I will try to make this short. I am married over 30 years with children . My youngest is 20. I came out to my wife around 10 years ago. We tried an open marriage for a while but it did not work out. We have been back to a traditional marriage . It is getting more and more difficult to suppress my true self lately. since . We have been sexually active throughout, although I do fantasize about men exclusively. I used to stop by a gay bar from time to time through the years ,just to feel connected. Lately I have been stopping by more often at least once a week sometimes more as time provides. I have also recently discovered EC and have posted here. I feel more and more a need to move forward with my sexuality. I do however love my wife dearly. I love the life we have built together. I have always been someone who always does the right thing. So I am in a difficult place. Recently during sex with my wife I was reluctant to perform oral. This really set her off she got very angry and threatened to Out me to my family and divorce me. She was very hurt . I could not accept the pain I caused her. Even though I did not deny my true sexuality I tried to make excuses and say anything I could to alleviate her . In hind sight I should have simply calmed her and had a more constructive discussion. I believe that I was impelled to back away as much from my fear of coming out as my guilt of hurting her. So as much as I tell myself I want to come out apparently I am not ready. 56 years old! So Fucking stupid. I decided to take a step back but a few days later an opportunity to stop by a gay bar came up so I stopped in for a quick drink . I used to be fearful of running into someone who new me there Lately however, I have been more and more hopeful of running into someone who knows me. Being out to one more person is a step forward. So of course now I run into a gay man my wife works with. In fact he is her closest work friend. We pretended not to see each other. At first I was mortified but as I have thought about it I am glad that he saw me .I am out to someone new. Amazing that been found out by someone is a big fear and afterwards an even bigger inspiration. I don't believe he will say anything to her. So here I sit , both discouraged and motivated at the same time.
And how are you defining what the right thing is? Are you basing what’s “right” on what you need or on what others expect of you?
Hey I am a married bisexual and in an "openish" marriage. So, I have some understanding of the difficulties in those relationships. What wasn't working for you and your wife when you tried that?
At the time my wife did not completely believe or understand what it meant ( me being Gay) she read a journal I was keeping (stupid) about what I felt . The realization of how this will likely end hit her hard . Seeing her hurt caused me to back off from the open marriage .
Roydavid It sounds like maybe you know what the end result is going to be. Do you feel you will divorce? Nick
Cannot know for sure what the outcome is . Maybe I never truly come out . Just flirt with the idea of it the rest of our lives. Maybe I reach a point were I feel have to come out. Maybe I happen to meet a man and my desire to be with him gives me the courage to come out. Who knows . I'm just at a point of frustration. At this moment I just wish I had more time to explore ,expand, enhance my homosexuality. Just wish I could do it without hurting someone I love.
This is the crux I suppose. I am bisexual. Even though my same sex desires can be just as strong as any gay mans. I do not need to have the deep emotional bond with a man to feel like I am complete. It sounds like you do? When you see yourself in your golden years. Sitting on the front porch as the sun sets. Do you see a man next to you or do you see your wife? What do you want?
And now she is equally culpable with your situation. She knows your gay, but wants to live as if nothing is different. Your both living a lie now. What’s so right about that?
I'm thinking this is a bit strong to use the term "culpable". I married my wife with some idea that I had same sex desires. But, I didn't understand what that meant. It felt right to be married, I loved my wife and the same sex desires were pretty much background noise. It didn't seem to affect my life or my marriage. None of us go into marriages who are gay or bi with the idea we are lying. We are in love with our wives. The realization that we need to be who we are finally does come to the surface. But, that doesn't make us culpable in anything. Our wives love us too and want to be with us. What is wrong with that? The issue is how we move forward and allow both ourselves and our wives the relationships each deserve and desire. If that can be done in a MOM as I am doing then fine. Honesty, communication and compassion is all that we can offer each other. This might mean that marriage isn't the best option. But, we each, as couples need to figure that out.
I don't know if you have ever been married or if you have children. There is a protective instinct to protect your family unit. it's primal . You do what's best for the family. Is it "right" for us as individuals? probably not but its hard to put the family aside for the sake of what I want for myself. I understand that my children are older now which is most likely why these feelings are harder to ignore now. I still do love my wife dearly and even though what I feel is right, may not be in the long run .
