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Could I give up and move on?

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by FluffyLightFox, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. FluffyLightFox

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    Hey there, it's your regular demoralizing threadstarter here, coming with another piece of thoughts, probably half rambling/ranting, but, maybe that'll help.

    This one is.. not that long so I'll just put the context in spoilers.

    Context 1 :
    "Around" me (in an internet sense), I see people struggling, with coming to terms with their sexual orientation, gender identity. I see those inspiring their network to get better and work on getting better, which even I say too occasionally. I see activism, I see friendships, I see occasional moments when people feel down. I also see those with considerably smaller problems around me IRL. I'm used to being the one people in class other students ask question to, or the one who will help their friend online/IRL, or who will help a cause. I see so many people doing an amazing job on themselves, feeling better, I see those who look happy around me, but then introspection knocks at my door and I open and it delivers me the amazing report of my state of being : I'm alternating between near "mania" (suddenly hypercreative, lots of energy, lots of will power to do things; not manic though, I don't seem to fit the symptoms for manic episodes according to the DSM-V & co.) and what really, really looks like depression, but I'm trying to stay out of it (because A) those high episodes feel nice, B) I know when the episode of "mania" fades away I've got a few weeks before I break down). I'm not out, I'm not even confident enough to say "I'm gay" to myself in my mother language, even whispering it. I see people who've been on a long journey and feel better but eventually my mind boils down everything to this one question ..

    Question 1 :
    Why should I do it? And I don't mean why should people try to work on their physical and mental health and try to accept themselves and assert their identity as much as they want, I advise everyone else to do that, but why should I do it too? I hate feeling like a hypocrite, but, I'm not everyone else.

    More context :
    For the past two weeks approximately I've been feeling good, why? School started again, I could get my mind off things and hyperfocus on reduction/oxydation equations and point products. I have people around me who will come to me for questions about school and I'll gladly help them solve their equations. I love when my brain is in focus, when there's nothing else than work, problems, exercises. I'm also back into coding a bit more, and drawing as well.
    And for a week or so I never worried about when I should come out, my long term loneliness or psychological "incidents". I haven't worried about completing my next "cycle", leaving the high phase and entering the depressive phase which outcome I know will be horrifying. For a week I didn't look at guys, I didn't feel awkward in the changing room during gym class, I didn't have the usual "oh sh!t, I'm gay" mind freeze that happens from time to time, and I've even started feeling like things around me were real again (another issue, very long to explain). I crammed every issue that came up at the same time I figured out my sexuality, everything that I tied to it (because yes, for more than two years I've been convinced none of that would have happened had I been straight or ignorant), into a box and left it there, and it worked. And yes, I'm saying it, being gay freaking destroyed my life and caused every single bit of trouble I've hard in the last three years, and I know I can't get rid of it (sadly?), but I know I can stop acknolwedging it.
    My analytical self says "that's it, don't think about how you're different in any way that'd be seen as bad or problematic, just ignore them, show your positive differences, think of what you had before those issues", and I'm agreeing here. If you change A and B happens, then why not think there's a correlation between A and B? It's basic conditions, IF (NOT A) THEN B, if 1 then <commands>.

    Final question :
    So if I've found a way to deal with it, and even if it won't work all the time, why should I find the courage to come out? Why should I go see a therapist? Why should I work on my language problems? Why should I want to try to put myself out there to date? Why should I want a relationship? Or an honest connection with my parents? Or confronting my issues when it's clear that if I stop ruminating about them I see things things brither instead of a foggy reality tainted by depressive thoughts?
    Why can't I just be the quirky furry memelord who codes and draws and studies well? Why do I also have to be the gay teenager who's dealing with gods-know-what in his mind, who has made zero progress towards coming out and when he does eventually slides back to square one, who has self harm scars all over his arm, all of that jazz because he couldn't accept the fact that he's gay, back when he didn't know English, and all the hardships that will come with that?
    Why couldn't I stop acknowledging the issues I'm sure I partly, unintentionally, created myself are there and simply focus on the rest?
    Why should I continue pointing out to myself that I'm different, in a bad way, from everyone else? Couldn't I just scrap out every bad bit and convince myself there's no issue, and then live a life, not of lies (I ain't saying I wanna fool people into thinking I'm straight), but of distraction, supporting others, school work, programming projects and drawing?

    Couldn't I just accept that I've given up on finding that kind of happiness, and move on? I know it will most likely not work for many people, and I wouldn't recommend it to them, but it seems to work to me. Is that reasoning faulty?

    On that note, have a good day.
     
  2. DownsideUp

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    Why you should come out and tell people you are gay? You don't have to accually, it's just that when you acknowledge it, you become a different person. You are not who you once were. Now, you are changed and you can't act like you are the one you used to be. I don't think you can give up on that happiness and move on because It's really exciting to like who you like. I think you have right to try to avoid it but can it really make you feel better? Or will it make you feel like some other person?
     
  3. Eyelashes

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    Okay, I read your text, and I want to give answering my best shot.
    The situation you describe vaguely reminds me of a situation I was in a few years ago. Along with going through my initial phase of doubt about my sexuality, I was also batteling an eating disorder. In order to have the peace and quiet required to heal, I stopped thinking about my sexuality for a while in order to be fully commited to this one thing. And it worked, I overcame my eating disorder, and I would say that I today have a better relationship with food than the vast majority of people. Besides healing I focused on my academics, politics and helping other, just like you describe.
    And while it definitively helped me to pause the "sexuality-doubts"-train for a while, I know that stopping those feelings forever wouldn't be the right thing for me. I just know that I need to come to terms with this side of me to live my life to the fullest. But that might not apply to everyone. When I picked everything back up, I had become older and less emotionally unstable, and therefore I was able to handle it better. And of course you know yourself a lot better than I know you, and I don't know if something similar would apply for you.
    I guess what I really want to say it that if you do decide to let it go it doesn't neccesarily have to be forever. Unless that is what you want? Maybe someday it will feel right for you to pick it up again, and if you do, everything might look different.

