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25 years of questioning

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by dch, May 8, 2021.

  1. dch

    dch
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    Hello, everyone! I’m new here, and I’m hopeful that I will be able to begin to figure out what I've questioned and been confused about for several years. Throughout my adult life, I’ve pursued relationships exclusively with women. I was married for 12 years and then was in an on-again/off-again relationship for about 8 years. However, since around age 20, I’ve occasionally fantasized about sex with men. These fantasies have become more and more frequent over the years. I grew up in a small, conservative town that was not at all welcoming to the LGBTQ community, and while my circle of friends and immediate family were a bit more open-minded, being gay was still something to be ridiculed. If I ever had any thoughts of experimenting, they were quickly pushed aside.

    I never really questioned my attraction towards women when I was younger, and I simply dismissed my fantasies about men as just a passing phase. However, when I moved in with the woman who would later become my wife, I lost interest in having sex with her even though we had only been dating a few months by that point. The fantasies of men persisted, although they were sort of in the background.

    Several years later, we moved to a larger city and divorced amicably shortly after. I dated several women and had little trouble with my sexual urges towards them at the time. However, by that point, the fantasies of men had grown quite a bit more frequent. I decided to make an attempt to explore this by creating a profile on a couple of gay dating apps, but I kept deleting my account after a few days only to try again a few weeks later. For some reason, I was scared to go through with meeting a guy. Also, I found most of my interactions with the guys on there off-putting. Nearly all of them were looking for an immediate hook-up, but being rather shy about the whole thing, I was really just hoping to find someone to hang out with and maybe eventually have sex with once I’d gotten to know them a bit.

    I did eventually meet one guy on there, and while I didn’t find him particularly attractive physically, I appreciated that he was patient with me. Eventually we did have sex, but I panicked afterwards for some reason and didn’t keep in touch with him. However, we reconnected a couple years later and had another encounter and then again on two occasions a couple of years ago. I have since lost touch with him again. I fear he grew tired of my flakiness. Anyway, for some reason, I could not bring myself to kiss him during any of the times we were together. I’m not really sure why. I thought maybe that meant I’m not really attracted to men, even though I thoroughly enjoyed the experiences, especially the last two times. I have made several brief attempts to meet other guys on dating apps, but I tend to chicken out for multiple reasons.

    Since then, I’ve tried to date women, but I find that I have a more difficult time having sex with them. I’m wondering if it’s because I’m not attracted to those particular women or if women in general just don’t interest me. I can’t remember the last time I’ve fantasized about a woman. It’s been several years. But when I’m in public, women tend to catch my eye far more than men do. In fact, it’s sort of rare for me to notice an attractive man. The interesting thing is that when I do notice a guy, I tend to feel arousal, whereas with women, I tend to feel perhaps a slight desire to spend time with them but not necessarily to have any sort of sexual experience. Another thing I’ve noticed is that all of my friendships in recent years are with women. I haven’t really had any male friends since moving to this area ten years ago. I’m not really sure why that is. I always seem to find myself in school or workplace situations where most of my classmates or co-workers are women.

    A few months ago, I started a relationship with a woman, but once again, I’m finding myself quickly losing interest in her. Again, I’m not sure if it’s simply because I’m not attracted to her or if it’s something else. At this point, I have to concede that at the very least, I’m probably not straight. At one time, I thought that my same-sex fantasies were just a passing fancy and driven by the fact that such things are/were considered taboo, at least in my hometown growing up. But I feel like after 25 years, I can no longer believe this is the case. So now I’m wondering if I’m bi or if I’m actually gay and have repressed my true desires out of fear.
     
  2. PatrickUK

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    The fact that you are constantly fantasising about men is telling and while you may not be 100% gay, there seems to be a predominant desire for men now. I would suggest you pay closer attention to these feelings (which have always been there to some extent).

    I think the negativity you experienced growing up has permeated deep within you and continues to feed the reticence you feel about meeting, dating and kissing other men. Shame (that's what it most likely is) is a toxic feeling that gets buried inside us and cannot be easily shaken. The words and looks of disapproval really do a number on us and we have to put a lot of effort into pushing back and living authentically.

    When you go out and notice women rather than men, that's shame at work. It's easier and safer to acknowledge an attractive woman, even though there is an emptiness of intimacy. On the rare occasions when shame doesn't rear its ugly head and you notice an attractive man the response is one of arousal and desire.

    I don't think you should attempt to date anymore women, because the connection is just not there. Yes, you can still recognise attractiveness in the opposite sex (so can I) but there is nothing leading you beyond the parameters of friendship. Any attempt at intimacy will be forced, rather than free and spontaneous and that's not good for either of you. It's not fair on either of you.