Yup, I am speaking from direct experience. I think your hiding behind what you want to believe is right rather than what is actually right for everyone. How is it right for everyone to live behind an emotional walls not allowing themselves to be true to whom they are? This includes your wife and children. What type of example are you setting for your kids when your not being true to yourself? Do you think they will learn to be true to themselves? Will there be short term pain? Of course. Long term however, maybe everyone can be themselves. And what can be more right than being authentic?
@Roydavid you have a tough situation for sure. And you're in the right place here. I hope that the discussions here would set you up for what it feels right for you. I'll speak from my own experience, although different than yours. I'm 52, my kids are both grown ups, and I'm on my way for divorce, soon I hope. My divorce stemmed from years of ill-treatment and verbal abusive wife. The family commitment that you pointed out is what kept me in an unhappy 25 years of marriage. I'm not out to any of my family. The process is hurtful, it is going to hurt someone somehow. It is either you, if your wife doesn't accept how you feel engaging in sex with her, and then you'll have to live with it, abiding by her rules and dismissing your own psychological health, or your wife, by you recognizing your own needs and dismissing hers. It is going to be totally your call, we can give you our own perspective on how you should or should not live, but the final decision is yours. Just make sure that your decision is one that you can live with afterwards. Personally, I've imagined that my wife was lovable and was treating me fairly and how I could have continued with her, oppressing my desires, I was always looking for the emotional connection more than sex anyways. I'm not sure if I would have been able to do it or not though. Today, my divorce decision was strongly affected by thinking whether I will be able to continue with her nonsense or not, and not necessarily my homosexual urges. I have to be clear and truthful to you and to myself that this decision was impacted by several months of chatting with a guy that I liked a lot. Knowing him gave me the strength to take this life-changing decision, it empowered me, and you pointed out yourself that this scenario could change your mind in the future, and believe me, it really could. And although I was struggling a lot even before I knew him. I did not engage in any sexual activity beyond my marriage, and this guy and I are only friends so far. But my divorce decision is final. I hope that you find a peaceful way to get over this mess of feelings and responsibilities. And, I think that, if your wife really loves you, you could openly discuss how you really feel, and make sure that she knows that you still love her, but cannot continue like this for long. She has to be aware of that. Besides, if coming out is not a problem for you, do it yourself, don't wait for her or anyone else to do it for you, the sooner the better. Good luck
In reading your post, I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for. It seems that you have conflicting priorities that have basically paralyzed your growth. I've been there myself, so I know that it's difficult to know what the right thing to do is. I saw a great business quote from Richard Branson the other day - "If someone offers you an amazing opportunity and you're not sure you can do it, say yes - then learn how to do it later" In many ways this mirrors the coming out process, for me at least. The little voice inside you tells you that you are a gay, and you might be somewhat scared that you can't handle it. Go for it anyway and trust that you'll develop the skills and attitudes along the way. I'm a much different and better person today than I was when I started my journey. I experienced a lot of personal growth by coming out, being authentic, and discarding a lot of the mental and emotional garbage that I had collected. Life has given you an amazing opportunity to discover yourself!
