Are you religious?

Yes, but my religious views are more liberal than they were in the closet. I had a major crisis of faith for a while. I had to let go of fundamentalism and embrace a more figurative view of scripture.

 

No, though I've tried. I cannot believe. I can't put my fate to something so... ethereal. I've tried Atheism, but all the Atheists around here are... they think because they have no religion they are superior, and I don't want to be associated with that. I just want people to be happy, and most of the time religion helps them, but it doesn't help me, so it bothers me when people tell me to trust in God.

 

Religion never truly clicked with me. I used to try and be the all-Christian boy or whatever, but it was obvious I never could be, no matter how hard I tried. So I ended up focusing on treating the people around me with peace. Although I still play drums at church (Service is tomorrow, possibly my last one there because my father may be kicked out, he may not be, still unsure), I've always felt vulnerable in a Catholic cathedral. Maybe it's because they're always so huge and intimidating, but I've always come to think of it as a symbol of "YOU BAD. YOU GAY. YOU GO TO HELL."

Nevertheless, I try and keep religion out of my discussions as much as possible, especially since I'm an agnostic athiest.

 

i wouldn't concider myself extremely religous but yes I kinda am

 

I'm not really religious myself, But I don't mind if people are, I enjoy watching people like Gene Robinson and I've got to meet some pro-LGBTQ pastors/Church leaders at pride events, It's just the far right wing anti-LGBT religious people i have a problem with.

 

I don't know what the hell I am these days

some freaky combination of Buddhist spirituality and Pagan beliefs. I am a follower of Isis but practice simplicity and meditation. Yes I am aware that Buddhism (save for maybe Pure Land) often makes mention of having no belief in a higher being but then if I made it my practice to care what others thought about who I am then I would probably be back in high school with severe anxiety and social issues

Foxface

 

Had an interesting conversation yesterday:
Girl: You're an atheist aren't you?
Me: Yeah
Girl: How come?
Me: God doesn't exist. You're a muslim aren't you?
Girl: Yes
Me: Why?
Girl: My parents.

I found this conversation interesting, since that it really and truly the only justification she has for her beliefs. It would never come close to being a justification for one of mine.

 

I have a hard time with both sides of the so-called religious coin.

There is attitude and cockiness and ego on both sides of what is essentially unprovable either way

I'm sorry but anyone who says God exists because the book said so is not speaking from logic

At the same time, anyone who tells me a deity doesn't exist because there is no proof is just as illogical

I am a scientist by nature. Therapist, love to research and (if all goes well) a soon to be epidemiologist. I believe in the big bang. I believe int he big crunch. I believe in evolution

but honestly, and I mean this with all respect to atheists

What came before the big bang? Where did the material come from for the creation of the multiverse? A bigger domain than the multiverse? Where did that material come from?

My problem is that over and over you can follow the most microscopic pieces of life or the largest macroscopic view of the multiverse...but what came before that? Where did it all come from?

On the same side, those who are belivers. You can honestly tell me that with the massive pile of proof that evolution doesn't exist? And the one that irritates me to no end...that the bible tells us God is real. Why because God inspired the book. How do we know that? The bible tells us...ad nauseam

I'm sorry but IMO each position is sompletely unprovable 100%

That is why I can't instantly jump on the atheist train of thought 100% but yes I respect all and believe it's their right not to belive or to believe

I just wish people could leave thers be...and that goes for both sides frankly

Oh well...it goes on

Foxface

 

I agree that saying a deity doesn't exist because there is no proof is logically questionable. Only in the presence of proof to the contrary would it be valid. And we don't have that. We can say that certain traits of a deity violate the laws of physics or logic, and thus any existing deity can't be like that. What we can say is that the burden of proof lies on the ones making the claims of existence; the theist. There are a great many things I don't believe in because no evidence exists to support it, like unicorns or a teapot in space.

(ps. I think the evidence suggests that the expansion of the universe is speeding up, so a big crunch seems unlikely).

The question of what came before the big bang is one I've thought of before. Its true to say that time (and space) are a quality of our universe, so I'm not sure its possible to say 'before'. But the question stands, and I can't answer it. What I can say is how does the presence of a deity change it? Who created the deity? Both problems are ones of infinite regress. In fact, the existence of a deity would pose more of a problem, since for the deity to have consciousness, it would require some kind of organisation as well as matter/energy.

 

I'm sorry I have to say it...I love debate and discourse with you...you are reasonable, calm and clear

so let's keep it moving

I've bolded the one part I have some issue with.

