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Cut or uncut

Discussion in 'Physical & Sexual Health' started by MBM4K54, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. MBM4K54

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    Again, what's your preference when you get a chance to go downstairs, cut or uncut.
    Again like myself, I prefer cut.
     
  2. LaurenSkye

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    I like them cut. Why keep something so beautiful hidden?
     
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  3. Destin

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    Cut. It's just more aesthetically pleasing.
     
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  4. Benway

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    I'd prefer it if nobody was circumcised. Circumcision is mutilation and it should only be done when there's a medical issue causing problems for the person attached to the penis. It's based on ancient Jewish superstition and it's still prevalent in US today because too many of our lawmakers support Israel because they think it will usher in the Christian apocalypse as it's allegedly written so in the Bible, which is a translation of a translation of a translation based on oral tradition. There is absolutely no reason a healthy person should be circumcised. My friend had his infant son circumcised and I chewed him out for it and told him if he has any other boys, not to do it again. I'm still pissed off about that. I too, am circumcised and I am not happy about it. I live knowing I am half a man because my parents were fed lies that it's "more hygienic." I am not intact. I am a mutilated person because my penis was mutilated as a baby. It's not right, and it's not fair.
     
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  5. BothWaysSecret

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    Agree compeltely.
     
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  6. BothWaysSecret

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    Maybe it's not my place, but unless it's your child, I don't really think you have a right to decide whether his son is circumcised or not.

    Its interesting when ai hear guys who feel this way. I am not at all traumatized by my circumcison. It does not bother me one bit. I do not feel mutilated by it, nor do I feel less of a man because of it.
     
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  7. Benway

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    That shouldn't be the parents' choice. That should be the child's choice when he's old enough to give consent to a doctor with a knife who wants to cut off his foreskin. I'm a firm believer that circumcision should be banned as a practice except in cases where the foreskin is causing a medical issue. It's sick, it's twisted, it's mutilation based on ancient Jewish superstition and it's wrong.
     
    #7 Benway, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  8. Destin

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    As a soon to be medical student with a physician parent, I can tell you pretty factually that circumcision being more hygienic and healthy are not lies or myths. It makes cleaning the penis easier which prevents potential infections, prevents phimosis (the painful inability to retract the foreskin) from becoming a possible concern for the person later in life, among other things. Also, anecdotally, I've heard from women that circumcised penises feel better to them during sex and it helps the guy last longer which makes the sex continue for longer which contributes towards making a happier relationship.

    It's not medically necessary for most people of course, but it's a useful preventative surgery no different than removing a child's tonsils as a preventative measure so they don't develop an infection later (and tonsils get infected extremely frequently if not removed, since that's what they exist for, catching the bacteria before it enters the body).

    Also, you 100% want to have the circumcision done as a baby, because if you have it done as a teen/adult it hurts BADLY and will basically ruin your life for about two weeks with pain, swelling, difficulty going to the bathroom etc. so it's much better to have it done as a baby so you have no memory of those issues.

    The prevalence of it being used in the United States has nothing to do with Israel by the way, it's because a very large amount of American physicians are Jewish or from Jewish families (including mine, even though the Jewish part of ours died out about 3 generations ago) and brought their cultural health traditions into the profession with them many years ago.
     
    #8 Destin, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  9. TrevinMichael

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    I prefer human cut or uncut. I understand the context of the conversation.
    I just do not choose others by their appearance as much as for who they are inside.

    I also agree with the post directly above mine. I am the way I am. I am okay this way.
    There are many ideas about many things. I sometimes wish I was not cut, and I am okay
    with being cut. As far as preference I prefer the person that I am with is kind and loving.
     
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  10. Chip

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    Phimosis is legitimately a problem, but it's pretty rare, and easily resolved if it develops. As for hygiene, the majority of the world has done perfectly well managing to keep shit clean down there for millenia. There's zero data that it's 'healthier' if people are taught proper hygiene. And the downside to circumcision is significantly decreased sensitivity of the glans.

    I don't have a particularly strong opinion one way or another, but the decreased sensitivity issue is pretty much a deal killer for many.

    Sorry, but that's an absolute load of crap. Again, the majority of the world is uncircumsized, has been for millenia, and I've seen zero data to suggest that people in the US (where the overwhelming majority of circumsized people in the world are) have 'happier relationships' or even healthier sexual relationships than people in other parts of the world. If anything, it's the opposite, but it has nothing to do with circumcision.

