I'm not as confident, but maybe that is just down to my area. Here "Make Britain British" and "Leave the EU" flags and stickers are everywhere, and the trip to the polling office felt like attending a EDL rally (stereotyping I know, but I'm, guessing most of the shirtless skinheads with England tattoos staggering in drunk at 3pm from Wetherspoons going in aren't going to be that pro-immigration or making a balanced decision!). I think it'll be close but I'm guessing a Leave by a small margin unfortunately. I think its because we would have to renegotiate many trade deals, and the uncertainty of it all would effect the economy and trade (with businesses trying to stabilise from the shocks rather than grow). Just look at how the stock and housing market have already been affected by the mere whiff of a Brexit. Absolutely. Brexit = bye bye Scotland within the next 10 years I reckon. Which means England, Wales and NI alone in the world. Not the brightest of prospects. Reduced trade and no oil wealth to rely on as a foundation for growth. ---------- Post added 23rd Jun 2016 at 10:00 AM ---------- Agreed, I don't think I've been swayed at all by either sides efforts, the information was either lacking or downright misleading. Yes, unfortunately I'm sure the satisfaction of saying "I told you so" to any Leave voters will be quickly outweighed by the realisation of my house probably losing £10,000-20,000 value in the next few years. Thankfully I'd manage to avoid negative equity (I'd just be out of pocket), millions of other households won't be so lucky and will be trapped in homes they cannot move from, or facing the prospect of repossession and further loss if they aren't careful. ---------- Post added 23rd Jun 2016 at 10:04 AM ---------- I think I'm going to have to do the usual anxiety trick - putting a bet on Leave so worst case scenario at least I have something to be cheery about tomorrow!
I'm going to pull a reverse John Oliver and be an American sticking my fat nose in British business and politics, but I think a lot of the reasoning behind Britain leaving the EU would be to prevent refugees from Syria from getting in and promoting the forced Islamification of an otherwise non-Muslim country. Personally, I'm for Britain leaving the EU for this reason because it directly impacts my country, I don't want second and third generation radicalized Muslims being planted in my country, forcing me to convert to Islam under the threat of death. That's what this is all about. The more Syrian refugees that are allowed into countries like Britain without background checks, the more chances you'll have of second and third generations (we're talking years down the road, but still) of radicalized Muslims, just like the shooter at the Orlando club who'll want to make Islam the state religion and force everybody to convert to it under the threat of "join or die."
Pro Brexit. We are losing too much sovereignty to the EU and the administrative costs of the EU are HUGE (billions) while on the other hand, the EU member states aren't even capable of formulating a joint foreign policy. Also, our European cultures and economies are too different, to make them one. We are not a USA. After the Brexit a Nexit (Netherlands), please.
Vote Leave. It's our chance to get our country back from the undemocratic gravy train which is the EU. I'm not a European, I'm an Englishman and a Brit. Nobody can tell me otherwise.
Exactly. I'm ok with helping Syrian refugees, we must. But please in a controlled matter and not simply opening the borders as has happened now. This for both security and financial reasons. The security reasons you already pointed out. One cannot generalise about muslems, but at the same time we cannot deny any longer that we are having big problems with big groups of muslems in our Western societies. Of course I am aiming at these groups of radical muslems who are segregating themselves from society and who are raising their children in an ideology of muslem superiority. Financially, it is ridiculous how much money is spent on refugees, if in a country like mine, the Netherlands, people even can't always get the needed help when they are terminally ill. Leave alone the old people who can't properly care for themselves anymore. I'm for helping other people, but not at the cost of our own people. Mrs Merkel, the head of the German government welcomed a million or more refugees into her country which will cost 60 billion euros between now and 2020. Now these refugees have to stay in Germany, but as soon as they have European papers, say in a year or five, other European countries cannot refuse them at the borders and I think that's really ridiculous. The Germans must decide for themselves. If they want to receive so many islamic, anti-gay refugees in their country, they must put up with them themselves and not shove it down the throat of other European nations.
I see Benway is still being racist about the whole refugee thing. ' There's approx 1.5 billion muslims in the world and out of those 1.5 billion, about 0,003% of them are radicals. Does it seem fair to judge the rest so harshly due to that 0,003%? No, of course not, but fuck it--let's be racist. It's also safe to assume that all crimes are performed by black people, except those that are around water, since they can not swim; also, all scandinavians wield battle axes and ride on polar bears to get to work. The people in ISIS aren't even actual muslims. They say they are, but when you don't follow the actual muslim creed, I don't care what you say are, but you're not muslim. It's not like people are going to stop coming to the UK if you exit the EU anyways. Yeah, sure, you can implement stricter rules, but then trade partners might get their feathers rustled. Speaking of which, it's very nice to be able to buy things from the UK and not get any extra taxes and a lot of people agree with that, whether they be private people or companies, but if you're not part of the EU, I'd much rather buy it from another country where I don't have to pay extra due to tax and so would pretty much everybody else. It'll also be a bit difficult to do trading with you guys when you don't follow those EU regulations that you keep complaining about and if you want any trade at all, you're gonna have to abide by them regardless, even if it's not enforced by your own country. It all comes down to nationalism, really, whatever shape or form it takes, that's something that's common with pretty much every brexit supporter I've seen. If it's not "but the muslims... we don't want them" then it's something like this: Nationalism is ugly, no matter what form it takes because it never makes any fucking sense; it's stupid and nothing good ever comes from it. Basically the whole world with any grasp on the situation are just seeing the UK as a whining child throwing a tantrum and flailing its arms around because it's not getting what it wants. So here's my message to the UK as a nation, or at least the 44 something percent that supports brexit: grow the fuck up and get some goddamn perspective. That's it, I'm not going to involve myself any more in this discussion because I truly think that it's one of the dumbest political situations I've ever seen. This year is a fucking joke in politics and has made me completely lose faith in humanity as a species, it really has.
