Am I the only gay person who doesn't like abortion?

All absolutely irrelevant.

No, the issue isn't whether the fetus is alive or not. If the fetus wasn't alive, then it would be stupid not to remove it. The issue is whether a person should be legally required to care for (and carry) a dependent organism (and they shouldn't be).

No, the fetus occupies the womb, which is part of a woman's body. A fetus has no legal entitlement to occupy the womb.

 

No, actually it is "your body". The fetus that is inside is feeding off the mother's nutrients and food and such and is physically attached to her by an umbilical cord. As someone previously said, the fetus is technically a parasite. With that, I feel like the mother has full control of what's inside her. Even if you consider the fetus to be alive, it is still inside the mother, and I believe that makes it apart of her body.

My belief is that a woman can do whatever she pleases when it comes to abortion. I am a man, so I can't give birth, and I'm a gay man, so I probably won't impregnate anyone soon. With all of that, the only valid input I should be giving about abortion is that I don't care why or when a woman gets an abortion. She is being selfish and doesn't want a kid? Eh, whatever. She is too poor and made a mistake? Not any of my business.

My final point is that a woman's human rights matter more than that of a developing fetus, by far.

Also, "feminist hate"? Really?

 

I don't care.

I don't care.

I don't care.

The disagreement isn't about whether or not the fetus is alive. There is no possible way I could care any less about that. It's about the sick kind of people we'd become trying to criminalize abortion.

I think many of you folks recognize how sick this is, because nobody here yet has answered the question of what the punishment should be. They don't want to say what it is, because they don't want to look heartless. On the other hand, they know that if they say they do not want a punishment under the law, then they look silly for wanting to create a crime without a punishment.

Similarly, we have people who think abortion should be illegal except in cases of rape. This is patently a ridiculous position. The only way to believe abortion is wrong is to believe it's murder, and if you believe it's murder, then you can't logically support the exemption for rape. We know the exemption is being advanced so as not to appear heartless, but once again, it comes at great cost to logical consistency.

 

Yes, it's really explicit. They focus the vagina while simultaneously showing the ultrasound . You can see the doctor shoving instruments inside the woman's body. There's a point when you can see brain tissue coming out and one of its extremities. It's extremely unsettling and sensationalist. I think I was 15 when I watched that video, my classmates were 16-17.

And no, there was never anything of a woman giving birth. In my opinion, both are revolting.

First off, it's MY body. The "kid" (it's a fetus, not a kid, start making that distinction) does NOT have a body of its own. It's tiny. Diminute. So small you need a microscope to see it properly. Not. A. Kid.

The fetus is 2-3mm when the heart muscles begin to contract, but it's not truly a heart. They're incipient heart muscles that could give origin to a heart later on. In addition, it's not always possible to detect a heartbeat this early; the heartbeat is usually audible at 12-15 weeks. It's relatively uncommon to have an abortion at this point.

Later on in your post, you make reference to a fetus during its fifth month, WAY after the first trimester where most abortions occur. This is just sensationalist. When you don't want a kid, you want to get rid of the potential kid asap. People don't normally wait five months to do it.

As for your whole post, it is exactly what I was talking about in mine.

I don't know how to make this any clearer: the "child's" rights are irrelevant in comparison to the woman's rights. Whatever is growing within her is strictly dependent of her, inside of her, and will do all sorts of things to her body. Women have the right to decide if they want to go through this or not.

However, there is no discussion in regards to the life of the fetus. A fetus IS alive. The difference is a fetus is NOT a person, NOT a child, and NOT a baby. A fetus will eventually grow into a baby, but not without greatly affecting its mother's life first, for better or for worse. It doesn't have a body of its own, it depends exclusively on its mother to survive. It's not a baby at this point, it's more akin to a parasite than a child. People need to understand the difference between a fetus and a child.

Funny thing is, if men were the ones to get pregnant, abortion would've been legalized a very long time ago. Yay sexist societies.

 

One random thought: Abortion should be legal for as long as gay couples can't adopt. When gay couples are legally able to get married and adopt, there should be a government-run agency that pairs up gay couples and infertile hetero couples that want to adopt a kid with pregnant women who want to have an abortion. Problem solved!

I'm kidding, BTW.

I just want to make a friendly reminder to keep your emotions in check. Make sure the discussion does not turn personal. Thank you

 

Some of you guys need to relax. :lol:

This is a forum with over 20,000 posters - of course you're going to have people who disagree with you. No need to get pissed off.

 

Punishment should be different for the woman having an abortion and the doctor/whoever is facilitating it: Mandatory Community Service for 6 months for the mother, given the fact that most abortions happen between 4 and 12 weeks. Medical license revoked if it's a legit doctor, plus at least a year of Mandatory Community Service as well.

I also believe that rape is not a good enough reason to justify abortion. A medical condition where it's impossible for the mother and the fetus to survive is the ONLY situation where I would support an abortion.

 

god bless abortions.

 

no one likes abortion.

it is a myth that people are excited to have abortions.

 

You really want children on this world that are hated by their parents because they were unwanted?
You need to have a word with my boyfriend. He went through HELL because his parents hated him. And they went to jail for what happened in that house. And he had intensive therapy and still had some issues.To give you and idea without going into detail.

@ Jay And why abort when the mother and the fetus are in danger? Let them die. One of the possibilities when you choose to get pregnant.
If you have principles, follow them through.

I think everybody is free to have an opinion, but I don't think we can't force a mother to carry the child for nine months and then give it away.

The final decision should be with the person that is affected the most, either way. That's the mother.

And, you really think it doesn't happen if it's illegal? They just find other ways or go to a different country...

I think it's better to get it easy and safe, so some women don't indeed (have to) wait way too long.

 

It's hard to relax when it's your body people are claiming to know better than you about. If you don't have a uterus, this might be some interesting debate for you, this might be a bit of fun. But if you are a person affected by this, it's agency over your own body. It IS personal, whether you want it to be or not.

 

ITT: horrible people [i.e. pro-lifers]

 

They didn't CHOOSE to have a complicated pregnancy. It happened. It's a medical condition. They might not be in this situation because of the pregnancy, some illness that is not related to the fact that you're carrying a BABY inside your womb might have hit you at the worst time ever.

So I am damned if I do, damned if I don't. I am a hypocrite if I am trying to save one life out of two instead of condemning both, but I am a troglodyte if I say that there's no instance where abortion is OK. Which one would you rather me be?

---------- Post added 14th Apr 2013 at 01:40 PM ----------

Very quick to label someone based on just one thing that does not represent their whole essence. Such a shame we don't want others doing that to us, eh?

 

Technically, you're ruining the mother and her family's lives. I'd call you horrible if you forced a woman to carry a child of her rapist and endure it for 9 months, only to give it away (or raise it, which is even worse).

 

But you say instances of rape aren't a "good enough reason"? Pregnancy from rape certainly wasn't a choice

 

Oh look anti-choicers being hypocritical big surprise I am shock

 

you happily cause people at least 9 months of pain for something easily preventable, so i think yr in no position to act as though you have the moral high ground

 

btw if you think a child should be a punishment for having sex yeah go fuck yourself

 

Is not like an adult is getting someone else sick just because they find pleasure doing so.
That's why rapists get punished.

---------- Post added 14th Apr 2013 at 02:15 PM ----------

Excuse me, but a child is never a punishment. A child is always a joy. It might be a difficult joy but I find it hard to believe any woman dismissing a baby that easily. If they do, they really have no heart.