    It really is a matter for you and you alone to decide which label suits you best. I would suggest you look more closely at the idea that you are gay and try to embrace it. Will not be easy and you might need a fair bit of help and support, but I think it more closely aligns to where you are. I think it's residual shame that will keep you hanging onto the idea that you are bisexual.

    What do you think to all of this?
     
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  3. dch

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    I think you make a lot of valid points. It’s entirely probable that I’ve allowed shame to cause me to repress my true inclinations. I would be mortified if anyone I knew found out about these fantasies or the few same-sex encounters I’ve experienced. Over the last few years, I’ve been able to admit to myself that I’m at least a little bi, but I believed I preferred women. If given two appealing options, obviously I would choose the one that would spare me embarrassment and from feeling judged negatively.

    I’m noticing a bit of a pattern in my life over the last few years. Six years ago, I ended a toxic relationship with a woman that lasted about four years. After that, I seemed to go through this cycle of trying to date other women with unsatisfying results, taking tentative steps toward exploring my same-sex attraction only to quickly abandon them, and then trying to reconcile with the ex-girlfriend.

    When I tried to date women, I found they fell into one of two categories. Either I found them physically attractive but not very interesting, or I did enjoy our interactions but did not find them very attractive. A few times I tried being in relationships with women in the latter group. For the first few weeks, I would feel very drawn to these women, but I always suddenly lost interest at around the six week mark, and I would eventually end the relationship. I assumed it was because I was lacking confidence and only trying to date women I knew wouldn’t reject me. Also, people have told me I had valid reasons for ending these relationships that went beyond me simply losing interest.

    There were also a handful to times when my ex-girlfriend and I had brief “relapses.” She was the one woman over the last several years I did not lose interest in. It was a very unhappy and unhealthy relationship though. But my ongoing attraction towards her seemed to offer proof to myself that I’m bi and not gay. However, the guy I had my few encounters with suggested that the only reason I kept letting her back into my life was because it provided a distraction from facing the truth about myself.

    Then there were brief phases when I would try to meet guys on dating apps. For some reason, I couldn’t bring myself to send anyone the first message. I had to wait for them to message me. In nearly every case, it was from someone I didn’t find attractive, or it was someone who almost immediately asked for sex. I would get scared and delete my profile. Then I would reject the whole notion I was anything other than straight. After all, I noticed attractive women in public all the time but rarely noticed men.

    Also, I’ve always felt more comfortable and felt a stronger emotional connection to women. As I said in my first post, nearly all of my friends over the last ten years have been women. I’m not really sure why I haven’t had guy friends. I used to tell myself it’s because I’m not into the stereotypical guy things like sports, but I wonder if something about them intimidates me, like I fear them rejecting me as a person. I tend to feel more anxious when talking to the few guys I work with. I have a difficult time picturing myself in a romantic relationship with a guy, but I guess it’s possible that the shame is keeping me from letting that scenario float around in my mind.

    As I said, I’m currently in another one of those relationships with a woman that I’m losing interest in. We’ve actually known each other for a long time, so I had high hopes this one would be different. The big problem right now is that we’re currently in the process of moving into a house we’ve rented, and I’ve hit that point once again where I’m losing interest. I feel compelled to try to make an effort to make it work, but I know I’m probably fooling myself. I’m not sure what my next steps should be.
     
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  4. Braj

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    hi dch! I have very similar experiences. At early adolescence, I found myself being attracted to both boys and girls however I can't say I had sexual feelings to any of them. I felt like talking to girls and spending time with them. But I didn't spent so much time with them because my parents didn't approve of. As I grew a little older, I started feeling some sexual attraction too for both boys and girls. At that time I didn't realize that my feelings towards boys was a sexual attraction because such a thing was unheard of in the society so I ignored those.

    A few years later, I found myself more sexually aroused by good-looking men than women, but what you said above applies ditto to me. In-addition, I felt very nervous to talk to anyone I was attracted to (more with women because of my cultural upbringing). So, I thought maybe as I am very anxious, I am not feeling that sexual arousal. This way I kept myself convincing and even now I do. The women with whom I eventually started talking, I became good friends with them but didn't have any sexual urges. Even with men, I had sexual desires only from afar, and these feelings used to die out as I became acquainted with them. I don't know exactly why but maybe a fear.

    I can relate to this because I feel the same way. Feel more connected to women than men and I too think the reason as me not being a stereotypical guy. I feel comfortable with women and strong emotional connection that I can spend a whole life with them. Whereas with men, though I have sexual desires, I can't think of being with one for the whole life.