I "get" the fear of reversing our secular society and the threat of radical Islam, I really do. As a gay person particularly, the threat is real. However I don't see what this has to do with the EU. I think regardless of whether we are in or out: 1. We will be having refugees and asylum seekers anyway (as refugees flock to safe and secure countries) 2. Most asylum seekers are just seeking refuge and we have the opportunity to welcome, embrace and educate ("rehabilitate" if you want) them to fit better into society. 3. Even if we leave I think we have an obligation to take refugees of war. thinking back to the Holocaust, the idea of the world doing nothing for so long is harrowing. We cannot let this happen again. 4. I think if refugees were shared proportionally there wouldn't be such an issue - the issue is caused by state being anti-refugee and playing hot potato with human lives. Of course these people are not going to integrate into Western life if we dehumanise them and shove them from state to state. Its a cost, yes, but I do think there are benefits here. Its much like a worker's trade union - yes they cost money to belong to, but there is safety and power in numbers. Plus I think Britain has benefited from this ever so slight lack of sovereignty, as its given us an outsider perspective at times when we've needed it. See my earlier comment about the HRA and gay people getting additional support. Additionally look at the transformation of Liverpool and cities like it - yes you can trace the funds back to UK contributions - but the UK had left Liverpool destitute for years (due to the Governments London-centrism) and simply could not be arsed to act. It took the EU stepping in to trigger regeneration.
There is nothing wrong with a healthy portion of nationalism. On the contrary, it's dangerous to deny all forms of nationalism and to try and eradicate them. It just doesn't work. They tried that in the Soviet-Union, and in Yugoslavia. And we all know the outcome. It's time for us Europeans to say good-bye to the EU and rebuild our nation-states. We are no United States of Europe and we will never be. Our states can work together without the European Union. It started with the European Economic Community (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community) and that organisation was more than enough for European collaboration. If you try to unify people and countries with different cultures, they are bound to fall apart again, in the worst case by war. And that is not an unthinkable scenario if technocratic politicians don't pay attention to the people's wishes. ---------- Post added 23rd Jun 2016 at 03:33 PM ---------- 1. But now, with the EU and with open borders, we have much more refugees. They even send boats to pick them up! 2. Educate? Rehabilitate? You are very naive. Of course, there are progressive muslims who will fit into society, but most of these refugees are coming from countries and cultures that are simply not compatible with Western cultures in many domains. You can't close your eyes for it. In islam homosexuality is a big sin and most muslims won't tolerate it, leave alone accept it. You can't come and impose your "superior" Western views on them. For many of them, you're merely a kafir, a non-believer, a lower being. In refugee homes, gay refugees are not safe and reports of women getting raped are abundant. I'm sorry, but I don't want to welcome such people. 3. Why would refugees of war have more rights? What about all those other people who are dying worldwide because they have not enough food to eat or live in bad conditions? Why call them economic refugees and send them back? Why allow masses of people who are not compatible with our society? 4. The truth is that many of these people won't integrate into Western societies for many generations to come and we are creating HUGE problems by receiving them without restrictions. The big problem is not that we are temporarily giving them a safe haven, no the problem is that we won't send them back as soon as there is peace again in their countries, even if that's after a considerable time. In general, my opinion is that refugees should go back to their home country even if that is possible only 10 or more years later. If we send them back as soon as the situation allows it, I have no problem whatsoever with receiving refugees with certain limits (as said, we can solve all suffering in the world).
Actually, polls show more Muslims are redicalized or have radical beliefs. In many countries with a majority Muslim, you'll find most of them support death penalty for people who leave the Muslim faith.
Presented without comment - https://mobile.twitter.com/lindsaylohan/status/746129036032745472?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
This website has live results coming in. As of right now, the remain campaign is leading by a very very small margin, but it's been a leave lead for most of the time. It's a very close race. Early EU referendum results in UK suggest tight race - BBC News Since you're in Quebec, there should be final results around 2 AM for your time.
Yeah, at the moment it's going back and forth. It's interesting to see that some of the areas that have benefited from EU funds for economic and infrastructure development in then past, and perhaps currently, are voting to leave the EU.
Leave is over 300,000 votes ahead with more than half of overall votes announced. Very good for Farage and the leave camp.