    Keep in mind that I am no professional, so do what feels right for you. Or maybe even go see a professional about it.

    Lots of love
     
  4. FluffyLightFox

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    I agree, not everyone needs to come out. I did want to do it, back when I felt like it was the only way I could truly connect with my family, and put myself out there, but I don't want to care about those things any more.
    Acknowledging that part of my identity has turned me from a kid with good potential to a pile of human garbage barely able to reckon reality around him. If I had had a choice, I'd have picked a better option, and honestly, if I could, I'd reverse back before puberty (I do remember looking up how to modify my nutrition at some point to mess up my body's development in the hormone department, I didn't go through with it though, it was too unrealistic; and it's too late now).

    I don't know if it's the depressive thoughts altering my views but attraction has become poorer and poorer for me. Maybe ignoring it exists is the best, as it seems to gradually fade.
    Plus, I don't think giving up on something A° hypothetical and B° hard to reach, for instead getting well with an easier solution that works (and it does work for now) is in any way bad. I do feel better, and if my analytical mind is telling me that has to do with thinking less and less about me being gay, then, I trust it. It doesn't make me feel like another person either, it makes me feel like the person who I want to be, a mix of the good parts of old-sane me and the good parts of new-quirky me, without the dark worrying part.
    My only concern really relies on my method of medication but, answering your questions, I'm starting to believe it will actually work. I don't think I'll push it to denial, where I'd not admit it if someone brings up the topic and asks me. So it seems rather healthy, and yet it goes against anything I'd advise to anyone else, which is my second concern. Your answer, though, helped me clarify my position on the first issue.

    I'm sorry for what happened to you, but glad at the same time that you made it out well.
    I'd say you are mostly right, except, in my case, I've understood my sexuality, and I accept I cannot change it. I'm not shy about it (online), and I enjoyed some aspects of it in the past, though not in a while now. But with it also came all of the problems, and those are what worsened my isolation, created a long period of depression, brought me to self harm in the past, etc. All of that was, at most, two years ago. Now I still need to deal with some of the fallout (self harm urges, occasional suicidal thoughts, maybe dissociation), but I'm getting better, and that coincides with me progressively ignoring anything I tied to my findings as a young teenager : if I block my thoughts for guys, if I don't think about finding a boyfriend, if I stop worrying about coming out, about being persecuted, it works. I won't ignore other people's troubles, but mine, not stemming from outside influence, is ignorable. It's not worth paying attention to. Maybe it's some kind of sick unconscious fabrication of my mind, which wanted attention from me, or some other people.
    I know it sounds like erasing parts of me, which, it does, it is, in a way. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but it works with me. I think you're right, I should go on. It doesn't hurt me so far.

    Another point is that contrary to you I don't set aside figuring out a part of me to focus on curing the other issues : I'm curing those issues by setting aside the acknowledgement of that part of who I am, of what brought those issues to life. So, I don't know how long it will last, but if I don't think about it, maybe I won't regret never finding someone or never living bidirectional romance. After all, plenty of LGB (and T as well) adults are just as miserable when it comes to those things, but wouldn't have been better off as cisgender heterosexual, because that's not possible, and that's rejecting a part of their identity. And most of them have accepted themselves. That doesn't mean happiness, it's still a game of chance. I, on the other hand, seem to benefit the ignoring of the needs those pieces of my identity create, as well as the darkness they brought with them. I'm still here if someone ever makes a move towards me, although for their own sake I'd refuse a relationship, even if I liked them. You can't be damaged if you never play. That way I'll win, being a passive participant in that area of the game of life. And I won't regret giving up on love, honesty, pride, and, heck, even sex. If it means I won't need therapy I'm up for it. I have maths, why should I care?
    After all, it can't hurt you if you don't care about it.

    Both your comments seem to indicate me that maybe I'm overthinking it. I think what I'm doing is indeed right, and despite me never wanting to recommend it to others, maybe it's what fits me. I still have a doubt about that though.. but maybe sometimes you do things you wouldn't recommend other people doing, and that's okay.

    Thanks to you all, it seems clearer now. :thumbsup:
     
  5. FugaciousFellow

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    Hello, FluffyLightFox! ( : I've been lurking around this site for a few months now, but have been inspired to create an account to respond to this post. It’s certainly one of the most interesting ones I've seen here, and there are some good points I think are worth talking through. I'm not sure if I will have any more insight to provide on the matter than has already been provided, but nonetheless I think it still merits a response. I'll try to work my way through everything systematically for clarity’s sake, but forgive me if the formatting becomes a bit jumbled. This is my first post after all, and while I expect the syntax to be fairly intuitive, I might have misinterpreted some of the commands.

