I hate cultural appropriation

@sam in a nutshell, yes. Unfortunately, common sense isn't all that common. There's a sweet irony in western countries like France banning the burqa, while that and similar garments are used in fashion shows. Maybe some think they're being progressive, by mocking something considered "bad" and "regressive", but they're doing the exact opposite, really, by dictating which parts of a culture are acceptable or not, and co-opting pieces for their own shallow amusement/enjoyment.

Yoga was first brought to attention by New Age believers, wasn't it? Some folks think they're being worldly by say, converting to Buddhism, but not all do it with noble intentions. Some are looking for new meaning in their lives, but go about it the wrong way. This meme paints a pretty good picture of what I mean and so does this one. The fact that something is potentially offensive to many people should be reason enough to pause, but it seems more people are concerned with their own "rights", like spoiled children told they can't have a toy.

@Secret I haven't heard of any wide scale adoption of the Christian cross as a fashion symbol by non-believers, but seeing how pervasive the religion is (and how it was thrust on communities across the globe), it wouldn't surprise me if believers were the first to start doing so. I know I'd be uncomfortable wearing one, as an agnostic that was raised Catholic, but can't speak for others.

 

I thought the burqa thing was Khloe K? Or was it a niqab she was wearing? :eusa_doh:

 

I think there's a difference between misrepresentation and appreciation.

I see nothing wrong with people borrowing from other cultures, so long as they do so in a respectful way. I understand that some people are offended by this, and as such, respect their opinion, as I'm not really in a position to say what is or isn't offensive to others.

(Eg: Blackface - Hell no, that's racist as hell, Braids - Why the hell not?)

---------- Post added 20th Mar 2016 at 07:20 PM ----------

I've never heard anyone outside of Tumblr (specifically American Tumblr users) mention cultural appropriation at all, however, so maybe I'm a little out of the frame on this one.

 

Yes, I think this is what it comes down to. I think you could legitimately criticise someone for wearing a crucifix just to "be fashionable/controversial/edgy" or whatever, rather than because it's a representation of their beliefs. I don't think they should be punished for something like that, because all it shows is a lack of awareness, but it's fair to pull them up on it.

Meanwhile I think people should be encouraged to read Buddhism or take up Yoga because they want to learn more about it and actively engage with it. Yes - it's probably not going to be *pure* or accurately represent the culture - but that's the process of learning; you're going to make mistakes, the point is you're engaging with the culture to find what in it you want to use in your life - you're not dismissing it.

The problem is, it's not in the least bit easy to assess people's intentions. Which is part of the reason why I'm somewhat suspicious of people using cultural appropriation as grounds to stop people doing things (e.g. I read about a US university stopping a yoga class or something like that?).

 

I see how it can sometimes be harmful (for example, wearing a bindi or a Native American headdress when it does not pertain to you/has no real significance for you beyond thinking it looks "cool", even though they are symbolic and meaningful in other cultures). I don't really get it beyond that. I remember when everyone started freaking out because Kylie Jenner was wearing cornrows in an Instagram selfie. I don't really see what the issue is there. I don't think she should be forbidden from wearing cornrows because she is not black and because cornrows are an exclusively black hairstyle. The idea is ridiculous.

 

Shit. I better go back to wearing snowshoes and hunting beavers then. Oh, wait. My own ancestors stole that from the natives. Guess I should go farther and wear a beret while going around with a baguette under my arm.

Yeah, to me, the whole concept is bullshit. Culture is a melting pot, not segregated entities.

 

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea from my earlier post. I really try to respect other cultures. Really. But I can't and wouldn't even know how to to begin to repay some of the horrible things my ancestors have done. I just want to respectfully experience other cultures and take what I like from it, not butcher the entire culture by disrespecting something important. I even try to avoid conversations about race and ethnicity because I don't even know what to say. I don't want to have to represent the people I represent, but I don't get a choice. I'm not trying to garner pity, just stating the way I feel. Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.

 

I think the phrase cultural appropriation is too broad to be useful. Cultural exploitation would be a better term, and would be a bit easier to define. After all some blending of culture is to be expected. Saying I cant make my own tortillas at home because I'm white would be pretty out there. But white people using American Indian religious ceremony's to make money (sweat lodges), is clearly exploitive.

 

Ah, the old cultural appropriation debate.

Personally, I don't agree with claiming certain things as belonging to one culture and forbidden to everyone else who doesn't belong to that culture. It's counterproductive to trying to get people to respect each other for their differences and it's only going to divide us by forcing us further into racial and cultural boxes.

However, I do think we should keep to things in mind when borrowing from other cultures:
1. Give credit where credit is due. For example recognize that things music styles like jazz and rap originated within "African American" culture and appropriately credit them as such. I don't think this means that non-black people shouldn't be allowed to participate in these since what is that going accomplish, but we should recognize the roots and history of these music genres.

2. Be respectful to the culture in which you are borrowing these things from. I think this is where most of the gray area and confusion are because no one can agree on exactly what defines "respectful." But obviously we can clearly say don't intentionally try to make a caricature of another culture and keep an open mind to learn more about them other than the surface stereotypes

 

Interesting...I didn't realize. I'd assumed tea had migrated from China to India on its own before the British got there. But I see no impact to my main point.