    Which, fortunately, is far, far less frequent than it was a couple of generations ago. The tonsils actually serve a purpose as a front-line in the immune system. And actually, 80% of tonsillectomies are done for oversized tonsils that impact sleep, not as a 'preventative for infections", because, fortunately, people mostly figured out a few decades ago that it was a dumb idea to remove a necessary part of the immune system because a small number of people get recurrent tonsillitis.

    The trend in medicine is, fortunately, to recognize that most parts of the body are actually there for a reason, and we should leave well enough alone unless there's a compelling reason to do so.

    Except that then you're making a decision for your child that really isn't yours to make. We used to have a member here who was way off the deep end with his anger about being circumsized, but his basic point is valid: circumcision is unnecessary, is almost exclusively a US thing (outside of the Jewish population, where it's a religious ritual, but it's even falling out of favor among many Jews), and in any case, should be a choice made by the individual whose penis is involved. Yes, it's not a pleasant procedure to have as a teen or adult (I know a couple folks who have had it, one for personal reasons and one for medical reasons), but it's really not all that miserable in the grand scale in terms of giving the child control of his body.

    I realize some of the above sounds a little dickish. It's not intended to be, but unfortunately, people who grow up in with nurses or physicians in the family often to have an overly aggressive perspective about unnecessary surgical procedures and even use of medication.

    I'm by no means against appropriate medication, but I am against the really aggressive overuse of medication and unnecessary testing and medical procedures, which are at epidemic levels in the US. Fortunately, there's starting to be a swing back toward realizing that our bodies are remarkably intelligent and capable of solving many problems themselves if people take care of themselves, eat well, bathe appropriately, and exercise. But... physicians are less likely to get that information because of the way that medical research and even medical education is funded in the US. In that regard, a number of other medical systems have a few notches up on us.
     
    #10 Chip, Jan 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
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  11. DecentOne

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    Sorry @MBM4K54 , I will continue the derailment of your original question. Personally I have no clue what I’d prefer to see on someone else, as I’m not sexually active with any penis except my own.

    What @Benway and @Chip talk about cut right to my heart. I wonder if sex in late middle age would be better if I had not been circumcised. After a severe car accident I lost partial sensation in another part of my body, and I’m more tuned into having a full set of nerve endings everywhere. I wish I had come to this realization before having any children of my own, as I have passed on the tradition to the next generation already. But back at the time I was a parent of a newborn (when AIDs was at peak deadliness) there was more information about how HIV was less likely to be caught by guys who were circumcised. An article years later was still touting studies showing likely HALF the risk for circumcised guys: (https://www.guttmacher.org/journals...-men-are-less-likely-uncircumcised-men-become): “Male circumcision substantially decreased the risk of HIV infection in two recent analyses of data from Sub-Saharan Africa. According to a meta-analysis that pooled data from 28 studies in eight countries, circumcised men are only about half as likely to contract HIV as men who have not been circumcised, and the protective effect of circumcision is even greater for men at high risk of HIV infection.”
    @Destin is probably able to confirm that, with his focus of study, even in this day and age I think “tops” and straight men who were circumcised as babies are supposed to have less chance of catching HIV (still everyone should use a condom! They aren’t illegal anymore, the way they were back when I was born). And now it seems HPV and penile cancer may be higher among those who are uncut (of course there is a vaccine for that now, not back then, but even when it was first available in the US most pediatricians did not make it available for boys, even after it was approved for boys).

    Some of us parents followed the tradition in the US, but not just because it was tradition. I really did look at the choice once I was a parent, and thought circumcision made medical sense at that time. I also knew kids who had to have it done for medical reasons when they reached puberty and I never wanted a kid of mine to have even a remote chance of going through that. It pains me to hear I made a choice that was not mine. I made so many decisions for my children over the years, from what foods they ate to where we lived, but I always did it with love (and they didn’t have their tonsils taken out @Chip, though I seem to recall preemptive wisdom tooth extraction did happen). I could not have predicted that there would be meds for AIDs and then PrEP to prevent HIV, and that my protection of my child via circumcision would be judged so harshly in 2020. I also let the doctors give my children vaccines, and I’m sure to get flack for that too, though perhaps less in 2020 than before now, with the measles outbreaks changing public discourse.

    Can I blame my defective actions on the fact that I grew up in a house with lead paint, in a neighborhood which was sprayed by DDT trucks at least once each summer, and I was socially conditioned to “duck and cover” at elementary school? I suppose I can’t really blame my childhood circumstance though, as I managed not to smoke despite watching on TV which brand of cigarettes Doctors chose most.
     
