic legislation. It is the equivalent of telling citizens that they shouldn't discriminate in the workplace. Very rarely can you prove the claim that an employer choose not to hire you because you have minority status rather than you simply weren't chosen.

Now, I won't touch the issues in primary and secondary education because that is a complex enough subject in itself. I am only speaking about higher education.

 

No, because men aren't being discriminated against in the application process. Men avoid college, you could say, because there are more blue collar jobs available to them, so it's less of a necessity. Women have to just to come near what most men make, and even then, it's not always much. Keep in mind that many major in the social sciences, so that could play a part, too.

 

I put "yes absolutely," just because it would be hilariously ironic. But really, I disagree with all aspects of affirmative action. And I'm not going to be sexist and say it is fine because men often have jobs that don't need a degree. Lol.

 

I think very small doses of AA for particularly disadvantaged groups is healthy as a temporary measure, but I'm not in support of extending that to extremely broad classes of people, because that band-aid solution disincentivises addressing the problem at earlier, much more important stages.

I do think it would be beneficial to make tertiary education much more accessible and to ensure that schools in areas with low socioeconomic status provide the resources needed to get into university. I'm not sure it's a universal truth that men find blue-collar jobs more appealing, especially if we're talking about deindustrialised countries, but making sure that alternatives and information are readily available is extremely important in tackling any issue like this, but as I'll explain in a second, I don't think that's the entire picture.

I also think that using an overarching average is a bad idea. For example, Australian university students are 55.7% female, but that's skewed by the most female-dominated universities. Some regional, rather awful universities with little prestige and a focus on relatively low-paying jobs like nursing and other courses that are scarcely academic have over 70% female students, while the top university for engineering has 46.8%. The reputation and later income of graduates vastly differ, with men coming out on top in this particular instance.

Women make up almost 80% of education students, around 60% of arts students and over 70% of health students. But they make up less than a fifth of IT and engineering students. The pay of those fields is heavily weighted towards the areas of study predominantly men take. Clearly, men need to be encouraged to enter female-dominated studies and vice-versa. Part of addressing that is making sure that workers in female-dominated fields are paid well enough to incentivise more men to join (as well as to address the rather plain unpleasantness of women currently earning less as a result) and making sure that girls at schools are being encouraged to engage with STEM fields more freely and making STEM studies seem less of a boys' club. And it doesn't stop there; even with relatively equal student numbers for studies such as law, men earn a significant amount more and end up in higher positions than women in their later lives.

I don't think it's a good idea to look at universities as a whole without also looking at specific areas of study in trying to find solutions to the problem. The basic numbers for graduation are quite different from financial outcomes, so I think it's really not a good idea to introduce AA to get more men in for the sake of getting more men in if that isn't part of a more comprehensive solution.

 

I would think that everyone should just try there best regardless what they do

 

Agreed.

We need to be open and honest when inequalities arise and think about how we can address them in a way that doesn't unfairly impact other groups negatively.

I think an interesting read which explains this phenomenon is "The War Against Boys".

I do think, whilst feminism has achieved many great and necessary progressions for women, a nasty side effect has been a residual inequality for boys in education. This would not be so bad if it was accepted, discussed and resolved. I think the problem is governments are scared to raise this for fear of coming across as sexist or misogynistic, and you do have vocal radical feminists doing their damndest to ensure such discussions are not given breathing space (usually through using dated research re gender pay gaps, or misrepresenting modern research by looking at it superficially). You only have to look at the abuse the author of the above book (a woman and feminist herself) receives.

 

I don't really agree with affirmative action in general. If anything, I think it's more counter productive. If more men get accepted into college, then it is what it is. I believe in equal opportunity, and that includes everyone having the same chance to reach their goals.

Now that's just a generalization that all white people had power. Sure the men ruling the nation were white, but as far as ancestral history goes, it definitely doesn't account for all white people.

 

I don't believe in Affirmative action of any sort. I believe that the only action should be for those in need of funding. It should have nothing to do with sex, color or orientation either. It should have to do with your finding. If you have money, no help for you, if you have none, then you get help. That in and of itself would create more equality than the other.

 

To be completely honest, I am never impressed with any type of site quotes as it is possible to find those both for, and against, whatever your stance is. You will find I do not often use these types of things in my posts, as so many of them are Blogs or opinions and are not supported fact. (You can make anything look good with enough spin.) Site me some actual studies and stats done by the appropriate scientific method and I would be more inclined to believe them. I only believe about 2% of what I read on the internet on a good day, anyhow.(call me a cynical Xgener):lol:

I do not agree that males cannot compete or engage in modern society. I have seen no such proof in my life. Men are not stupid. I can honestly say that the males I know have never had a problem. The males that are being raised by strong Feminist mothers like myself certainly have no such problems, they understand it. In your opinion, and just because I want to understand, what is Feminism doing that 'causes' males to feel that they cannot compete or engage? Is there something specific? I would like to understand this generations view on this. I think you mentioned that you are not in America(I may have you mixed up with someone else) is it different in your country if this is so?

 

I oppose affirmative action, so no.

Besides, women could always meet men outside of school, like at a mall or a coffee shop.