Just picking up on something from another thread. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts and experiences regarding consent. I don't think I have ever asked if I can kiss someone (or been asked if they can kiss me), it has happened quite naturally and been implied. I think with more than kissing though there has been some kind of conversation and there have been plenty of times I have said no, even within a relationship. Obviously consent is something that has to be given over and over again, and can be taken away at any moment, even during sex. I remember a girl I slept with just getting into my bed and then asking if I was sure (there had been a lot of flirting before hand!) and I said yes, haha :***:
I'm really glad that this idea of consent is spreading in the world. But, from high school to the present, no male that I've dated actually followed consent in this way. I think that sometimes guys understand that consent is something they should get for intercourse, cuz most guys don't want to be rapists, but the ones I dated have not listened to my no regarding other forms of touching in the moments where I wasn't cool with it. I would rather err on the side of too much consent, at every stage. But, you can get that with questions like, "Do you like this? What do you want me to do?" so it's not so much of a mood killer as repeatedly asking are you sure, are you sure.
I've never been asked if someone could kiss me, though I've been asked "is this okay?" and "are you okay?" Which I find really important on an ongoing basis. I would definitely ask someone if it was okay if I kissed them, if it was a first kiss, especially. Sometimes body language isn't enough, and I don't think it is a mood killer AT ALL to be asked.
Sorry that happened to you Katchoo. I think some guys definetly feel some sense of entitlement. I think you should never have to say no more than once. When I think back, I feel like some guys have definetly taken advantage of me when I was drunk, and I think, with one guy in particular I felt like it was my fault for getting so drunk. Of course it was his fault though for being an ass hole. I feel a bit the same way Katchoo - I would err on the side of too much consent at every stage, and especially with another woman, for some reason.
Kissing- that has tended to happen naturally after getting to know each other. Anything else, I always check in, possibly a little too frequently, but still. I have to know the person is on the same page and is into it throughout.
I stopped seeing a guy who I actually kind of liked because both times we had sex at the end of the night (our first and third dates, respectively) he wouldn't take no for an answer regarding me bottoming. It became really uncomfortable having to say no multiple times and just turned me off to him. He was hot, but being respected is a lot hotter.
I am just relearning the art of consent. Dirtyshirt this is very timely for me. I am finding it is different between two guys than I remember with women. But, I think respect is at the base of it. And, I don't think it kills the mood at all. Especially a game of "is this OK?"
I agree with Nickw about there being a difference between men and women. In my experience, at least, with women, I am usually the initiator of kissing, etc and I always seek consent verbally (like the 'is this ok?' game) or through body language (especially the eyes). With guys, it often seems like the very fact you are with them at the moment gives them pre-agreed consent for a laundry list like kissing, touching, etc. It often ticks me off that if I lean in a bit closer to look into his eyes (for consent) to kiss (for example), the next thing I know is his lips are already pressing on mine.
Consent is a super hot button issue right now, and rightfully so as we continue to see just how lenient a sentence rapists continue to get. We've been having to deconstruct all of the socially constructed ideas of what femininity and masculinity mean in society, and a huge part of it is the overt sexualizing of women - while pushing a dominance agenda on men. The patriarchy has truly :***: itself. I've never been asked to be kissed. I've either just been kissed, or as I remember my first, was told to kiss (lol, it was actually kind of hot, but he totally sucked). It's always been some kind of assumption, like I wanted to, even though I'm not sure I would have said yes if I was asked by some of the people I did wind up kissing. There's a particular time that will always stand out to me when my ex, on one of the first few times we hung out, was in my bed making out with me and got a little handsy, but then he took it way too far. I could even say he sexually assaulted me, because I made it pretty clear that I didn't want A to happen just because we were doing B, and he did it anyway quickly enough so it was hard to say no before it happened. It's something that always stood out in our relationship, and it bothered me to the end/was definitely something that pushed me to break up with him - even if it was a long time after. I could say that it was my fault, because I was fine with him being in my bed, and things were heating up between us. But it's not my fault, he totally disrespected my boundaires. It's like the drunk girl who wakes up in someone's bed only to discover they've had some kind of sex. That's not consent. Saying you didn't want to when it happens anyway, if it's forced, is not consent. Even if you're making out with the person and things are getting hot and heavy. Even if you're both drunk. If you weren't totally present for the sex but it somehow happened anyway, that's still not consent. I think asking and listening and understanding body language are super important. Some people don't understand boundaries, or don't think they apply, but they always do. I agree with Katchoo when she says asking "is this okay? Do you like this?" questions are good to ask instead of "Are you okay with doing this? Are you sure you want to do this?" Every step of the way. I also don't think that applies throughout the entire relationship, but it's crucial to be extra cautious in the beginning of anything with someone. I think if someone asked if they could kiss me, it would be way hotter than them just kissing me because it "looked" like I wanted to. If you're both happy, lucid, and your faces are an inch away because you're both about to kiss each other, that's a different story. It's a movie scene, but if that happens in real life to anyone, then I imagine that's some kind of consent. I rambled.
To put it simply, it's the only way I roll and can't understand actions otherwise. Hopefully when I finally find someone they'll agree with me for once. And in the case of sex, I'll just say the fact that some people fetishize rape disgusts me... to put it nicely. Society's tendency to view women as objects rather than people doesn't exactly help either.
Kira, in fact, real Rape isn't sex. Rape is Violence. Like, you, I can't understand fetishizing even role-play rape, but people are people.
I think kissing is more in a moment and being asked if I can be kissed has happened, and to me it kind of kills the mood because I think it's the nonverbals that lead to a kiss. However, beyond that I'm all for the "Is this okay?" thing. I actually find it sweet and respectful.