    I’m not a psychologist, nor have I made much of an effort to research the same mental conditions that I may very well have, but I did find it at least somewhat encouraging that your “near-manic” high episodes are not so extreme as to be disruptive or concerning, from your perspective. You seem to have an understanding of what it is you are experiencing, to the extent that you’ve checked the DSM-V & co and have a general sense of the timeline of your cycles. When you say you are “trying to stay out of it” here, is that in reference to the approach you laid out later in your post about not investing so much time and brain power into thinking about those issues? I guess what I’m really wondering is how consistently the cycle plays out for you, if you have managed to break out of it in the past, and if in some way you have found not thinking about the depressive phase delays or even prevents its arrival.

    Going along with my earlier train of thought, while you do seem to benefit from the high episodes, the regularity and undesirability of the depressive phase, from what you’ve said, does seem to be a noticeable hindrance to your life. I’m not entirely comfortable saying you should just accept the quasi-manic episodes, but for the sake of not sounding hypocritical (see Spoiler #1) I will say that they do not seem to be something you need to focus on for the time being. Are there perhaps unforeseen consequences of being in that state? Quite possibly. But to address your first question, I think it would be more prudent to look at the depression side of it. If we take what I observed earlier about your being fairly self-aware when it comes to your particular mental state, I think it’s interesting that you can both acknowledge the depressive phase and not consider it justification enough to “work on [your] physical and mental health.” The next portion has more of an emphasis on the role being gay plays in all of that, so I’ll hold off on addressing the part about accepting your identity until then.

    Mostly irrelevant context: Spoiler #1

    So, I mentioned being hypocritical earlier and I figured I could toss in a tangentially related experience that I’ve been having lately. I’ve certainly not been diagnosed, rightly so, as having some variation of bipolar disorder—having been almost entirely limited to having long bouts of depression instead—but I have discovered myself to have an inducible state of not-quite-mania. This initially manifested as the result of a particularly sleep-depriving studying session that left me getting a mere three hours of rest that night. The next day, contrary to my expectations, and maybe even to common sense, I did not feel tired in the slightest. Quite the opposite, I was invigorated for a whole twelve hour time frame, more so than I’d been for the entire previous month collectively. It was the best I’d felt in a long time. In addition to not feeling tired, I also found myself gratefully unable to experience the sensation of hunger, allowing me to work when I normally would have eaten lunch, nor was there any feeling associated with temperature. For reference’s sake, I should note that my skin is naturally colder than almost every single person I’ve encountered, except perhaps my sister, and that particular winter day consisted of below-freezing temperatures. I found that I was not only able to walk around in nothing but my shirt and pants, but also immune to developing any cold-related physical illnesses in the coming days. It was altogether an exhilarating experience that propelled me out of my sense of hopelessness and despair for a time, and let me be more productive than I’d ever been. Naturally, however, sleep deprivation, even if I don’t feel it, and not having innate self-preservation instincts are not things I would encourage to others. I do, nonetheless, find myself using this phenomenon to my benefit, whether it is to preemptively avoid particularly cold days (I do so despise the cold), or give myself the drive to complete school work, and such. Would I recommend that approach to others? Certainly not, but it does work for me, as the high episodes seem to work for you.

    I think that’s a great mindset to be in! The obvious enjoyment you take out of the school work you do, helping others, and even getting back into some hobbies of yours is really amazing to behold.

    Completely irrelevant side note: Spoiler #2

    You mentioned oxidation/reduction reactions (one of my favorite parts of learning chemistry, among many!) and I couldn’t help being reminded of the fact that one of the biggest regrets of my high school experience has been letting my dad’s disillusionment keep me from further pursuing advanced chemistry.

    My creative prowess, if it exists, is mostly reflected in writing, particularly poetry (though I’ve hardly written any in months), but I was quite interested in coding for some time! I’ve taken all the available courses in my school related to it, and even, at one point, participated as a programmer on my school’s robotics team. Not being able to explore it within a class setting, experiencing overwhelming depression, and, again, allowing myself to be affected dad’s disillusionment all prevented me from continuing that passion this year, however. Just this weekend, the robotics team of which I am no longer a part had went away for its first competition, in fact. I’ve yet to write a line of code in at least a few months, as well. I just thought it was nice to see the connection, however invalid it now is, to what you were talking about.

    But I digress. : P

    There were a number of things that caught my attention from this paragraph. In the beginning you talk about not worrying about all of those things that have been bothering you: completing the cycle, acknowledging your sexuality, and long term loneliness. To an extent, I think there’s definitely an importance to not worrying, at least not gratuitously. If it is the thinking, often excessively, about those things and not the things themselves that is keeping you from being in whatever state you hope to attain, then by all means, don’t think too much about them. However, some of the conditions you highlighted don’t seem to be ones that simply vanish if you stop thinking about them. I suppose I’m trying to see how you distinguish between anxiety-provoking/depression-inducing/futile thoughts about the thing (whatever it may be in the context) and thoughts evoked by the thing itself.


