I never said you can't criticize the things i say. In fact i welcome it. Its the only way i'll grow as a person, being constantly challenged. I'm aware that telling these kinds of jokes can have this effect on people. But, so what? Maybe i'm an asshole, excuse my french, for saying that but... if telling that joke puts a smile on peoples faces and toughens the skin of others then where is the harm? Really its more of a public service.
FemmeCassonova haveyou seen that Swede joke about horses that was going around online? Horses being a fruit? lol >_>
I certainly do not mind jokes about people with PD, if you cannot laugh at yourself, what's the point in living?
Because one of the people who smiles may be smiling because he's glad you're exposing the truth about how all gay people are femme and that being femme is bad thing. And another person may have been planning on coming out, and now that he knows that everyone else in the group thinks being gay makes you effeminate and that being effeminate is bad thing.
But so what? They already felt like that. Just because it stops that person from coming out there and then doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean that because of that one joke they will forever stay in the closet and lead a miserable life. And if it DOES mean that then, shit. I destroyed someones life. But... its not my fault. Well... it is. But its not. That person can come out whenever they so choose. I'm an openly gay man. If i tell the joke then it is saying something. I would understand your concern if the joke was told by a bigot, but then again why would said person be in that kind of environment?
First, there is a difference between a gay joke told by a gay person vs a straight person, but it isn't a huge one. My rule of thumb is to ask whether the joke can make sense if taken un-ironically. When I tell Eric he's getting sports in my gay when he talks about sports, the joke is a) aimed at myself and b) makes no sense in an un-ironic context (although it would if a straight friend where to say "Eric, don't get sports in Mogget's gay."). Second, homophobia is a social phenomenon. Put enough social pressure on homophobes and some of them will recognize that they're wrong. But if you make it clear that homophobia, in the form of gay joke, is tolerated, you're telling them that it's okay to be a little homophobic. Third, would you rather be the person a gay guy is willing to come out to because he knows you're safe, or the person he's afraid to come out to because you might laugh at him?
you probably shouldn't if there is any homophobes around because they might take it as an invite to do the same but if it is just friends or something the I don't really think they will take it to literally
So, I agree. I am saying that. But i am also saying that it is okay to laugh at yourself, to not take the world so seriously all the time. To say hey... you're going to make this joke and i'm going to laugh at it too. And I'll laugh that little bit harder because i understand it in a way you never will. Obviously I'd rather be the former, but they won't base it around one event. They'll base it around multiple events, multiple moments in their life. Or they will base it on that one moment and i'll either never find out OR i'll find out at a later date. And then i'll talk to them about it. The ability to look your aggressor in the eye and laugh WITH them about yourself is a stronger stance than silence though. It shows you are unafraid. That they can say what they want. It won't affect you.
The bold. When someone else who doesn't care for your kind is telling the joke it is not laughing at self. It is being laughed at and insulted. I can tell a lesbian joke between people I know and it will not be offensive and as you say it is laughing at us all. It also makes fun of the stereotypes. If there is a lesbian in the group i do not know I will not crack a lesbian joke. I have no idea how she will feel. If I am in a group I am pretty unfamiliar with and someone makes a gay joke It angers me. It is tough enough for us to move forward without being made fun of because these folks take that seriously. My partner who is very feminine was at the bar in a club. I am butch. The bartender started making dyke jokes about the butch who was me. He did get a drink in his face. We left. It is not funny. Sorry I sound harsh. Hugs dear.
Humor, when it is humor poking fun at ourselves, is an *incredibly* powerful tool for healing shame. When we poke fun at gay stereotypes, we own them and acknowledge them, and we normalize them. Many gifted and brilliant people have used humor as a way of touching on very difficult, delicate, and shameful topics and, by allowing us to laugh at ourselves, take the power out of what could otherwise be very hurtful stereotypes. So I strongly disagree with the notion that gay humor is inherently harmful. Now... if people aren't yet comfortable enough to see that the humor is something that they can embrace and accept as a part of themselves to be accepted and laughed about, then yes, that humor can be hurtful to them. But the solution is not to try and ban such humor (which would never be successful in any case) but instead to help people understand the intent behind it, and be able to embrace and love those parts of themselves that are often the topic of such jokes. Among my friends, we constantly make all sorts of gay jokes, tell each other "That was really gay" or "That's really faggy" or "That's about the gayest outfit I've ever seen you wear", as well as tell just about every gay joke you can think of... and we all appreciate and enjoy the humor, because it is, as I said, a way of embracing, in a positive light, who we are. I spent years at Oberlin, one of the most [language-aware / politically correct, take yoru choice of phrases] places on the planet, so I am totally aware of the whole argument about language and its ability to influence behavior and society. And one of my best friends is a social-justice oriented social worker, so I'm well aware of the whole language-aware argument. Yet in seeing the work that other professionals do using humor and laughter to go after stereotypes and break down their impact on us, and allow us to love ourselves more... I have to go with that.
