LGBT News Democrat Debate

Ummm i expect him to do what he campaigns for. Breaking up the banks, overturning citizens united, put liberals on the supreme court.
Shillary wont do that. Shes only saying what she thinks will get her elected.
It would certainly help 100x more than just saying " derp, nothing will get done so we might as well keep things the way they are"

 

...and you expect him to do this, how exactly? He can campaign on anything he likes, but he actually has to achieve what he promises. If he wants to overturn Citizens United, that is going to require a Constitutional Amendment to the United States Constitution. To put real liberals on the Supreme Court, that is going to require getting his judges passed in the Senate. If he wants to break up the banks, that is going to require him to work with both the House and the Senate.

Consider that Bernie Sanders has very few allies among the Democratic Party establishment, and zero allies among the Republicans. Now, explain to me how he is going to accomplish anything he has promised.

 

Bernie Sanders is the Democratic equivalent of Rick Santorum. Four years ago Santorum pitched the "silent majority" in the GOP that didn't actually exist. Bernie Sanders does the same thing, pandering to the supposed "silent majority" in the Democratic Party that doesn't exist. As I've said before, the longer Bernie Sanders stays in the race and the more primary votes he takes away from Hillary, who like it or not will be the 2016 nominee, the more likely it will be that Republicans will win the presidency in 2016.

 

I don't agree with that analysis. Bernie Sanders has clear support within the party, though it is mostly with white middle class liberals. Hillary maintains her lead because she is still overwhelmingly favored my minorities, and has greater name recognition. I don't disagree that she'll almost certainly be the nominee.

Bernie Sanders started his campaign, not because he believed he could be President, but because he wanted to push the party more toward the left. It is clear that he's done that, at least rhetorically, as Hillary has moved further to the left than she has ever been in her public life since coming to Washington D.C. -- that was on full display during the debate. When she saw an opportunity to move to Bernie's left on guns, she moved there so fast it almost gave me whiplash.

Of course, the political landscape has changed dramatically since Bill Clinton was President. So called "moderates" no longer decide elections. It's all about turning out the base, as Obama proved in 2012, and Republican's have understood for some time. Of course, a fundamental core of our base--white middle class liberals--don't trust Hillary to be liberal enough, which is understandable considering her record.

The problem with Bernie Sanders is that even if by some miracle he got to the oval office, he has ZERO chance of actually being able to govern. He would be a lame duck President from day one. Alternatively, he would basically be doing the same shit Obama or Hillary would be doing in office, just less effectively.

There are basically two ways for liberals to move their agenda forward. One is through the system, and the other is outside of the system. If we are going to move through the system, then it requires us to keep doing what we've been doing: pushing the party more and more to the left over time. I remember working really hard to make DLC a dirty word. Working outside the system would look a lot like Egypt during the Arab Spring.

To get what Bernie is promising done, we would literally have to work outside of the system. Otherwise he has zero chance of delivering anything. He has this mythical belief that people voting will actually change the status quo. It is no different than Obama's delusion that Republicans could be trusted as negotiating partners, and the squandering of his first term--especially pre-2010 Tea Party Republican take over when he held a super majority in the house and senate.

So, yeah. Bernie Sanders can promise whatever he wants. He has no way to deliver.

...and I think the debates are actually good for Hillary. It takes the focus away from her e-mail non-scandal, and whatever else the Republican's decide to throw at her. It gives the media something to talk about.

 

Im not sure you guys have ever listened to his speeches because he has set up a way to get things done and shillary hasnt. It sucks that i have to constantly tell ppl this who say they listen to everyone. Hes said that hes going to do what obama didnt. Hes going to use the ppl who got him elected to keep putting pressure on congressmen and women that are being obstructionists from the outside while he does it from the oval office and to start a political revolution.
I havent heard how shillary will do it? Shea going to be the lame dick president. Bernie has the activists on his side, me being one of them and if shillary is the nominee, ill vote for jill stein.

And to say that bernie is a rick santorum type is outlandish. Hes been in politics for decades and has flipped flopped less than any other politican in congress today, so thats just an asinine comment. Along with tbe comment that the gop is stronger the longer sanders stays in the race...do u want a corrination? We have elections in america, and the idea that u want to suppress candidates from running against shillary is borderline facist. I dont know about what i think but we live in a democracy, this isnt a monarchy, we dont pass the leadership to someone because of their genetic pool.

Bernie doesnt have zero support from the dems in congress either. Have you heard of the progressive caucus thats part of the democratic party? Both chairs in the house and senate support sanders... and shillary said shes a progressive but cant get the support of the progressive caucus?