It is a huge problem no doubt but isn't it equally troubling that the universe existed forever with no design and real start or finish?

Admittedly some days this crap keeps me up at night and not actually in a bad way. I love deep thought and though I am no registered genius, working out the mind is the best exercise ever. I can tell you do these workouts as well. Kudos

It's so repetitive of me but the idea that all of this came from nothing. It's a funny battle inside my own mind between the scientist and the believer. The idea of infinite regress is valid too and I suppose that is why I guess somedays I almost consider myself agnostic in a way.

May I ask kindly what you think about people who say they have experiences of a spiritual or religious nature? Not saying I have neccesarily and you won't offend me, but just curious

thanks!

look forward to your response

Foxface

 

It is, and I spend a completely unreasonable amount of time thinking about it. However, it can't be used as an argument in favour of either theism or atheism, because they both share the problem. According to theism, the deity came out of nothing, then created all of this. (Well, some theism, anyway. It seems to me that some of the polytheistic religions have the gods coming after the world).

Needless to say, I don't believe such experiences are an actual connection with a deity. As for what I believe they are, I'm not too sure. I've heard that specific parts of the brain are activated during spiritual experiences, though you may know more about that than I do. So I'm assuming these experiences are biological, perhaps sometimes triggered by prayer or meditation. And people embellish them and attribute them to a particular deity or supernatural experience. I've heard of atheists who have had a spiritual experience from meditation. So, what I think of people who have spiritual/religious experiences is that they're just people. We all have imaginations, and I don't think its too much of a stretch to imagine aspects of a spiritual experience. What I intensely dislike, though, is when people try to use religious experiences as evidence for the existence of a deity.

 

I know a real story says :
( One day there was a flight and the passengers were atheists and while the plane was flying a small problem made it fall down for a few seconds , In these seconds those people thought they are going to die and all of them shouted " Oh GOD help us " ) .

I think the story doesn't need to be explained :icon_wink .

 

Hey Foxface and Hexagon I have a question for both of u :
If said I don't have a laptop and today I saw a some pieces of metal and plastic gather together and they made a laptop which I am talking from It now , So would u believe me ?
answer by yes or no plz and thanks

 

I strongly believe in Wicca. The religion has great values and virtues and is a flexible belief system (meaning I'm not forced to believe in a deity). Most wiccans are also very accepting of all sexualities which is a plus too.

 

Are you proposing that story proves the existence of a deity? If you are, then its ridiculous. The word 'god' used in that situation has nothing to do with a deity, it has simply entered into secular language as a way to express certain emotions. Like saying 'Saturday' doesn't mean I believe in the roman god saturn.

No, not without some good evidence. Its impossible to make a laptop from a bit of plastic and metal without other machinery, and pretty damn unlikely you'd know how to do it anyway, since that kind of skill is rare. Why exactly are you asking this?

 

No, not in the slightest.

I can't believe I missed this thread before. Interesting to read everyone's replies.

 

Is it wrong that I read that with an Asian accent? I could just picture Kim Jong-Un yelling at someone saying “YOU GAY! YOU GO TO GOOLAG!” Or even better, an Asian cardinal. )
But seriously though, why do you think Cathedrals are angry Asians yelling at you?
I don’t think they’re intimidating. They’re just so vast, sometimes, you can get a bit shocked.
But I like to think it’s symbolic of the vastness of God.

 

My story proves that atheists when they are in danger they pray to god because they just act that there is no god , u think that is ridiculous hahaha ya think what ever u want .
about my question I wanted to get to this :
So u think It's impossible that a laptop made its self and u believe that nobody create this universe and nature was made by it self , now that is ridiculous !!! :icon_wink

 

What's ridiculous is insisting that your idea beats all others simply because the other theories aren't 100% proven, while yours is 0% proven. Crying out "God" doesn't make someone religious, as Hexagon has said; words and phrases have a lot of religious origins and connotations, but don't make someone religious; saying the days of the week in Portuguese doesn't make you a Catholic.

A laptop is something we know to be manufactured by humans. The universe is something which we have no known precedent of its existence or adequate understanding of. We haven't seen it being created, and all we can do is rely on physics and chemistry and biology to give us the best understanding possible. Deism requires listening to someone educated in a non-critical and biased manner. Deism and atheism are both unproven, but one makes a positive claim, and the other makes a claim that there needs to be proof to make the statement.

Russell's teapot isn't adequate proof to say that there is a god or gods.