Chip, I am looking at your post and I see a common thread in the text and bolded them. You use the word ourselves twice and then you say, "Among my friends...". the final phrase I bolded is and we all appreciate and enjoy the humor, because it is, as I said, a way of embracing, in a positive light, who we are. Those terms all relate to an inside joke. Such as me making fun of the dyke I am with. Or me saying to a friend Wow aren't you looking butch today. Or telling the lickalotapuss dinosaur joke within my group. Yes we do laugh at ourselves in this way. It is breaking down stereotypical ideas. To go further into what you are saying would be the use of the N word. This word is used inside the black community. It is used regularly in that community. Anyone outside of the community using that word is offensive. Anyone outside of me LGBTQ community making the same butch comments and dyke comments or the lickalotapuss joke is offensive. As I said in my earlier post, poking fun at ones self is one thing having outsiders do this is offensive. IMHO it is insulting and always will be. I have been around a long time and since day one it has not been funny and it never will be funny. We have fought far to hard to allow those who reject and ridicule us on a regular basis make jokes.
I have herd some really offensive gay jokes made by gay people themselves whether that makes the joke less offensive I dont know . http://emptyclosets.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5109&stc=1&d=1359542575 I do like this kind of humor kind of a light hated approach
I would stop it I get offended easily and angry easily I don't like gay jokes I find if it has no benefit to be gotten for is don't say it. Like this stuff is so offensive to me
Lol, no, I haven`t. Gotta look that up But I can imagine how it goes though! ---------- Post added 30th Jan 2013 at 03:54 AM ---------- Although I mostly agree with you, on the other hand, when we learn to face these jokes, ignores them, doesn`t let them bother us, and grow jaded to this kind of crap, it can make us stronger, and the insults and jokes themselves lose power. People who try to hurt people only have as much power as we give them. There are always going to be the kind of people who`ll make jokes on other people`s expense. And there will always be a**-wipes. Take the phrase "disgusting dyke". Someone says it and I cry or goes into a rage, they get instant satisfaction. I am then handing them satisfaction on a platter. However, if I instead reply with: "Maybe, but I was hot enough for your mother" they`ll get pissed off instead, or just look flabbergasted. Then the instant gratification will be going to me If anyone should get satisfaction after a lesbian joke has been served, it definitely should be the lesbian, not the joker. That`s just my personal philosophy. :icon_wink
I think it will never be funny to those people who are being joked about whilst funny to those who are joking. But I find it funny though.
I don't think homosexuality is something to make a mockery out of. To make fun of how many heterosexual joke do you hear? I've heard a few but they can't offend a hetero they don't have anything to feel ashamed or embarrassed about. I think if we ourselves start to make a mockery out of our own sexuality how can we then expect the Ernest if the heterosexual world to take us seriously if we make it seem like we don't take ourselves seriously. It's like racial jokes some people will find it funny as most people will say "that's racist" when I hear people say don't say The "N" word it's racist I obviously won't use it but when I hear it in so many songs today it makes me feel like how can you tell people don't use this yet you are role models and are saying this word like it has no meaning or offense to it? I will never forget when a fellow classmate a few years back reported my teacher for saying "a chink in the wall" because they said it was racist yet the book I don't remember what book has it written in it. I don't think that we as homosexuals should make a mockery out if our selves then ask the rest of the world to hear us out and to take us seriously if we don't. It's hypocritical of us. If we truly want to be treated as equals as have our voices heard lets not make jokes about our selves and make people laugh at us or say "wow that's so gay" ok not offended by people saying "that's so gay" but it really does piss me off because they use it like gay is now a word that means stupid, retarded, fucked up, shity and it is losing its meaning with people. Gay shouldn't mean something hate full or disgusting it stupid it should mean a sexuality.
To some of us it is :icon_wink Any stranger can joke about my sexuality, I don`t mind. Sometimes I even find it funny. But it also depends on the intention behind the joke. There`s a difference between a joke, and a stab meant to actually hurt sometimes. Sure, the line separating these can at times be blurry, but mostly I see a difference in innocent joking that could just as well be reversed and tweaked to go the other way, or a more serious inappropriate joke. You don`t joke about rape, someone dying, or similar topics. But say for example; "what`s the similarity between a goat and a lesbian? They both munch on grass". Something like that I am totally fine with. If it sounds weird it`s because I translated it from Norwegian. It was some joke I got from some guy once. He thought I`d be embarrased or get cranky. It didn`t phase me :lol:
That's true. *Not saying that those part that are not bold are not true, I was just trying to emphasize. * The joke does not really sound weird. It cracked me, and made me visualize someone in my head munching on someone's grass. At first, I was like,"Eh? A lesbian munches on a grass?" Then I got it. :lol: :lol:
