Real issue behind school shootings and gun control

I think you've got a real problem with how easy it is to obtain and keep a firearm over there. The question that should have been asked post Columbine is "how did those two get their hands on that kind of arsenal and how can we stop that happening again?" Instead certain influential people and groups chose to ignore that and frame it as a debate over whether Doom or Marilyn Manson were to blame.

Keeps happening too. You're too frightened to have that debate for reasons I'm not sure of.

 

I completely agree with you, and due to my own dark past, I have also decided to make creating a better world, one of my most important life goals. Actually, it's the only reason why im still here today, but there are two things I need to add, combined with what you said.

1. People who do this are bullied and mentally ill, but I feel it necessary to point out that not all mentally ill people are messed up in the head like that. Out of the mentally ill people who do such horrendous things, the majority of mentally ill people do not act that way, and they get bullied for their mental illness and are treated by others like they are just like the people who snap and kill people. I think while it is essential to be aware of the reasons why people do such horrible things, I think we must be very careful not to classify all mentally ill people as being like that. I went through hell for most of my life, so maybe that is why I'm able to see so well, that the people who do these horrible things are victims their selves. It is essential to do everything possible to save both the people running from the gunman/gunwoman as well as the gunman/gunwoman themselves.

2. I know that the views of guns vary from person to person, and im not trying to start a debate, but even though im for stricter gun laws, if nothing else, I see no reason why civilians should have access to high powered assault rifles or other over powered guns, like the ones that shoot multiple rounds per second. Why not at the very least limit ourselves to hand guns, hunting rifles, and perhaps shotguns. There is no need for automatic weapons in the hands of civilians. If you want to go to war, then join the army and make a difference. I see no reason why we would need anything other than the three types of guns listed to defend ourselves. In Australia and Japan, they have a ban on guns, where only the army has guns. Im not sure of the statistics in Japan, but in Australia, they use to have a huge mass shooting problem and many gun related killings. After putting up the ban on guns, all mass shooting problems and gun related incidents dropped to zero. I know that there are people who are really for guns, and I understand your opinions, but at least let's get rid of the automatic weapons and such. That is just ridiculous, and again, let's not turn this into a huge debate about the second amendment. Im just stating my opinion and trying to create a better and safer world for all. At the end of the day, isn't that suppose to be the ultimate goal?

By the way, after checking the other posts, I see that as expected there is already a debate on gun control, but let's try to remember what this post is actually about. And again, leave me out of the gun debate. I said all I needed to say on that, and I already heard all the pro gun arguments millions of times and considered them, but I still stand by my stance on gun control.

 

I actually see what Shadowspirit is saying. And I have to agree. I shouldn't have generalized when I said "Let's not have mentally ill people have guns", but rather look into which mental illnesses have potential for that and not have those diagnosed with those illnesses have guns.

 

I find it difficult to take anyone seriously who says that guns aren't the problem with school shootings. They're not a cause, but they certainly enable it. Countries with strict laws on guns have far fewer shootings, and to ignore the role of guns in shootings is to bury your head in the sand like a deluded ostrich. Guns are not the problem by themselves, but that doesn't mean that they're not the worst part in enabling the massacres.

There's a massive education problem, mostly related to the quality of the school. Prestigious schools don't seem to have the same sort of massacres that mediocre ones do. And most of the perpetrators are white boys/men, which makes it clear there's a big social issue here. To say that mental illness is the big or only issue is also rather silly. To pretend there isn't a massive cultural issue with white boys is to make a blatant lie, and coupled with mental instability and bullying/abuse/neglect, they are the largest perpetrators. Schools need to provide extensive care for the mental well-being of their students, because as far as I've noticed, shootings seem like an extreme demand for attention after being ignored for so long.

Our culture feeds young white men with images of brave, loved, brilliant white men being violent and being loved for it. I can't twist logic around so much to pretend that the "ideal" of what someone should be doesn't play its part. With the reality of being neglected and unloved, but the expectation of the movie-star white men, some white boys feel that they've been cheated of their rightful place. That's mostly a personal observation, but I can't help but feel it's related (the boys I've known with that sort of issue tend to fit the profile of the school shooters in America).

There's no single issue, and guns are certainly not the root cause. But that doesn't change that they are the worst factor in making these attacks so much more lethal. Schools need to take far more care of their students, but guns still need to be treated as violent weapons, which a lot of Americans don't seem to do. Even in Finland, with a brilliant education system, school shootings are relatively common. Gun control in Finland is extraordinarily lax, but a lot of the cultural issues of American school shootings are absent, which indicates that guns are a big part of the problem.

I find it completely idiotic to separate gun laws with school shootings as if there's no relation.

 

Mental illness is a big part of the problem. Mental health care in the states is laughable. Do you know what the care generally comprises of?

Going to your general practitioner and stating that you feel depressed. You'll be asked a small amount of questions and then given a prescription for anti-depressants. If they don't work, you go back and get put on another.

