Why is femininity in men so hated and disliked?

My opinions on this subject are probably know by now, but I just want to clarify those who are using the statement "But I am not homophobic" to justify the still blatantly ignorance that they are displaying within their posts, you are perfectly right. You are not being homophobic. You are being self-centered and misogynistic.

First, it is interesting how the subject of the acceptance of non-masculine men and non-feminine women is always morphed into the subject of whether or not their characteristics sexually appealing one individual or another. Fun fact: No one asked! Rather than habitually feeling the urged to make the subject of acceptance of gender variant, bisexual, or racial minorities about whether or not their presences happens to arouse or aesthetically please you, it might better to consider acknowledging the additional obstacles that they are forced to overcome in society and leaving it there. After all, we might not always be in complete control of what we find attraction; however, we are always in complete control of our words and how we choose to use them.

Secondly, simply because we might not be conscious spewers of hate does not mean that we unconsciously perpetuate sexist and detrimental ideals. The fact that you choose to end with the statement of "I am not homophobic/sexist" or "But that doesn't mean that I don't respect them" does not mean that you are actually accepting, supportive, or respectful. It doesn't justify or excuse anything that came before it. It is a statement that has literally no meaning or value considering that you are attempting to add approval and justification to your own words. There is a reason why children do not grade their own essays in grade school. If you feel the need to argue the validity of your words before anyone even has a chance to bring attention to them, then it is clear that you are already well aware that they were flawed from the beginning. You knew that they were going to be debated. You knew that they were going to offend, yet you choose to say them anyway.

Gender variant and non-conforming individuals are statistically the single most targeted demographic in terms of rape, assault, and murder. In countries were homosexuality is still criminalized, toddlers have and still are being sent to correction camps and outright murdered by parents for for crying to much, picking up the "wrong" toy, or even showing the slightest ounce of what societies deems to be femininity. Youth are committing suicide week after week before their sexual or gender identities even truly had enough time to develop because they were already receiving ridicule from peers who saw them as unsightly, annoying, attention-seeking, and weak. Who used those very excuses to ridicule them, beat them, and push them to their limit.

If the extent of the hatred and pure evil that is thrown as gender variant and non-conforming individuals in societies was based on whether they tickled your fancy, then we would live in a far better world. Enough with the excuses. Enough with the backhanded claims of support and acceptance. Stop making this about you, get over yourself, and show the most minimal amount of respect for people within this community who are struggle far more than anyone should ever have to.

 

Well said!

 

To Gen -

I don't know who the post was aimed at, but it sure did fit my post as well so I will reply:

I can imagine how hard it is for people who don't feel like one of the two classic genders, I think all of us here can, since we've all gone through a hard time finding out who we are.

But that doesn't mean I must LIKE these people's looks and behaviour. I understand their perils, I wish them the best luck for the happiest life they can get, but I simply am slightly put off by such people, just like I am put off by die-hard metal fans or people who are into cosplay. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with such people, hell, one of my best friends is a stereotypical metalist - it's just traits that I dislike and would never take part in.

Pretending to like somebody when you actually don't and never will, won't help them.

 

Choice of expression is not telling of ones appearance or presence. Feminine men presenting as Disney princesses and masculine women presenting as lumberjacks is no less rare than masculine men and feminine women appearing the same.

Clearly, you are only interested in bulky meatheads who prefer to spend their time chugging alcohol, starting fights, and living in filth. They would certainly fail to keep up with this conversation anyway, because, as we know, all men are idiots. You must love a women who is never caught in a pair of pants, always remembers to keep things cute and dainty, and knows her place as the submissive in the relationship.

Don't tell me that simply because they are masculine or feminine it doesn't make those stereotypes true. Don't tell me that there are millions of different people out there and it is rude and ignorant to make sweeping statements based on stereotypes. Don't tell me that masculine men and feminine women encompass an immense range of people that couldn't never be group together under those bigoted statements. For it would be unbecoming to act as though I know anything of even a fraction of all people of those demographic simply because a few simpleminded stereotypes and T.V. sitcoms told me so.

Interestingly enough, I never even asked anyone to force themselves to love anything. I never asked that you find certain groups attracted. The only question I directed at you and anyone else in this thread who made similar comments is Who asked? Who asked about your preferences? Who asked about your thoughts of the appeal of their identity? When did the conversation of the lack of support surrounding another group of people become about what pleases you? What did you honestly think would happen if these people weren't randomly made aware of how extremely uninterested you where in them and their identities?

 

Gen, you are a fanatic, but I will still try and explain to you what I have in mind:

I completely agree with you that people come in all shapes and sizes, and as I have stated numerous times, I have no problem at all with what other people look like or act like.

I'm just saying that if I don't like someone's looks or behaviour, I am not very likely to seek friendship of that person. Of course, I give everyone a chance.

By telling me it's wrong to dislike something, you are basically asking me to like it.

The OP asked. In my post, I stated why I dislike it, and why I think others and the society does. Giving an example, a piece of data in the statistic, is only polite.

Just like some people dislike the colour brown, I dislike feminine men. That's the way the world works. Gen, you are blinded by your crusade for equal rights. Don't be a fanatic.

 

Oh so liking Beyoncé makes me feminine? Okay

 

Please, highlight a quote from either of my posts that shamed you for not being attracted to a certain group. Feel free to take as long as necessary.

Here is where the contradictions begin. You have repeatedly claimed that you see nothing wrong with gender non-conforming men. According the statements that you have made, the only conflict is that you don't find them personally appealing. Yet in a thread where the only question posed is "Why is femininity in men so hated and disliked?", rather than acknowledge that the amount of hate they receive is unacceptable, your automatic reaction is to exclaim the reasons why you wouldn't want them as partners nor likely even friends. Not to mention, explaining why your view is justified as men are meant to be masculine and women are meant to be feminine.

