Am I the only gay person who doesn't like abortion?

For some people it does LOL

 

There are a couple of really big problems with a response like this. First, it's not consistent. This view, in order to have any teeth, has to be that abortion is murder, and all murder is the same. So, if you're advocating mandatory community service and not prison time, you're not representing a belief that abortion is murder, because you're not saying abortion merits a punishment proportional to that of murder. Or you're saying that it's a different, "lesser" kind of murder. (But that can't work: murder is murder.) Or you're saying that all murder punishments should be very sharply diminished. Any three of these alternatives make this kind of position look uncredible. Second, what you're advocating is slavery, kind of like forcing women to carry a fetus to term against their will. Also, this is violence against women, and we'd be state sanctioning that.

 

And by "there's ample time to get a pregnancy test," you're saying that a woman has to "catch it early" or be forced to carry to term. That in my opinion is slavery and torture, and I don't think that's fair.

There's also medical necessity, which is a real issue, as we have seen in Ireland recently, where some doctors got on their high horse about being against abortion, which caused them to very cruely murder an Indian woman last year.

 

The majority of the pro-choice argument is based on moral relativity - if everyone agreed with everyone else there would be no need for laws in the first place.

---------- Post added 14th Apr 2013 at 09:45 PM ----------

Should abortion be legal 5 minutes before the baby comes out of the vagina?

 

At that point, the pregnant person would be pretty far into labour and it would be easier to simply proceed with live birth. But in another late term situation, I have no moral objection to aborting the fetus. It's extremely rare, however, for doctors to perform abortions that late into a pregnancy unless it's medically necessary.

 

Yes. You're clearly trying to make me look silly or evil by throwing out a hypothetical. I linked to a real situation that's actually happened, where a woman got killed by an extremely evil point of view.

I'll bite that bullet, because it's the easiest one to take. I think the ones for your side are even harder; especially if the last general election results are considered.

I mean, if you're really so invested that you're going to put thought experiments out there to try to hammer out a crack in my position, that's fine. However, I feel compelled to say that I believe a realization of your position would amount to state-sanctioned violence against women, and I think that would be inhumane and morally reprehensible in the extreme.

I would say that our democracy has gone completely off the deep end at that point.

 

I don't agree with abortion, but I think it is a choice - one that should be made by the potential parents. I just don't think women or their vaginas should be owned by the government, but I'm just a silly libertarian.

 

Well, almost every first world country disagrees with you in this instance.

 

Then they're being entirely inconsistent in their laws on abortion.

I'm happy to say that Canada has no such restriction, despite the recent failed attempts by a few Conservative MPs to reopen the topic. And I feel I must point out that late term abortions in Canada are almost exclusively performed out of medical necessity. If someone carries a fetus into the third trimester, it's very likely that they intend to carry it to term.

 

Excuse me, I am not a woman, but doesn't it take a while before a woman realizes she is "late"? Especially those who aren't that regular or have long intervals anyway?
And then, wouldn't a doctor give a woman some maybe even mandatory thinking time? It's not like they find out they are pregnant and think "yippee, let's have an abortion!"
I think there will be some shock, panic and some struggle. I don't think people particularly like to go for an abortion and will seek help for making a choice. They might want to find out what the alternatives are first.

I can see how this might take some time from the first moment you found out you were pregnant, which also might be like in week 8-9 or something.
I know my mom only had 4-5 periods a year....

Also, I don't think pregnant women purposely wait. It's always circumstances. Ofcourse we can not like the fact it happens late sometimes and might feel like it is "unfair" to the child or even "murder", but it is a justified action. We mustn't forget that. There is always a reason!


And again, it will happen anyway. It's not like when it's illegal, it won't happen. We KNOW that. It just happens somewhere else on in another way. Or the baby is killed as soon as it born. I don't think that is better than legal abortion in a safe way.

How many of us had a hard time accepting we were LGBT? What if people said : "Well. As soon as you know, you HAVE TO COME OUT otherwise it is immoral blablabla? "
Sometimes it takes time to accept and adjust to the situation before you are ready to take ANY action. Especially when it's about something that is life changing.
I can totally get it when a woman needs some time to realize what pregnancy and having a child will mean to her. And that she will look at all alternatives before thinking about abortion.

But to be honest, I can see how it is a lot easier to take the morning after pill, but there is always a chance (greater, I suppose?) that she isn't pregnant, and then it seems a bit over the top to take a hormone overload, so I understand why a woman might just wait to see if she gets her period.

And ofcourse birth control is the way to go, but it doesn't always work and not every body (literally) can handle them.

As for adoption:
This caught my eye just now.
Supreme Court to consider adoption case of American Indian girl

And I can imagine situations in which it is really hard to give up your child that you carried.

I think it is an extremely hard situation to be pregnant of an untimely/unwanted child and understand that mothers seek abortion, just like I understand how others will give the child up for abortion. Which seems even more heartbreaking to me.
But I still feel the choice should be up to the mother.

---------- Post added 15th Apr 2013 at 09:59 AM ----------

They started out for ORPHANS!!!!!

Now it's a business. People want to get rich and there is a big demand for babies, so yes, let's try to get as many as possible! NOT a good argument, I think, against abortion.
Reality, maybe, but it makes me sick to think a poor girl that wanted to have an abortion has to carry a child because someone else wants it so badly.
To me it doesn't feel like they are helping the girls. To me it feels like they have "brood moms" to help them (the agencies) get rich.
Looks a lot like slavery to me....

---------- Post added 15th Apr 2013 at 10:07 AM ----------

Come to think of it, it is a good argument against abortion to want as many born as possible. That just came out wrong. I mean you shouldn't have control over the pregnant women because agencies want as many babies as possible.

 

lt's interesting that you made the question essentially about yourself when it's a debate that involves billions of people.

l'm sure many young mothers consider it and don't tell their children so l wouldn't think you were the only person who had almost been aborted.

l'm not sure that it's a qualifier for taking a political stance against it.

l'm like the others who have said l would support it but probably wouldn't have one. You can support a choice for other people and make a different decision for yourself.

 

O.k.

Ofcourse prevention in the best birth control, but shit happens.

And "adoption agencies" triggered something in me.

 

Ideally it shouldn't have to happen. Sadly we don't live in an ideal world so if it's what the woman wants that's her choice.

 

casual reminder that not everybody with a uterus is a woman

 

I don't think that anybody LIKES abortions.

I'm almost 100% certain that no one has ever said "I want to get pregnant just so I can have an abortion."

HOWEVER, you don't have to like one to get one. If one is pregnant, and they don't want to keep the child, or they know they won't be able to carry the child to term, or for basically anything other reason, then it's a personal decision up to that person, or that couple, and their medical provider.

 

In my personal opinion, I think it's wrong. A life is a life, no matter how old they are. I especially can't stand it if it's because of a stupid reason like they didn't use a condom or they had willing underage sex and didn't want to be judged. I understand people can get bullied because of it, but if you're mature enough to decide to have sex with someone, you're mature enough to handle the consequences. Of course if there's a medical danger, I don't have anything to say. If you have to choose between one life or the other then that's fine. But killing a baby because you were too lazy to use a condom and not mature enough to face the consequences? I don't see how that's fair at all. Once again, this is all my personal opinion on the matter. I'm not trying to force anything on anyone, just giving my views. And I do understand that there are other, more valid reasons to get an abortion. I was just talking about the reason that ticked me off the most.