As husbands and fathers, of course it becomes our natural instinct to protect our families. I get it. I'm a father of two kids. No one here can tell you what's right for your journey. All we can really do is share our experiences and what we've learned from our own journeys, and hopefully you may learn from our paths. After reading your post, I would ask you to consider the following ideas: 1. Your kids are grown. You've done your job in getting your kids to this point however your marriage turns out. 2. You will only have this one life to live. So far you have lived it to the expectations of other people. When will you get to live your life for you? That's not selfish - YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR OWN LIFE. 3. You have already experienced a diminished sexual desire for your wife. I think this will get worse until you are no longer able to perform with your wife at all. What then? (By the way, for me, performing oral sex on my wife was the first thing to go.) 4. You cannot heal your wife's pain. She will have her own journey to travel. Her journey is different from yours. 5. You are waiting until you are "ready" to come out. There is no such thing, and it's really your fears convincing you that you are not "ready." You will never feel ready in your circumstances, and your fears will continue to hold "you're not ready" over you forever. Stop listening to those fears. 6. You say that "it's hard to put your family aside for the sake of what I want." I know that idea all too well. It's what kept me in the closet for so long. We get this idea that deciding to live an authentic life, and all that decision entails, means we are destroying our family. It's not true. But it's another fear talking to you. Your kids will still be your kids. The only thing you would really be doing here is ending a marriage that no longer works for you. Your family will still be your family. 7. You described your instinct to protect your family as primal. There's something else that's primal here - your innate sexual desire for men. That's primal too. It's not going away. 8. This statement from you is very illuminating: "At this moment I just wish I had more time to explore ,expand, enhance my homosexuality. Just wish I could do it without hurting someone I love." You are making the assumption in that statement that keeping the status quo won't also be hurting someone you love. You should consider that staying in your marriage is just as destructive to your wife's self-esteem and confidence in herself as leaving her will be. While you think you will be protecting her by staying, perhaps staying will end up with the same results as leaving. 9. Your wife is fearful that she won't be able to survive on her own. That clouds her good judgment and proper thinking on what's ultimately right for her. She supports you staying with her because she is afraid of being alone. Imagine how that will make her feel in years to come that she sacrificed her happiness for security. Your posts are really all about you - your desires, your fears, your responsibilities to your family. What's best for her? 10. Re-read #2. At 56 years old, you have, statistically speaking, perhaps 20-30 years of life left. It's your last chapter. What regrets will you have at the end of it? I don't know what's right for you and your wife and family. I only wanted to give you some things to think about. Whatever you decide, I hope the best for you. Take care.
You are sooooo right. My fears for her are what keeps me in my marriage but I should fear for what’s to come. When will I reach the point of not being able to make love to her? I have fear, during the rare times that we make love, that I won’t be able to perform. That I won’t get going and she will know. I’m pretty sure my wife has to suspect something after knowing me all these years, knowing I called myself “bi” at one time, a few random comments I’ve made over the years. But I do think that I really fear she will not be able to handle the truth, that she won’t make it on her own, and that my happiness is not as important as “our” happiness. I just wish I could have the courage to go through with it.
You have made some very good points . I found #9 especially revealing . Although I have thought on how scared she may be to be alone, I never followed it through to its effects on her decisions . I feel as though I am at a point were I need to take a appreciable step forward . When she confronted me on my desires I backed down . I could have turned it into an opportunity to have a constructive dialog. I cannot move forward without a serious discussion with her. I need to address these fears and beliefs to better prepare myself for this discussion. I also need to initiate the discussion at a time when we can discuss our feelings openly . I am meeting with a friend of mine who was married with children and is now out and married to a man. I hope to get some advice and inspiration from him. Thank you all for your responses. You have all been very helpful .
REPLY: I do not recommend staying in this holding pattern waiting for a solution that hurts no one and/or a solution that causes no pain. As gently as I can say it, that solution does not exist. Both of you are already hurting. Since early January I have had the same thoughts that I do not want to hurt my wife by separating from her. But guess what? I have passively been hurting her each day of our 28 years of marriage while living inauthentically and dis-passionately -- right alongside her. As a master people-pleaser. I thought I was pleasing her. What I was really doing was protecting my "reputation." How excruciating it was' I reached a point where I could not live one more day like that. One more day would have destroyed me-- and maybe her, too. Your situation is unique from mine, but I ask that you ponder these things nonetheless. I hope you don't settle for "flirting with the idea for the rest of your life." I think you deserve more.
I suggest finding a copy of Dr. Joe Kort's wonderful book "Ten Smart THings Gay Men Can Do to Find Real Love", which has almost nothing to do with finding real love, and everything to do with understanding who you are and dealing with the coming out process. In that book, there are a couple of chapters specifically for heterosexually married gay men. I think you'll find those chapters very illuminating (along with the rest of the book.) Dr. Kort basically makes the case that in nearly all cases, the wives of gay men knew or suspected that their husband was gay before the marriage took place. And so, basically, they are complicit, whether they were consciously aware or not. As others have stated, in your case, your wife knows, but wants to stay conveniently in denial. And, really, that isn't fair to either of you because it's keeping you both in an unhappy situation. Sometimes, the best choice is to walk right into the fear and, metaphorically, tear the band-aid off. Will there be pain? Sure. But in the long run, if both of you look at it with an open mind, I think it can be better for both of you.