You now wish to understate the blatant statements that you made previously because you felt that my post was directly primarily towards you. Quite frankly, your post was not the only response that mine was directed towards, nor would I have even directly highlighted your's specifically because the inaccuracies that it suggested about nature and the human disposition were already enough to tell me that a debate would almost certain amount to nothing.

Though I should really stop there because this is basically a mute point until you can show me exactly where I have claimed that anyone does not have the right to be attracted to only a select group of people. Show me that quote and we can actually make progress here.

I am not being unreasonable. I am not even being aggressive. Let us remember that I am not the one attempted to persuade anyone of anything. You are the one rushing to argue that this is no issue with the statements that you have made in this thread and the justification you use to make them seem acceptable. I called attention to a pattern that was being formed in this thread. The attempts to justify unnecessary and inconsiderate comments through the use of stereotypes and generalizations. You have resorted to name-calling and repeating the same statements because you have nothing left to say. It is interesting that you find my responses so insane and combative, yet you are the only one who has voiced issue with them.

Though if you would consider having issue with people publicly voicing their distastes for another group of people without reason blindly crusading for equal rights, then consider me blind. Consider me irrational and confrontational because I have little patience for stubborn ignorance. Allowing ourselves to default onto stereotypes and generalizations when speaking on a social group is to encourage a mindset that leads to oppression and violence. Whenever you happen to find those comments that you claim that I've made and take the time to actually present a thoughtful argument, then we can have a discussion about this; however, if you are waiting for me and the vast majority of this community to assure you that your misguided perception another group is something that should something that should be support, or even respected, then you might as well let the conversation end now.

 

You think it isn't offensive to say that you picture femininity as an annoying trait? That nobody's going to be annoyed that you an take the moral high ground by what you call clarifying with a repetition of the same drivel?

You must be very skilled at mental gymnastics to think that you can say that and not be responsible for saying it.

 

Gen, I don't have the patience to write a long reply but basically you are taking my words and stretching them to the most extreme interpretation you could gain out of them.

I think your attitude is wrong. You are basically complaining that every post in this thread does not contain "people who are not one of the two classic genders have really hard lives and I acknowledge it and I think most people in this world are evil that they make fun of them and...". Yeah I agree with that, but it's just unneccessary blabbering. We all know that. Just like most of the people in this thread, I answered the question the OP posed. I think you are dragging unneccessary drama into the topic - instead of getting to the point, you're exclaiming emotions.

Also, you have indeed never directly stated I have to like such traits. What you did was write an essay on how wrong it is of me not to like them.

 

Then why are you arguing against it? I find that rather difficult to believe.

 

Guys and girls above already answered your question, I guess. ^^ Nevertheless I am going to add my 5 cents... Why feminine guys are hated? Because it is very very rare! It is a natural reaction for a person who observe something that seems weird to him to reject that weird thing at the first place. And then if he is being influenced by the same thing over and over the shock is going away and eventually he will get used to it and become more accepting. So, if you look around in the Western world there are significantly fewer feminine guys than those who are masculine or average. Now look at the societies of Japan and Korea. Feminine looking and acting guys are all around there and their modern culture embraces it. In those countries it is not a stigma for a man to possess qualities traditionally belonging to woman.

Speaking from my own perspective I am certainly for men embracing their feminine side. I am myself a little bit of a feminine man and to be honest I feel happy to see other guys who share same qualities with me.

 

No, I am just defending myself, because I am being accused of being intolerant when in fact I am not.

 

This will be my final response on this topic.

My posts were long because I was being thorough. Had I have just wanted to shame anyone in this thread I could easily done it in one sentence. It would certainly save time out of my day. I provide examples and explanation along with my claims because I genuinely want those who might have been unaware to become aware of these things.

There is not a single person alive who has never been intolerant. Never done something problematic or said something insensitive. We aren't born with omniscient, perfect perspectives on life. We all have to learn to open our eyes to the ways in which we can personally have an affect on others. If we were all less concerned with being seen as intolerant, prejudice, insensitive, etc, rather than honestly taking the time to listen to people who are taking the time to tell us that something that we might have said or done often has a much larger negative impact on others than we realize, we would live in a much better world.

And for the record:

 

I think people dislike in others what they dislike about themselves.

Many people seem insecure. Women often want a tough manly man who does not remind them of themselves, whereas effeminate guys are like an annoying mirror. I guess a similar thing might apply for gays who are insecure about their own feminine side.

Conservative cis-normals?
I'd imagine that as with feminine guys, masculine women are also in a kind of no man's land, and ostracised from mainstream society.

 

I think it is mainly because of the idea that a male should be 'manly' and tough, an ideal repeated within culture (history, media, literature etc.). I stress the point that they SHOULD BE as society implies, when really a person should be whoever they feel happiest to be, whether masculine, feminine or anywhere in between.

 

Basically because we live in a patriarchal society (mascualinity is prized over femininity), males are seen as lowering themselves if they express femininity. It's also why it's more ok for a girl to be masculine than a boy to be feminine as the girl is adopting values seen as being better.

 

I disagree that feminity in men is so ostracized these days - I mean look at men today, if anything it is the norm for everyone, women or men, to spend loads of time and chemicals on your body to look better, body hair is becoming less and less acceptable on more parts of the male body every year, etc.

In a way, we are becoming much more like the Greek and Roman societies of old. Societies where beauty was, apart from the build of the body, de-facto universal for both genders.