  12. Benway

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    Wow, that study is a load of crap. It just keeps spouting out statistics and numbers, factors about religion and Islam, but it never tells you WHY circumcised males are less susceptible to the virus. I just read it and it's a lot of purdy words and numbers, but nowhere does it once mention HOW having a circumcised penis lowers your chances of getting HIV. I think this is like the whole "vaccines give kids autism" thing, it was printed by someone who was paid to publish it by a major right wing authority. HOW does having a circumcised penis prevent a guy who's topping from becoming infected? I think the short answer is: It doesn't. It's part of some propaganda machine.
     
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  13. gravechild

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    I'm uncut, don't care either way
     
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  14. Oliverrrrr

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    I'm with Benway and Chip on this.

    Ever heard of Female Genital Mutilation? Most folks that know about FGM have decided that it's wrong to mutilate the genitals of (mostly African) children.

    So why is it ok to for parents (mostly in the us) to mutilate the genitals of their sons?

    Whatever your preferred self justification is, just be honest and accept and own that it's mutilation of another person who may not thank you for it.
     
    #14 Oliverrrrr, Jan 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
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  15. Rade

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    I had to be cut at about 11, I didn't understand at that age what the foreskin does. I hadn't masturbated before I was cut. I can remember my dick being super sensitive after the op. I do think sometimes I'm missing out as of course once your cut the head is less sensitive.
    But I've had plenty of fun with my dick, lol....
    I like cut and uncut guys, as I don't have a foreskin I enjoy a guy who does!!
     
  16. Chip

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    There are an awful lot of scientific studies where we post the results that we have without a full understanding why those results happen. So we shouldn't discount this study solely based on not understanding the mechanism of action associated with increased transmission rates. The study in question is actually pretty robust and well designed; it's not religious propaganda at all.

    If you think about it, it actually does make intuitive sense to me that someone who is enough of a dumbass to bareback with someone, and who is also uncircumsized, will probably be at greater risk of virii transmission than someone who barebacks with a circumsized penis; given the folds of the foreskin, there are more places where bodily fluids and tiny bits of blood could be captured, and might persist and/or make it into the urethra. That's just conjecture on my part, but I'd guess it's a major part of it.

    Now... that said, 1) always, always, always use a goddamn condom. No excuses. 2) If you insist on being a dumbass and not doing so, and are uncircumsized, then really super thoroughly wash yourself immediately after sex. Not only over HIV risks, but simply for risks of fecal bacteria and other STIs, as well as the risk of urinary tract infections. Really, use a goddamn condom. 3) One point on which I agree with Dustin: If you're going to be lazy about hygiene, and a dumbass about not using condoms, then circumcision probably makes sense. But that's a decision for the adult owner of the penis to decide, not parents choosing it for their infant son.
     
  17. Benway

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    That doesn't sound a whole lot like what I perceive to be as "science." What is sounds like you're saying is that "science is sometimes more art than science." How do we know that the results of the study aren't based on some sort of massive coincidence? Plenty of uncut guys go their whole lives having sex without a condom and not getting an STD, straight, gay or whatever. As far as that study goes, it suggests that because some of the men in question were devout Muslims, that somehow magically lowered their odds of getting HIV. What is that? Pray it away? I'm damned skippy that there's nothing scientific about that. That whole study struck me as rather disingenuous.
     
  18. TrevinMichael

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    My point is most of us did not have a say. We were babies. As far as if it is needed this may help some. Just to add to the topic. My grandson is 6 and being cut was not covered by insurance because it was said to be not necessary or needed. Chips points are well taken. When decisions were made so long ago no that one knows when, medicine was not really even a thing. Very little was know. I feel it is a form of mutilation. But I also know I cannot change decisions that were made for me. I was 5 or 6 months old by the time I was cut. I was in an incubator for the first several months of my life due to being born early and weighing one pound 7 ounces at birth. I am sure it hurt when they cut my fore skin. I do not remember. As far is if I have a preference it is still a loving kind person. As far as the debate I am not sure what the answer is totally. I would think if no one was cut going forward we would teach each other proper cleaning tech.
     
  19. Oliverrrrr

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    I think the point about Muslims and STD or other related infections is that practicing Muslims wash all their orofices before prayer, which is 5 times a day.
     
  20. Benway

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    It didn't say anything about that in the sacred study, so I'm assuming that's not what they meant because it wasn't written down in the study. Apparently only the stuff that's in the study has any scientific weight. But because that's not not specified IN THE STUDY, I can't say that that's what they meant by that. As far as Muslims washing all their orifices goes, I'm pretty sure not all Muslims do that before prayer. Like, how could they possibly control that? Unless there's some sort of inspector who examines each guy's body before prayer, I doubt that all Muslims wash themselves before prayer. And certainly not five times a day. Maybe the most devout ones, yeah, but a regular guy? No.