    This. This stopped me in my tracks the first time I read it, and is perhaps one of the most striking aspects of your original post. I’m not going to lie and say I haven’t felt that way before. I have…all the time. So many things in my life seem like they would have been easier if I were straight. One of my best friends is a girl who I could spend hours with just talking, listening to music, doing anything really. I care more about her than almost anyone and would do anything for her. At one point she expressed her interest in me, to which I told her first how amazing I think she was and how much I value our relationship, and then that I’m gay. In some parallel universe, we would have been completely inseparable, and I would have been emotionally content on that front. It would have been both of our first relationships, but we would have experienced it together. That is not my reality. Being gay has definitely played a role in crippling my self-esteem, and, mental illness aside, has definitely led to emotional and mental turmoil on its own (story for another time, perhaps). It is yet another thing that will forever lie between me and my parents, and my inability to tell them, their inability to understand if I did, is only exacerbating our fragmented connection. I’d accepted I was gay sometime early last year when all of the little moments I’d been having (in locker rooms, watching TV, etc.) coalesced and took the form of one boy in particular. I can definitively say that life was simpler and easier before then, but I’m not sure correlation necessarily implies causation in this case. I wasn’t ruled by depression and anxiety, nor was I entirely incapacitated by my abysmal self-esteem. I was still coding, writing poetry, getting good grades, feeling completely isolated from my friends and family, but what I can confidently say is that I wasn’t altogether living in and experiencing each moment. While I do have memory issues that should probably be concerning, I also know that there wasn’t much worth remembering from that time, so to speak. Were there moments I enjoyed? Certainly, and they probably occurred in a much higher frequency than they do now. However, all of the suffering, all of the mental anguish, it may not have made me a better person than I was, and not at all more “productive” or “successful however you’d define that, but it did make it all feel real. Even if all I do with this understanding is sit back and observe the apparent unreality of the way others live, it feels self-justifying to have experienced all of it. Okay, it’s official, I’m a (self-deprecating) delusional masochist. XD

    What was supposed to be the takeaway from all of that before I devolved a bit is that I do not think one can conclusively assign all of the blame to being gay. Who we are is so much more than the little categorizations we use to describe ourselves, and it seems to me like trying to reduce your identity, if that makes sense. Okay, moving right along…

    Oh my, this is turning absurdly long, and I truly must apologize, but there’s just so much to look at and I want to give your post the attention it deserves.

    I really don’t want all of those issues to bog you down and keep you from doing what you find meaningful, be it coding, drawing, helping others, being a quirky furry memelord, or anything else. If you find ultimately that your form of medication allows you to do that, to live the life you want to live, then I cannot tell you not to pursue that approach. I would, however, say that the two need not necessarily be mutually exclusive. You can think of all the other stuff associated with your being gay as complementary to the rest of you, the parts of you that you take most pride in and value most. It is, I’d say, as much of who you are as anything else, and, I find, an intriguing component of your identity. I don’t know if you can find some way to fully coexist with yourself, or if you’d even want to do that, or find it fulfilling in any way. I can only say that there will be people, like me, who’d want to know you for the code-writing drawing-drawing (lol there’s no good way to make than an adjective) quirky furry memelord as well as the struggling, self-harm-scarred, emotionally-cycling closeted gay who is also a human being.

    Okay, I think that’s enough, probably too much, for anyone to wade through. My 8th grade English teacher always said I need to learn to exercise the “art of concision.”

    Likewise, FluffyLightFox. ( :

    EDIT: It just occurred to me to do a word count of all of this. Overall, it’s at 2,380, with my words making up around 2,000 of it. Haha!
     
    #5 FugaciousFellow, Mar 20, 2017
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  6. Monraffe

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    Yeah, really high word count on this thread. I liked your original post. I was reluctant to say this... because it might go to your head. lol. But I really do mean it. I do think you are a special person but... too special to be gay? Okay let's just drop that and get to the real point. Why is all of this crap happening to you? Well, because you are a fucking human. And I don't mean a human who fucks, I mean a fucking human. Like it or not, you have been programmed to be a human. Yes, yes, yes, there is much more to you than that, I do believe that is true, but like it or not, you are human with human needs and emotions and you MUST follow your program or end up being a really unhappy human, which is not a good state for you. Because you are human. Here is a hint for you – learn all you can about the life of Thomas Jefferson. I know, totally weird thing to say, but trust me, he is your savior. Learn all you can about his life. And follow his advice. He was in your place, minus the gay part probably... maybe... IDK, well anyway, he solved your problem and he wrote about it. So if you follow his advice you will fix your problem. And become that thing that is above being human... the seventh chakar... who knows... maybe... anyway, that's what I advise. Look into Thomas Jefferson.
     
    #6 Monraffe, Mar 21, 2017
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  7. FluffyLightFox

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    OK, I'll try to cut down my speech and nest it into spoilers because this thread is getting insanely long.

    In response to Monraffe :
    ^ This

    Somehow I laugh when I hear that. Seriously if something goes to my head I'll make sure it leaves it, no matter the method I use. I seriously hate being (and to some degree, sounding) pretentious.

    I don't feel special, I just don't feel like I need to do all the work that other people do when they're in similar situation (either by laziness or worse). And if you're talking about my hobbies : I'm not special. I'm just someone who likes exhausting himself till he passes out using complicated, useless and esoteric problems.

    Programming errors happen, even in nature. I mean, I know some genetics, that thing is buggy as heck. Sometimes you even get stupid mistakes! Imagine a humain waiting to reach state HAPPY but with no mean or method to get there? Pretty bad programming I'd say. Fire the devs I'd say.

    Good thing you remind me of that because sometimes even I forget it (and I'm not kidding). Again it's easier to ignore your needs and emotions. Funny story : I remember conditioning myself to ignore my hunger to the point where I'd feel like passing out before feeling hunger (but when I did feel it, oh boy, it hurt).

    That's weird, but, okay, I'll look into it when I have time.

    I'm almost convinced there's a fanfic somewhere about that. Trust me.

    When I find some time for it I'll look into the writings of Mister Jefferson.

    And the big answer to FugaciousFellow :
    Prepare yourself. It's long. Also, sorry if some tags are messed up in there, or if my words do not seem on point or really accurate, but I really don't have the energy to triple check everything in here. Furthermore, you may notice that when I feel like people are genuinely trying to help me I distance myself using sarcasm. It's normal. Well it's not, but I know it's for me.
    Enjoy.

