Choice vs. No Choice

That would be my point.:lol:

 

well ansering to question
then

its not a choice

 

Things that i'm going to add:

-Orientation is not a choice, sexual practises are.
-Not everyone is bisexual.
-Bisexuality exists.

Yes everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it just makes you inconsiderate if your opinions are hurtful to others and you're going to say things that imply that bisexuality isn't real.

 

Hahahahaha

Hahahahaha

Yeah, yeah, sexuality is totally a choice. See, one day, I woke up and decided I needed to do something to justify my martyr complex. You see, I got along a little too great with my extended family, who were kind of cramping my style, so I decided hey! What can I do to make them think I'm spitting on them, their way of life, and their ideals? Sure, sure, I could shave my head, get some tattoos, and decide I want to strip naked and live in a love commune, but that simply isn't going far enough! No, no, I needed to take up Lesbianity.

But even that, my friends, was too simple. Lesbians have a community! I might have somewhere where I felt accepted! That's no good, I need some serious hate hurled my way to feed my enormous sense of righteous indignation. I mean, if I have a place to go and gripe when I overhear strangers telling me that, "those ho-mo-sekshuls are all just sick, sick people, lemme tell you, but they'll face Judgment and be sorry one day," I am not going to be reaching my FULL RAGE POTENTIAL.

So I decided to pepper in just enough attraction to men that even some lesbians wouldn't want to touch me! Yeah, that's the ticket! Now straight and gay people don't like me! Awesome! And not just that, they don't trust my decision! "But you prefer women, right? That just makes you a dyed-in-the-wool lesbian, right?" Aha! I sure do love having to explain my nuanced views on my own sexuality, OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Flippin' sweet, the Ol' Rage Furnace will be a-burnin' bright tonight. S'mores, anyone? I use it to make hot chocolate, too. We can have a campout of hate! Bring your own throat lozenges, because the Scream-Along usually gets pretty intense!

I mean, I just sort of assumed the entire LGBT community operated under the same principles. What's this faff about being born with it? Pfft. Weirdos.

Something I really hope I don't have to add, but YES THIS IS SARCASM.

 

LOL! Read my signature! That's how I really feel!
Did I CHOOSE to be gay? Nope! Do I think I was BORN gay? Absolutely!

 

I think it's important to make the distinction between what is a choice and what is not. I don't think it's a choice to be gay/straight/bi/trans/etc. You CAN choose how you act, though.

So while I can't choose what gives me an erection, I can choose to think about the things that turn me on. The thought of women doesn't arouse me, even if I want to or try to. The thought of some men will arouse me, and I can choose to ignore those feelings or try to avoid having those thoughts, or even date men who I find attractive and find me attractive back.

 

Ah indeed you are, but when you post your opinion on a website, in class, or on TV your going to get a lot of feed back on what other people think of your opinion.

And on that note when someone says your wrong don't listen, unless your trying to prove a point or something cause thats different. If you just stating your opinion, it can't be wrong because it's YOUR OPINION , opinions are not facts, people can say they disagree with your opinion but thats different, someone can't say my opinion is wrong because they are not me, and my opinion is my own

ah free speech...i both love and hate it

 

Ghost Dog? You Rock! LOL!

 

I don't think the question is as simplistic as people are treating it as.

I think there's probably a lot of truth in the statement "everyone's bisexual to some degree." If you think about, most things in nature don't exist in just binary opposition with no grey area... most things follow some kind of normal curve. So while I wouldn't say there aren't people who are ONLY attracted to the same or opposite gender, I think the fact that we generally lump others (and ourselves) into 2 or 3 groupings is more a social thing based on our desire to simplify the world into black and white.

My personal theory is that a lot more gay guys are actually bisexual than would ever admit it. There just seems to be something about male culture/masculinity that really frowns on being "inbetween" (i.e. bi). So you hear way more about women having partners of different genders than you do guys, leading to the generalisation that women seem better able to handle sexuality as a more fluid thing than a rigidly fixed identity that is genetically (or effectively genetically) predetermined. But what I really think is going is that guys have a more urgent desire to "know what they are" and for that to be either straight or gay, not something that straddles the line and might even shift from situation to situation.

As for the choice aspect, well, if I'm right about the above, then "straight" guys and "gay" guys are choosing (however subconsciously) to ignore their attraction to the same (or "opposite") gender.

And as for choice not being a choice if you don't remember it/aren't aware of it, that's just garbage! People make subconscious choices ALL THE TIME that they're not consciously aware of. Saying that a choice isn't a choice unless you're fully aware of it is just like... well, ridiculous.

Now whether you think choosing to ignore attraction makes sexuality a choice is another question, of course. You could argue that since the attraction is still there/still happens, it's not something one chooses. But it really isn't as simple as "who would choose to be gay?"--although that is definitely a good argument, especially if debating with people who aren't super-well versed in the all the complexities of sexual desire and behaviour.