---------- Post added 16th Oct 2015 at 09:08 PM ----------

So how is the most hated democrat among republicans going to govern....bernie got 20% of the republican vote in the senate. He does have cross appeal

 

Im sorry, he actually got 25% of the republican vote when he ran in the senate

 

Alright, I have to say a couple of things. First, it's hard to take you seriously when you can't take the time to type out three letter words. Second, it is also hard to take you seriously when you intentionally make puns on Hillary's name, it sounds sophomoric and juvenile, and it isn't something that is appropriate for an actual adult discussion. You are twenty-six years old, and you should start writing like it. Third, I don't think you really understood the questions that I was raising for you.

I will address some of your points, and then restate my questions.

Actually, I have listened to some of Bernie Sanders speeches, and I watched him closely in the debate. I'm fully aware of where Bernie stands on the issues, and what he is promising everyone. I even like Bernie Sanders as a person, and think he is a fantastic Senator of Vermont. I am even to Bernie Sanders left on most issues, and so if there is an ideological difference between us it is me attacking Bernie from his left flank. However, my issue with Bernie Sanders, obviously, has nothing to do with political ideology.

Obama has done exactly that repeatedly over his Presidency. He did it most recently on the issue of guns, and it isn't the first time he's done it on that issue. "In what was one of the most powerful speeches of his administration – and the 15th following a shooting – the US president made an openly political call for voters to do what politicians and the American gun lobby have not: pressure legislation to keep guns out of the hands of people like the 26-year-old man who killed at least nine people on Thursday inside Umpqua community college." -- The Guardian, October 1, 2015.

Obama has done this again and again and again throughout his Presidency, even on some issues that Bernie Sanders supports like raising the minimum wage. Where is the "revolution"? If you are such an activist as you claim, what were you doing when that call to action was made? Where is the revolution? Why does the revolution have to wait until Bernie Sanders is President? I didn't realize revolutions had schedules and timetables.

I didn't say that Bernie didn't have the support of some democratic members of Congress, I said that he didn't have the support of the Democratic Establishment.

Bernie Sanders got over 70% of the vote in his last election for Senate. Yes, he got some Republican votes in Vermont. That obviously was not what I was talking about, because those Vermont Republicans are worthless to him. I was talking about the Republicans in the House and Senate.

As I hope that you are aware, Obama has attempted to negotiate with them in the past. I assume that is what you believe Bernie Sanders intends to do. Every time Obama attempted to negotiate with them, they ran away from their own ideas as soon as he embraced them. Literally. They would put out a proposal, Obama would say, 'That's a great idea, I support it' and the moment he turned around they would be against their own proposals simply because he embraced it.

However, let's just assume that the above problem is unique to President Obama. Let's assume that Bernie Sanders can negotiate with Republicans in good faith. I don't believe that is possible, but let's have that hypothetical anyway. Republicans control the House, and by all measures they will remain in control of the House at least until the year 2020. Republicans may maintain control of the Senate, though it's possible that it may sway back toward Democrats in 2016. However, even if it does Democrats will not have a super majority (60 votes) in the Senate.

So, with the above configuration of Congress, this means any legislation that passes will have to be negotiated with Republicans. Republicans in Congress, obviously, are not very supportive of a lot of (if any) of Bernie Sanders ideas. So, let's imagine a hypothetical where Bernie Sanders actually sits down with Republicans, negotiates a compromise deal, and gets it passed through the House and Senate to sign it into law. Do you think that compromise deal is going to be more favorable to Republican ideas or more favorable to Bernie Sanders ideas? Explain why.

Here is the problem: Bernie Sanders can promise the moon and stars. However, the question that always has to be asked is whether or not he can actually deliver on anything he promises. I do not believe that he can, in large part because he does not know how to wield power in such a way that forces others to do what he wants them to do against their will. Bernie Sanders is no LBJ.

I believe Bernie Sanders is a good legislator, and I agree with him to get what he wants done will require revolution. The problem is that the revolution that he wants is not going to come from the ballot box. It's going to come from the street, and it will require literally bringing Washington D.C. and the establishment to its knees. It will look more like a real revolution, and you don't need to be President of the United States to be successful at that. In fact, it actually hurts you rather than helps you, because governing is different--it requires compromise, which every real revolutionary hates. The moment Bernie the Revolutionary starts to compromise he becomes Bernie the Sellout.

 

Your first paragraph is u bashing me. Stopped reading after that...thanks

---------- Post added 17th Oct 2015 at 03:14 PM ----------

Im writing on my cell phone so its quicker to use "u" instead of you... when i get to a computer ill go through ur arguments and use proper English, apparently its hard for YOU to understand shorthand.
And i name call shillary because, well its the least i could do after she said bashed lgbt rights for years until her corporate overlords told her to do otherwise...talk to YOU soon...
Sorry for not capitalizing "i" a few times, hope thats not a sticking point.

 

I was not bashing you, I was doing you a favor by encouraging you to write like an actual adult so that people will take you seriously.

Oh, and just to boost the final point that I made, which I know you read.

That point was just proven by this article here. The money quote:

That is what a Bernie Sanders Presidency looks like from the left, and why the "revolution" isn't going to happen.

 

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