    If you've read my statement above you know you're not gonna convince me of anything with the "Let's try to tame them first" kind of approach. I'm sorry, but really, this seems supicious. I may be a bit paranoid, but being nice in the first sentences is usually a red flag for me.

    Honestly they're the only moments (from "waking up" after the breakdown to the energy filling me fading away) when I can work, socialize, think, and create in peace and properly. Then I dive into the grey area where none of that becomes really possible and I'm a dead man walking just waiting for the next wave to hit me.

    Yes. Pretty much consistent. No. No but kind of. And No.

    When I say I'm trying to stay out of it, I'm referring (I think) to the state of worrying about everything I mentionned I'm trying to ignore, by ignoring said things. Although, honestly, if I were in control of what my brain is doing, I wouldn't be here rambling about my issues. Sometimes it's just impossible, when my mind has gone down the dark roads there's nothing stopping it. It's like a dark mass growing, exponentially, out of control.
    The cycles have really started to clearly appear to me about a year after I started feeling really depressed (so they appeared somewhere in early 2016, if I remember well), which is when I started using an app to try and keep track of my dark episodes. Since then they've been pretty consistent, if not in span, in the sequence of feelings.
    I have never managed to break out of the cycle. I have managed to delay the breakdown's climax (self harm and/or attempt at strangulating myself until I either A° die B° pass out and wake up) in the past, for not more than a week, by using (word choice intended) my then boyfriend (because, hey, for it to be an unhealthy relationship, someone has to make things unhealthy by creating dependency).
    Finally I've tried not focusing on the depressive thoughts. It's worse. When the time comes, there's nothing I can do to stop it. I suddenly find an impossible amount of energy and my brain spends it all on spamming me with those dark thoughts. If I try to think about something else, it will remind me. If I try to confront them, so will it. If I try to relax/meditate, same thing. It's unstoppable once it happens, hence me trying to elongate the higher phase as much as possible, which is the only thing I haven't tried yet.

    I would if I could, but, well, see above.
    Also, no, therapy isn't an option. My depressive thoughts often manifest themselves outwards to other people by actions of self deprecation, sabotage or self destruction. Since I'm very young (read: first grade), I've always acted like that. It just calmed down at the end of primary school. But anyways. Why isn't therapy an option? Well, my parents really hate the fact that I have been self deprecating and self destructive as a kid which led them to have meetings with the psychologist at my primary school. They learnt the pattern : self destruction = trouble making = we're gonna look like bad parents. Their mind links "my son has to see a psychologist" with "I'm a bad parent", or at least that's the message I read between the lines. I know it's a bad way of conceiving parenting but I'm better off waiting to try and kill myself for them to react rather than having them go through "parenting a crazy kid 101".
    So, no hope of helping with the depressive thoughts unless it comes from me. Next!

    I do see what you mean, but for the reasons mentionned above, I have already given up on most (conventional) methods of working on my mental state. I have tried everything I could (and frankly I do not have that much time, when I approach the dark phase my mind just thinks "It's useless. We know the drill. What's the point of trying? We're already dead. Plus it feels nice. Yeah, self destruction really feels super nice. Maybe even better than feeling well. It's easier. We like that. We want that"), hence me eventually wondering "why is me having bad mental health a justification for trying to fix it? It's not like I have an option anyways".

    Same thing happened one day to me when I didn't sleep at all to finish a school project. I attribute it to adrenaline. The body, if forced correctly, can go against its own well being, in which case it will use extreme methods to keep functioning. Plus, if you're stressed about an exam, there's some adrenaline that's gonna help you. I think that's the body thinking "oh boy, it's daytime, I need to stay energized or otherwise I'll fall asleep". The hunger part may just be your body clock not knowing where the heck you're even at since you haven't slept. I'm not a physician, so, I can only speculate.
    Not being cold could, again, relate to your mind ignoring some stimuli because it is on high alert (if I remember correctly not being able to sleep at night was considered being in a general state of alert, you know, back when we hit silexes together to spark some leaves and sticks alit).

    Nice! Most people see it as dangerously obsessive and even I attribute it to a learnt need to focus as much as possible on something other than the bad thoughts, and away from emotions (because they're nasty unstable b**ches). Plus, brain aching problems are the only thing I've been consistently good at (more or less) since I'm young so, I might as well specialize in something I'm good at.

    True, but as for thinking about the issues directly, I observed that it doesn't help at all. Eventually something (often related to another issue brought on by me realizing I'm gay, or by me realizing I'm gay) will make me think of them, at the right time, and it will evolve into a breakdown. I'm eventually going to obsess over those issues but at that point I'm too far gone. That's part of what will feed the cycle until it ends (eg. "Why am I like that? // You're just doing that for attention, aren't you? // You know this is gonna happen, stop fighting // What are you gonna do, cry? You're pathetic // See, I'm always here with you // There is no exit. There is no reason.")

    But what if I don't think about what brought them to be? I'm positive the first depressive experiences I've had were a mix of a bit of stress from moving away combined with the big realization that "snap! I'm gay! I'm gonna have a pretty rough time!" (almost; it was in French and in rather darker and more vulgar terms).

    It was really itching, I wanted to say it for a while.

    Welcome to the game. Currently playing : millions of desperate players.