    My experiences on the gay dating apps are almost identical to yours. Also, based on the observations that there were not many guys on the dating apps whom I find interesting and I do notice attractive women in public more frequently than men and I have a strong emotional connection with women, I use to tell myself that this sexual attraction towards men is just a desire for forbidden fruit and my true destiny is with women and I might be demi-sexual with women but I have not given my relations that long time. But, the sexual attraction to men being very strong I get confused all the time.

    A very similar experience for me too. And while dating women, I could easily form an emotional connection but I didn't feel any sexual desires, so I used to drop out because I didn't want anyone to get hurt. So, eventually I had not been in any relationship.

    I am very scared to go into any relationship with either man or woman. But reading this thread, I feel that I can't keep my feelings shut. I must explore them. Thanks.
     
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  5. I'm gay

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    I agree with @PatrickUK completely. But the paragraph I quoted above stood out to me, though. I found it interesting that the lesson you drew from your lack to desire to kiss him was that it meant you were not really attracted to men, when in fact, you had already said that you didn't find him particularly attractive physically. I wonder if you would have a desire to kiss a guy who you did find particularly attractive, and what that might change in your feelings here. Just a thought.
     
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  6. dch

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    Thanks for the input, everyone. It’s really given me a lot to ponder the last few days. I guess I’m not quite fully convinced I’m not bisexual rather than gay, but I’m opening up to that possibility that I am indeed gay. Honestly, it was only in the last few years I’ve been able to admit (if only to myself) that I’m at least bi after years of denying obvious signs I’m not straight. I still figured I could just keep my fantasies about men a secret and that eventually I would find the right woman.

    I believed that until very recently after getting into yet another relationship with a woman that feels empty and forced. Over the last couple of years but especially over the last few weeks, I’ve been asking myself why do I quickly lose interest in nearly all of the women I try to date? For the last few years, I had been telling myself it was because I only tend to date women I’m not really all that interested in in the first place due to a lack of self-confidence. But do I just tell myself that out of denial? Is the truth really that there really are no women I would be interested in and further attempts to date them would all end the same way no matter who it is? I’m just confused because I don’t recall having difficulty maintaining interest in women when I was younger.

    Are these fairly common thoughts to have when coming to terms with one’s own sexuality? Am I just deluding myself into thinking I’m bi? Honestly, the thought of coming out seems utterly terrifying, if I am indeed gay. But oddly, on some level I sort of want it to be true, maybe just because it would explain a lot of the difficulties I’ve had.
     
  7. Shadowsettler

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    I had the issue of "not wanting to be gay" in my youth, and it went on for over a decade but it was due to severe homophobic abuse and traumas...
    And I completely understand being disgusted/offput by "hookups". Commitment is the only way to my heart [and ultimately my pants]... they have to be the right fit for me, otherwise we will remain friends... but as far as being bisexual or gay, it certainly sounds like you are bisexual but homoromantic... like, you prefer men over women, but you still like boobies, haha! and that's fine...

    I'll tell ya, the gay struggle is real my friend. It's not easy finding a decent guy, but that also has a lot to do with location... location, location, location... LGBT tend to pilgrimage towards the inner cities and college towns. I'm a rural guy. I grew up in Hickville, USA and it's always been hard. I've only had 2 of my boyfriends there in the past 20 years, because that's literally all there is, heh.

    If you're interested in this aspect of your sexuality I guess maybe you should try to find the "watering hole" or something of the sorts... just keep your eyes out for the fakes. You sound like you're already very observant and aware of people's personality, so I don't think you'll have any trouble discerning who's a keeper and who is not..
     
    #7 Shadowsettler, May 11, 2021
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  8. PatrickUK

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    Just keep in mind that our sexuality isn't about hitting a 100% target, where anything less is a sign of failure. We can't all be gold-star gays, with hormones that rage for the same sex day and night.
     
  9. dch

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    It’s been nearly a week since I posted. I’ve been busy with various things going on in my life since then, but I’ve had a little time here and there to read about other people’s experiences on here and to contemplate everyone’s input following my initial posts.

    The other day I had a moment where I thought to myself, “Who am I kidding? I’m gay.” It felt fairly obvious as I was typing the words of my initial post. I’d never really allowed myself to “verbalize” those thoughts before, at least not to that extent. It was both scary and liberating to get those words out. I see a lot of other people who realize they’re gay later in life experience a lot of the same internal conflicts I have.

    I asked myself what I would do if I somehow ended up living somewhere far away from all the people I’ve ever known, and without even needing a moment to think about it, I realized just how much my shame and fear has kept me from accepting myself. I suppose I should have known I was gay years ago when I kept taking those online sexual orientation tests and feeling disappointed if they concluded I was anything other than gay.