You're rarely referred to someone that specializes in mental health, and when you are, it's absurdly expensive. Back when I was going, the insurance would pay 80% up until about $600. After that point, they'd only pay for 20% of it, leaving me to foot the rest of the bill. I managed four or five sessions before I started having to pay myself, at that point I quit going for unrelated reasons.

 

Yeah, but there's a huge difference between America and other countries with strict gun laws. Even if America completely banned guns right now, there are a plethora of guns in circulation in this country; more guns than people. The countries with low gun crime don't have anywhere near the number of guns in circulation as America. So completely banning guns is not going to significantly reduce gun violence in America. Period. The millions of guns already in the hands of people aren't just going to magically disappear with stricter laws. Chicago is a good example. They've got some pretty strict laws, but gun violence is still high because there are so many in circulation. However, that doesn't mean there shouldn't at least be reasonable gun laws in place, like background checks on all gun sales, and certain bans on military style weapons.

As for school shootings, Sandy Hook was actually a really good school. There may be far less gun crimes at good schools, but that doesn't mean they can't happen in good schools. In terms of overall gun crime, African Americans are just as bad as whites in this country. It really isn't about race; it's about the massive circulation of guns in this country and how easy it is to obtain one.

 

I think the problem is that any and all attempts to close the loopholes that make it easier for the deranged lunatic to obtain the gun are instantly shot down as "attacks on the Second Amendment."

The right's answer to keeping children safe in schools is to have Christian education and force students to pray in school.

 

Both mental health and gun regulations play a big part of preventing shootings not just at schools but everywhere in general. Gun regulations would be a simple way to help prevent shooting from happening. Nobody needs a 50+ Magazine clip anyways. Those are designed specifically for killing people. If you need 50+ shots to hunt, you need to find a better hobby that you're good at. "Oh no I have to take five extra seconds to reload a gun because this regulations save lives. F*@k those libs taking away my rights." lol really. That and stopping people from getting guns in the first place.

I do feel that the United States doesn't seem to take mental, emotional, and physical health very seriously. If they actually tried to help those in need, there would be less shootings.

To all those who say things like "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Last time I checked, it's a lot harder to kill a bunch of people with your bare hands than it is to use a gun and just kill everyone in a room. Also look at countries that have banned guns (not that i'm suggesting that). A lot of them have very low gun violence rates and the only people that were murdered with a gun, were part of a gang).

 

^^^

 

I don't think it's only mental health that's the problem here. Some school shooters kill a whole bunch of people at a school and they aren't mentally ill and/or bullied in life. Obama's proposed gun control law not only would have added restrictions to buying guns, but also would have expanded mental health care.

I believe that the solution would be to tighten gun laws while expanding mental health care. In fact, in the process of buying a gun, there would be a mental health screening. Gun laws would have made the screenings more intensive. Shooters have used an AR-15 and many assault weapons to kill many people, and the question is,"Why would they even have those guns in the first place?" If we limited the variety of guns to bolt-action firearms, or 5-round magazines, then the shootings wouldn't be so deadly.

 

I agree with you on the basis that unstable folks shouldn't have access to firearms. Although I take it as an affront that Christian schooling is bad. I attended 13 years of said schooling. I believe it was good for me as I never got shot or was subjected to violence.

I also own many firearms for different purposes, that I passed a background check for. I have no problems with background and mental health verification, I have a problem with restrictive beurocracy that's only based on emotion.

Most of these school shooters didn't get the guns legally, and that begs the question of whether there should be stricter standards with the guns, not just in the purchase and ownership, but in the functionality of said item.

 

That would knock out the vast majority of hunting rifles as well as shotguns and pistols.

 

That should be taken for granted.

Most mass shootings are done with weapons obtained legally; less than a quarter are illegal. That obviously means there are far too lenient gun regulations.

It's common sense to make the purchase of a gun hard. Background and mental checks are necessary, but there need to be criteria for the purchase of a gun. If someone has to have a necessary purpose for a gun, it'll reduce the ownership of guns.

 

My school had a scare earlier in the year, where multiple weapons were brought to the middle school campus (no one was injured).

 

Is anything THE cause? I find it more likely that these people each have their own set of factors that drive them to violence, and that, while there are several factors that pop up often, there is no single factor or factors that drive most mass murderers. For example, bullying is certainly often a cause. However, the number of heavily bullied murderers is not an overwhelming majority. Same with mental illness, and violent forms of entertainment, and poverty, and host of other causes. Americans in general are not defined by heavily similar backgrounds. Why would our killers be?

 

^ a) If guns are more difficult to get, then it's far less likely that someone will have a father with a gun, and b) the US Constitution is not a valid argument; it's circular reasoning to justify the law using the law as the reason.

In Australia, when Howard's government introduced gun control, there were mass confiscations as new regulations were put in place, and now gun crime is a lot lower, even though we do still have over three million guns in Australia.