 

I honestly don't believe in cultural appropriation. If you study most cultures, you'll find out that there's hardly anything that developed on its own. Clothes, language, ideology, art, social relationships, eating habits, festivals, holidays, legends... Everything has been influenced by different cultures and sometimes in the most unpredictable ways. Did you know that some Japanese foods were actually heavily influenced by Portuguese cuisine, back in the XVI century? Or that it's only thanks to the culture appropriation done by the Arabs back in their Golden age that the West had access to a lot of information about Greek philosophy and history?

Totally agree.

 

Then it would seem that the thing to censure is the initial condemnation; not the "appropriation".

Majority cultures do tend to act like assholes, taking advantage of the others. Just as majorities within cultures. Just as majorities within subcultures. Shall we condemn humanity for having this fundamental failing? Or shall we work to overcome it?

 

That's exactly what I was thinking, maybe this is a cultural aspect of American society. Then I started to panic, what if I start worrying about cultural appropriation too? Would Americans be sneering at me for stealing a part of their culture? Then I remembered what language everyone here is speaking, which happens to be a big part of my culture since I live in England.

:eusa_doh:

 

Even if it was decided to be a problem, it's completely arbitrary. Who would have the right to define what is and is not cultural appropriation? How would anti-appropriation laws be enforced? It's simply ridiculous and I reject that it even exists.

 

Read my post again, I'm talking about mainstream black rap artists. Look at the rap artists that make the charts, the likes of Jay Z, Kanye, Chris Brown, Fetty Wap etc. Most of them have rapped about some incredibly controversial (and often illegal/dangerous) topics.

Nothing necessarily wrong with that (and I do listen myself) BUT if we tolerate the rap being used in this manner we cannot then go on to make it out to be somehow "holy" and only to be used by black people for helping talk about black issues (which clearly does not always happen a lot of the time).

Now I'm presuming this one is directed at me as I was the only one responding to this particular point (not sure why you couldn't just have quoted me though?).

Just because something has a spiritual or moral meaning doesn't mean it a. benefits those who hold it with such regard, or b. should be above criticism.

The Bible or Quran for instance could be described in such a manner even though they have passages critical of gay relationships, women's rights, disability etc. Does that mean we have to "take them as Gospel" (pun definitely intended)? Or can we stand up and say "actually, I know this is holy but I have to disagree with this".

I'm not sure where you are based, but living in Europe where the wearing of the Burqa is more prevalent than the States it is clear that it is often at odds with day to day Western life and so bans in public places do make some sense.

In banks for instance people are prohibited from wearing facial coverings (be they balaclavas or motorcycle helmets) due to genuine security risks, so I really don't see why a burqa is any less of a risk. Additionally, again like other obfuscating wear, it can be intimidating to other citizens, and limit the interaction necessary in a hell of a lot of social and employment situations. As humans facial identity and expressions are very important, so to essentially cut off these senses entirely is drastic - it essentially forces others to become blind. Making a quick decision of if someone is showing anger/upset/anxious/lying etc for example can be crucial in some situations, and the face is often the biggest clue. Add in the one-sided nature of this arrangement which is often put down to misogyny (that only women go to these extremes and in Western Muslim communities many Muslim men don't even wear head-coverings or beards) and it really is highly controversial.

So yes, no problem personally with hijabs as they generally allow for normal participation in society and adequate security, but I think bans on burqas (as controversial as they sound) do ultimately make sense.

I think Western yoga often gets a lot of stick.

Is it identical to traditional yoga? Of course not. The settings it is practiced in are quite different, as are the participants. But this idea that before yoga's introduction to Western society it was only ever spiritual or divine is a bit of a myth too. Yoga had long had an element of being a medicine or exercise, and I'm sure even centuries ago some people enjoyed it (and the health/body benefits) hedonistically!

 

Welps, If you mean mainstream then you have a fairly good point but some rap that is popular doesn't always talk about sex , drugs, poppin a cap in someone, and hoes. thanks for clarifying (!)

 

I used to get frustrated whenever the topic of cultural appropriation. Why people get upset over petty things? Instead of arguing whether something is offensive or not, I'm just going to support people's rights to offend and people's rights to be offended. A free society is not nice. I would pick freedom over niceness anyday. As long as it is legal in the local region, I have no qualms over things like blackface, putting those feathered headwear, bindis, tilaks whatever. To me, no culture is safe from being ridiculed, mocked and parodied. Prejudice is going to exist as long as differences exist, might as well enjoy it. People will see me as an asshole. But, it's their business and I have no responsibility for their feelings.
And this movie, an exemplary example of whiteface, is absolutely hilarious xD
White Chicks (2004) - IMDb

 

I don't believe in cultural appropriation, and I certainly don't think sharing culture, even if misguided or offensive, is wrong (of course if you're trying to purposely be offensive, it's wrong for being inconsiderate, but not wrong to be using aspects of their "culture").

 

Can I ask how?