    So my next dilemma is what to do now. I don’t feel particularly comfortable sharing this information with everyone just yet. The fear and shame aren’t going to go quietly and quickly, I suppose. I feel like I should try to get know other gay people in the area (through other means besides dating/hookup apps) and see where that leads. I’m not sure how to go about doing that though.
     
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  10. QuietPeace

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    Being around other LGBT+ people can help with the fear and it also takes time.

    As far as shame here is a good TED talk by Brené Brown
    https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame
     
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  11. PatrickUK

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    I don't know precisely where you live in the United States, or how close you are to any big cities, but you could begin by looking for LGBTQ interest/hobby groups on meetup or community organisations for LGBTQ people near to where you live that would offer you some connections that are not necessarily sexual. This might be a good start.

    Do bear in mind that LGBTQ people living outside of big towns and cities are accustomed to travelling in order to meet friends and potential dates.
     
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  12. I'm gay

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    Yes! This right here is exactly how we emerge from our denial and reach toward acceptance. Actually saying "I'm gay" out loud to yourself, and even better, to yourself in front of a mirror, is an incredibly powerful moment for many people. Verbalizing it makes it more real, and it's the moment you can't take back - a point of no return, and so you must move forward. Good for you for reaching this point. Might I suggest, when you are ready, to change your Orientation status on your profile to "Gay"? Try it out and see how it feels.

    You've gotten good advice on meeting other LGBTQ folks, and I agree it will likely help you immensely to be around an accepting crowd.
     
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  13. out2019

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    @dch
    I find @PatrickUK 's points align with what I experienced - after 30 + years of repression and denial:

    This was true for me, I never realized the power of shame before - and once I was able to realize shame as an external thought....realizing my sexuality became much easier.

    Yep. For YEARS I also used this for denial. You see, I look at pretty women, I am not gay.
    Scary as it was, when I started to accept myself, my interest in looking at women waned, and before acceptance, my fantasies were 90% men - way more intense -and maybe 10-20% women - less intense - eventually the fantasizing went to 100% intense about men.

    It took me a long, long long time to realize how this powerful feeling (shame) kept me from accepting myself.
    Ask yourself this - if everyone you knew disappeared, or you started in a new city that was super gay friendly, and you saw a super cute guy who seemed to be into you, what would you do?
     
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  14. out2019

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    I remember that exactly feeling, phrase popping into my head after my first post at EC :slight_smile:

    I second this- facing the mirror, I said it, I wasn't prepared for the rush of warm emotion... it was one of the most intense experiences of my life.
     
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  15. out2019

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    I forgot to mention, very soon, if your experience is anything like me and lot of posters here, it's going to from 'who am i kidding' to a wonderful feeling of warmth and joy accepting that you're gay...


    Coming out is overwhelming if we think about doing it all at once, or the most scary people (usually family) . You don't have to do it all at once, but as you accept yourself you might start to feel that you want to come out...

    I am not fully out, and I am still scared, but after here, I called an anon gay help line (not a crisis one) I said I was gay, and it felt so liberating and normal....I realized I have no shame or guilt or even fear with other gay men. So I think this is a good idea - build a community first that you feel comfortable in.
     
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  16. Contented

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    For me as I started to come to terms with being gay I experienced that same shame. However when I was honest with myself I knew that if I was in a gay friendly area and away from the people I knew I would most definitely have identified as 100% gay. That made me realize the issue was me and not other people’s opinion of my sexuality. With the help of a skilled LGBTQ counselor I was able to embrace being gay and coming out right where I was. It was a uniquely liberating experience.
     
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  17. Melanie10229

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    How are you feeling today? For me it sounds like you are bi But just have a preference for guys.
     
  18. dch

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    Wow! It’s been two years since I posted all of that. It’s interesting to see where I was at in regard to accepting my sexuality. Certainly, my attitude has shifted since then. I’m still questioning things, but you’re probably correct that I’m most likely bi with a very strong preference for men. It’s been years since I’ve found myself fantasizing about a woman though.

    How am I feeling today? To put it simply, not great at the moment, but things will improve eventually.
     
  19. Melanie10229

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    i am glad you have found out more! I am questioning myself at the moment. And struggling hard to be honest because I am in a relationship with a man I really love.
     
  20. dch

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    I read some of your posts on other threads, and I see that you've spoken about having OCD. I am certainly no expert on that topic, so I can only make an uneducated guess how much of a role that plays in questioning your sexuality. Based on what you've posted, I don't see any reason to believe that you are a lesbian. Maybe you're bi. Maybe you're straight. Try not to compare your experience to others on here. Just because someone with a similar sounding experience identifies as gay or lesbian, your experience and your interpretation of it is unique to you and not incorrect. If you feel in your heart that you are bi, then go with that. If, later on down the road, you feel that label no longer suits you, then you get to decide for yourself how you identify.