For another spin on "choice," I've lost track of how many times people have told me they didn't initially like the taste of beer but they "developed a taste for it." So I think that kinda blows a hole in the entire "do I choose to like chocolate ice cream?" argument. As silly as it might seem to equate sexual orientation to what ice cream flavours we like, if people can develop tastes for different foods and drinks, if they can "learn" to "appreciate" certain tastes and stuff, is it that weird to think the same thing can come into play about sexual desires and attractions? I'm not saying it's necessarily as simple as deciding "I like breasts" in a kind of flipping a switch fashion, but I don't think our sexual desires are as genetically hardwired as we might like to think.

For instance, every now and then I find myself noticing a women's breasts. I always find this kinda embarrassing because I'm pretty damn gay. I'm not going to be all "I'm 120% pure gay women are totally invisible to me" but I've never had a relationship with a woman and fantasizing about women just really does not do it for me.

So why, exactly, do I sometimes notice sexual features about women? I would hazard a guess it's because all the media I consume (and I watch a LOT of movies and TV) is explicitly and implicitly telling me that as a guy, I should be aware of things like women's breasts. Hyper-aware, even. And while I don't think TV or movies made me gay, or that they could turn me "straight," I do think they have an impact on me and on everyone else exposed to them, to a greater or lesser degree. And that's not even going into how forces like the media shape our appreciation of or distaste for certain racial features, body types, heights, etc. We might not be total play-doh people who can be shaped any which way someone wants but neither are we immutable statues of marble who just don't shift form at all.

Yeah, anyway, at this point in my life, I'm more likely to distrust someone who says they're 100% pure gay (or straight) than I am someone who says they're bi. Unless it's obviously a "bi now, gay later" transition phase for someone who is newly out, which I have to say must be really annoying for all the actual bi people out there who then get accused of being indecisive fencesitters.

 

Oh right! The original question/statement/message!

*grin*

Your friend doesn't make much sense because if you can turn it on or off, and he wants to be bi, what's stopping him? Why is he choosing to be straight?

Sounds like he needs a combination of alcohol (or other disinhibitors) plus some cute boys. :icon_twis Then you can see how long he holds to his "choice" to be straight.

 

It doesn't really matter does it. Scientists could prove emphatically that being gay has a biological basis, and people would still continue to piss and moan about how wrong it it is.

 

^ It probably takes a lot of willpower to imagine your partner to be the same sex as you.

I don't think people are trying to say we are special. Its just why would anyone choose to be discriminated against if it were a choice. We can't choose our orientation, likewise those who are the targets of racial-bias, their race.

 

It sounds like he's starting the minority pity fest. I cannot stand it when people start that "I have it worse" "No I do!"

 

I... don't think anyone is claiming that hate crimes and discrimination make us special. Just because it sucks to be a racial minority or a religious minority, doesn't mean it doesn't also suck to be in a minority because of your sexual orientation.

I don't know if that's your point, or your friend's point, but either way. What are we supposed to say, here? "You're right! Let's stop talking about how nobody would choose to be gay with all the discrimination out there, and start talking about how much it sucks that racial hate crimes are so prevalent!" It does suck. I absolutely hate that racial and religious hate crime exists. I wish it didn't. That doesn't mean we aren't justified in griping about it happening to us, too.

God forbid we look at just one element of injustice that exists in the world, especially when it's the one most relevant to the audience of this forum! A discussion about one group's disadvantage does not need to turn into a discussion about everyone's disadvantages. We know other people have it rough too. We know.

And co-opting a discussion like that is incredibly irritating. When you're used to society ignoring your worldview, and you're in a space where you can discuss it with others, people coming along and saying, "No, actually, it's STILL not about you guys! Let's make it about other people!" isn't going to be met with anything but annoyance at best.

 

I'm sorry I don't necessarily agree with you on this! It's also interesting because I've heard people say the opposite - that most bisexual women end up with men.

Whether or not a bisexual person ends up with someone of the same or opposite sex doesn't change their orientation - which is an ability to fall in love with and have a life-long relationship with either sex.

"Passing through" bisexuality on the way to realising that you're fully gay is something else.

But as for the question - choice or no choice? I didn't choose - I realised.

 

I know this isn't the question here but I'd also like to say - whether or not it's a choice is irrelvant to absolutely everything in life. Whether or not you're born with it or your environmental factors bring it about or whether you can choose it or control it has nothing to do with whether it's OK or not - homosexuality is OK because it harms no one.

 

I disagree. Perhaps when you're young you can choose to like girls or guys, but you're still innately going to be straight gay or bi. Me I'm gay, but up until about Grade 10 I chose to like girls because I thought that if I was gay...I was completely in the wrong. But none the less, it was a fact I always have been gay, I just chose to like the opposite sex but it was more me forcing myself to like them not actually saying I "liked" them in THAT way. I just chose to date them. Sorry if I'm being confusing, I'm just saying there is no real choice, it's who you are, simple as that.

 

unless u come to a point in ur life where u actually choose to like either boys or girls, then it is definately not a choice, its a perfetly natural thing, its like love, u dont choose who u fall in love with, its just happens.

 

Precisely.