    Sorry for that. Sometimes you can just tell parents aren't ready to have that kind of relationship and honesty with their kid. I just hope you don't get outed / out yourself (watch for the pronouns you use, they're tricky, even though you english people have gender neutral pronouns, which, we, French idiots, don't have).

    I don't know if I'm really being mean or sarcastic or whatever but, really, the chances that he could be into you are astronomically low, like it would be for any of us. Your first crush will be a crippling experience and will remind you forever that you do not get to be like others because some switch is broken, some variable is set wrong, something has been altered with you, with us, at some point from the moment we were a simple cell to now. My first crush was on my straight best friend and I've cried to sleep thinking about him and how I could never tell him more time than I can remember. For you own sake, forget about yours. If you get into that game, you'll lose. Nobody can win a game rigged against them.

    Right. Couldn't we just all go back before puberty? Before high school? Before crushes? It was such a good time in retrospect.
    Wait no actually forget about that. Terrible idea. Kids are terrible humain beings. I don't wanna be one again.

    I think the contrary. You said it yourself : weren't you happy before you found out the nature of your feelings? Same thing here. It's not being gay that's bad. I'm not saying that. I've accepted my nature (because, really, I have so many messed up traits I might as well have something that's a bit better in comparison). It's acknowledging your nature and finding out the consequences that is mind crippling.

    Being honest with you, reality right now is not what it used to be to me. I'm seriously in an almost constant state of (maybe?) derealization. Most of the time I'm thinking "this is unreal, I'm not here, nothing is real, nothing exists, nothing is true", because everything is the same. I'm not feeling touch other than in pressure. I'm not feeling hot, or cold, or wet. I'm not seeing depth, colours, emotions. I see shapes. I see repeated actions. I learn to go by my day by instinct. Nothing needs to be real, but at the same time, I wish it were, because people seem to really enjoy that unreal reality of theirs while I sit there feeling as though I'm playing a cr*ppy FPS.
    Only physical pain makes me feel real. That and being in the high phase.
    Also, it's a given that productivity and success (however one defines it) will be hindered by such a state of turmoil. What's astonishing to me, really, is that never once has someone stepped in and said "maybe you're not doing okay, let's talk about it". Maybe that's what everyone goes through and I'm simply a whiny brat. Maybe we're simply whiny brats. Who knows.

    You do you. I do me. We don't do each other.
    I mean if that's what makes it for you I'm not gonna judge.

    But I need a reason don't I? I can't just say "oh! criminy! my serotonin is so low for some reason completely unrelated to the realization of the social rejection I will most likely experience due to an unmutable part of my identity! I should see my parents about that very soon!".
    I can retrace everything back to there. It awoke my self destructive traits, stayed dormant since I was younger. It led me to a state of depression, to self harm. It is the cause. I wish I could have been different. But it's pointless to which for something that's impossible.

    YES, you got it! Remember the part where I said I tried to mess up my hormonal growth? I know I can't get attracted to females (because, just, no), but even if I can not create, I can destroy. Destroying is so much easier! That is what I did, I tried, many and many times, to destroy my attraction for males. I substituted masturbation with self harm. I "mutilated" my genitals (a few cuts here and there; pubic and penile skin grow back incredibly quickly, I learnt) so that it'd hurt. I freaking tried to stop my hormonal growth by bleeding myself regularly (until the scars were too much; that's why I can't feel a lot on my right arm; so, it was only for a few days, really). If I could, I would gladly give up on that. Because I'm more than that, but it's crippling me. And not thinking about it is the best way I can erase that part of identity. I don't want to be straight, because that's impossible, but I would certainly never have wanted to be gay. Give me asexual (which isn't possible, but, you know; chemical castration is just as good when it comes to me). PLEASE.

    It deserves none. I'm just a whiny kid whose inner monologue about acceptance and the stigma of his identity, which makes up for his lack of socialising, needs some external input. I can't even say I'm joking here. Even I am not sure any more what is true for my mind and what is not, and how many levels of pre-thinking I'm going through sometimes. Second guessing your intentions again and again truly is a wonderful experience.

    Thanks. It does seem to produce some pretty interesting effects, except that not thinking about guys when you're aware that you must not is simply harder than I thought it would be.

    I mean, every time I've reached some sort of equilibrium in my life I found a way to wreck it so, maybe I'm just a lost cause. But hey, hope makes us live, right? It's also a powerful poison for the mind. Hope maintains us alive long enough to feel even more hurt.

    Ahahah, you'd not be able to tolerate the dark me the slightest. Trust me. I would use you, like I did with my ex boyfriend, and my friend. I'm not really a sad self harmer any more, I'm more of the crazy kind who will drive some sort of dark pleasure from seeing those around him try to help him in vain (probably because my inner sense of bad self esteem needs to be put into question for it to grow more powerful, some like that, or maybe I like to see others around me feel bad for me and I give them material, who knows). And don't try to be clever. I'm good at alienating and isolating myself from everyone else. I've been practising that for a long time.
    The "struggling, self-harm-scarred, emotionally-cycling closeted gay" me should die, and I'm gonna focus on the gay part to bring everything else down, since it's the only bit I haven't tried to cut away, and was there first.

    All of my teachers say that too. Just saying. Concision is confusion for me. Clarity through verbose.

    *clap* *clap/2*
    Good job.

    So in update : trying to not think about something while remembering not to think about it has proven to be harder than I thought, so now every time I think about guys I proposed I pinch myself. Sounds fair. Otherwise things are going normal, and mostly like I planned (i.e. my state is worsening a bit because I'm remembering).

    Good day to everyone, and especially those who wasted their time reading this whole post. You deserve.. my gratitude? Probably, but it's from me, worth nothing, not even a can of coke.
    Anyway.. Good day to y'all.
     
  8. FugaciousFellow

    Regular Member

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    I’ll keep the most relevant part outside of the spoiler. If this ends up being all you read, so be it. I started writing this response a couple of days after your post, but decided, for reasons that will soon be made clear, to postpone posting it. I did not intend to wait this long, but perhaps this is a better time for it than before.

    Your new approach with the pinching might let you reach the goal you set for yourself, of not thinking about being gay and everything associated with it. The premise of it, I suppose, would be for the mild pain stimulated by those thoughts to serve as some negative feedback loop for your having those thoughts. I’ve never attempted anything like that, so I wouldn’t know from experience (nor from research) how effective it is.

    Well, all that can really be done now (by me, at least) is waiting to see how it pans out, and if it does in fact work for you. On that note, If remembering or acknowledging is causing your state to worsen, would that mean that continuing to respond to this thread is doing more harm than good? Either way, I hope you’ll consider keeping us updated on how your state progresses.

    I suppose it’s been long enough for you to observe a change, if any did occur. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on all of this now that some time has passed.

    (Proceed for more ramblings from a fugacious fellow to a fluffy fox, if you so choose.)
    If you find that my quoting is making these responses more cumbersome than they need to be, I can limit it or even stop entirely (That is, assuming any of this even merits a response from which to quote).

    I, to the best of my ability, shall do the same.

    I’ll keep that in mind.


    I’m not trying to convince you of anything. Believe what you want to believe; think what you want to think; do what you want to do. Ultimately, my opinions don’t matter and are not intended to have any affect on your own. Besides, I wouldn’t change your mind even if I could.

    I just figured some politeness by way of introduction would be preferred, but I see how that might come of as not being genuine. After all, you really don’t have any reason to read anything I post, so I was trying not to immediately discourage you from doing so. Seems that had the opposite effect as intended. This is the only post I’ve seen thus far that I felt I could even remotely relate and respond to; that is all I meant.

    Well, at least those high moments are a constant upon which you can depend (if your cycle is anything to go by), and allow you to do all those things. The way you’ve described the cycles, it conjures an image of some sinusoidal wave. You might be able to dilate it enough to elongate the period, but it always repeats itself. Not the most optimistic of lenses, but maybe there’s some solace in consistency.


    I think there’s something to be said for your then-boyfriend’s ability, however inadvertently, to allow you to delay the climax. I wonder what it was about him that made that possible, or if it was just a manifestation of distracting yourself. If, as you make it seem, it became a matter of manipulation, or relying upon him, then I could see how the relationship would be unhealthy.

    That sounds completely overwhelming, especially since, as you said later on, you’ve tried conventional methods of self-help with no success, and therapy is off the table (Not sure if it’s just my experience, but I haven’t found therapy to be much help anyway. I’d recommend other people to at least try it, of course, but you made it clear that it’s not an option for you). With all that it mind, there’s definitely a sense of hopelessness and inevitability to your situation. I do have to admit that being gay has not been much of a benefit for me, and certainly hasn’t helped with any of the things I do find important (definitely a hindrance in some of them); I’m still hesitant to lay all the blame on that aspect of myself, but I understand why you wouldn’t want to acknowledge it, especially if not doing so benefits you in other ways by delaying the cycle.

    Maybe it is obsessive by some people’s standards, but even if it is, it’s a good and productive obsession to have. Having that ability to hyper-focus seems like a great way to distract yourself, and highlights some innate skill you have to excel at those kinds of things from a young age.

    (I’m not really in a position to comment on the derealization part. In truth, I’m not even sure what it means for something to be real, in that sense.)

    Completely Irrelevant section about myself: (there’s really no reason to even bother reading it)
    (Even if it’s said with good intentions, it’s that italicized phrase that raises red flags for me. It’s always felt like a meaningless thing to say. Maybe that’s just me, I dunno. In any case, I can look past it.)

    A benefit of not being close to them is that we never actually talk about anything related to my experience with romance (nonexistent) or sexuality, so I guess I don’t have to worry about outing myself. I’m also far too controlled in how I express myself to slip up that much, anyway. My friends who know would never be in a position to reveal that to my parents, and though my sister might slip, I don’t really care at this point. Besides, assuming my recent failure and otherwise complete botching of the college admissions process do not result in my getting rejected from literally every school I’ve applied to, I won’t even have to deal with that next year, at least not to the same extent.

    I’d call it blunt realism (my favorite kind), if anything. I’ve already gone down that road when, on some December night, after a mortifying school performance, receiving the worst semester grade I’d ever received in the most important class for me, and a confrontation with my family that was even more destabilizing than usual, I decided to destroy the one relationship I did care about: my friendship with that boy. Now, by that point, I’d already resigned myself to the fact that I would never be in (or allow myself to be in) any meaningful relationship beyond friendship, with anyone; it was just a matter of turning an infinitesimally small probability into zero. Even before I’d come to terms with being gay, I’d known that I would never let myself get married, never let myself have children. I had no intention of there being even a remotely favorable outcome to the message I’d sent him, in which I not only told him what I’ve been feeling, but also offered to completely remove myself from his life. So yes, you’re completely right, the game is rigged, but my version of it has been made impossible by none other than myself, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

    Somehow, I’m actually encouraged by this. The idea of a “healthy” relationship, friendship or otherwise, has always seemed very bland to me, in a way. Maybe that’s a result of bearing witness to my parents’ relationship over the years, moving around as I was growing up and thus never developing any close friendships, or my recent sense of separation from my sister (with whom I should connect more than anyone else, by virtue of our sharing most of our life experiences)—but it doesn’t really matter why I think that. I said I would want to know you because of that part of you, not in spite of it; I find it, and you, interesting in some borderline-twisted way. There are kinds of interactions that hold no appeal to me; it’s insufferable, really, having to endure meaningless words and empty gestures. People are just so caught up in their own positive feedback loops of self-gratification to even question why they want to be happy in the first place, what the point of it all is. You do not seem to be that kind of person. That could just be me, but then I’ve never been one to care much about my own wellbeing or gratification.

    Again, I’m more than willing to leave it at that, if you want. The only people who’d even bother reading that are you and maybe some administrator lurking behind a computer in a world that is not ours, and even then you’ve probably realized there’s no reason to do so by now. Just say the word and this fugacious fellow will disappear.
     
  9. FluffyLightFox

    Regular Member

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    Honestly.. I feel like I don't know what to believe in any more..
    Despite my bests efforts I couldn't stretch the cycle eternally. I relapsed. Twice. It did stretch it for a long time but then, I don't know, my mood got weirdly unstable. Now I'm alternating between terrible mood and feeling good with almost little effort and anything can bring me down to very dark territories. My system is chaotic, and I can't anticipate anything any more..

    Obviously forgetting didn't work. Ignoring doesn't work. My mind's too much of a mess to forget anything, and it will always find a way to mess me up eventually..

    And now.. the specifics

    Yeah, well, now I know it's not effective. Either I'm too weak mentally speaking for it to work or it's not working at all. That's how science works.. We try.. we fail.. But I'm now left with no hope of taming my unstable mood and its darker shades..

    I'm just being mean to you. That's it. That's a small taste of how nasty the hate-craving me can be. You can't handle him. Nobody can. Because he'll make sure that he can't be handled.

    I acknowledge your politeness as genuine and apologize if anything I said hurt you.


    The high periods should be predictable if the models works but over the past two/three weeks it failed me miserably for the first time in about 2 years.. It couldn't anticipate my last self harm relapse, for example. My high phases are no longer predictable either. They happen, usually after I break down, but I can't say when they'll end, when after the recovery they'll start, etc. Those states of high energy are also conditioned by my external environment, like they've always been to some extent.

    Here's from my POV what happened. I could gather most of it after I read again our conversation that night. I was breaking down, hitting the lowest part of the cycle, and I felt the intense urge to hurt myself. I had been avoiding him for a few days because that's what I do when I slide down, I isolate myself and ignore others (isolation is actually an alert signal telling me it's too late). So I took my phone and told him I was gonna have to cut myself again because it was the only thing that could save me and out relationship (pretty messed up, right?), after which he stayed and texted with me until the dark phase had ended. By that time I didn't feel the urge of hurting myself, I felt.. I don't know, a warm feeling, like when you feel you're cherished and desired fully in an affectionate way.. So that calmed me and I was able to hold the urge, up until later when we broke up.
    That's why I feel like I used him. I did tell him I was going to cut myself out of honesty and hope he'd approve of my actions, but it ended up in a situation where he offered me help and calmed me down only to have me declare him as the "only one ever" who could stop my urges, putting the weigth of having to deal with me for as long as we'd be together and feel guilty if I ever relapsed because of his absence (which I did).

    I told you, whatever I do, my mind will always find a way to mess with me. That's how my life has been constantly going for as long as I can remember. Self destruction is a coping mechanism for me since I'm in fricking preschool. It's engraved within me now.

    Here's a little analogy I created. If you were sick with an illness that nobody could cure but yourself, and the only thing you had never tried was letting go of your sexual instincts, what else would you do? I have nothing else to try. Relaxation doesn't work. Friends don't work. Nothing works that'd not require me to be in an abusive relationship. I'm trapped.. Sure, being gay doesn't help, with many things, for many people, including the both of us, but if it isn't the cause of my misery then that means I am helpless, and I don't want to consider that true because the options (well, there's only one) left after that has been established are all grim.

    It can prove to be really problematic though. If I "hyper-focus" during a test for example, I'll be more likely to get stuck on tricky questions, or get anxious or frustrated. It's a tight balance between boosting my focus and working well. It can also be very positive, like when I write a bit or draw.

    I'm not exactly sure what part of the quotation you were refering to since in quotation style everything is italicized...

    I'm sorry for the situation that you're going through.. I'm not responsible for it, but I wish for you that things get better and hopefully your support network will be there for you at all times.

    Welcome to the wonderful realm of self destructive people. I hope your stay will be enjoyable. It usually is, which is why so many people never leave. Once you come here, you don't go back.

    Sometimes I wonder if people around me are even more into punishing themselves than I am, and in case that "healthy" was meant to also include truly healthy relationships then you have issues that are worth being resolved quickly (contrary to mine, they're here to stay). If it's not then it's just another piece of linguistic complexity that flew right over my mind (you know, because I'm bad at understanding irony and sarcasm sometimes).
    I don't know what else to say.. thanks? I find the complexity and depth of your answers interesting as well. I don't mind talking with you. It's nice, to have foods for my thoughts, and give some to someone else who seems to enjoy it.

    Also I typed all of that in quite of a hurry, I didn't proofread/check grammar thoroughly so it's most likely broken in some places.. oops.