Yeah this has been both an enlightening and difficult process for me, overall it’s been a struggle. Through therapy and self reflection certain things from adolescence have cropped up that now point to a struggle or confusion over my sexuality for a longer time than I originally thought. I fell into addiction at an early age and obviously on some level was repressing certain things, even if I wasn’t consciously aware of it. When I first came to EC there were definitely some anomalies and a preference for trans pornography that definitely pointed to me not being entirely “straight.” However, over this past year I definitely seem to be trending in a direction that points to me definitely being queer but more so gay. For whatever reason, there still seems to be this disconnect between thoughts, feelings, and arousal. It’s obvious that a certain level of denial and bargaining are at play. On another level there’s confusion. But I think a lot of it comes down to conditioning.
detroitlouisred.....There is a post called "The Stages of Grief" it may be helpful to you. Some parts might not fit, but others could...I hope this helps. .....David Stage One: Denial This first stage happens immediately. People can express themselves as "shocked." "I had no idea..." "This can't be." Yourself: "I'm not really gay." "I don't dislike girls." "I've never been with a guy." "I don't think I'm gay." "I will feel straight if I have sex with a girl." "I've never had sex with a guy, therefore, I'm not technically gay." Parent: "No you're not." "No one in the family is gay, and you're not either." "You don't act gay." "You don't know what you're feeling." "Have sex with a girl and you won't feel that way anymore." "You're confused." "You need therapy." Wife: "You're not the man I married." "You're stressed/tired/angry." "You're in mid-life crisis." "You're too manly to be gay." "Let's get therapy; I know you're not gay." "You have sex with me, thus, you're not really gay." Stage Two: Anger The second stage is a downer for those coming out. Once the trauma of coming out is over, and you think the coast is clear, the parent/wife enters the anger stage. How much anger, when they enter, and when they get over this stage is dependent of many factors. Yourself: "I hate myself." "I hate being gay." "I hate gays." "Why the fuck me?" "What did I do to deserve these feelings?" "Jesus! Why can't I love her?" "I want to be like X!!!" "I'm such a loser." Parents: "You're not sleeping with X are you?" "Don't you know there are dangerous diseases out there?" "Can't you just be normal?" "For God's sake, don't tell anyone else!" "Why did you tell me that?" "Don't come crying to me when you're life gets screwed up!" "Why didn't you tell me this before?" "Didn't you trust me until now?" "Would you have EVER told me this? (if outed)" Wife: "Why did you marry me?" "You lied to me!" "Why did you fool me?" "What did I do to deserve this!?" "You'll pay for this, mister!" "So, are you sleeping with X,Y, and Z?" "Who else knows?! Am I the laughing stock of town?" "You asshole." "Fuck you - oh no, you'd like that, wouldn't you?" "Couldn't you have figured this out before NOW?" Stage Three: Bargaining Bargaining is usually a welcomed respite from the Anger Stage. But, it can be equally annoying. Self: "I bet if I have sex with a girl, I'll find out I'm hetero." "Maybe I can get married, and have a fuck-buddy on the side that no one knows about but me. What would be the harm in that?" "If I don't tell anyone, then it's not really real." "God, if I promise to be good, will you make me straight?" "God, please make me straight. I'll do anything." "I bet if I lose weight and tone up, I'll be more attractive to girls and then I won't like guys." "I bet this will pass when I'm 20, no 30, maybe when I'm 40?" Parents: "Let me set you up with X. If you only had a girlfriend, you'd forget about guys." "God, I'll do anything if you make him straight." "I"ll buy you a car if you don't date boys." "Maybe we were too strict. If we relax our rules, will it make you feel more comfortable and feel like dating girls?" "I bet if you had more confidence in yourself, you'd feel more comfortable with girls. I'll set you up with a counselor/prostitute/assertiveness training class." Wife: "I"ll forgive you if you don't divorce me." "You can have your discrete fun on the side as long as it's safe and you don't leave me." "Look, honey, I bought this new lingerie. Isn't it sexy?" "If I lost weight/had a face lift/tummy tuck would you find me sexy again?" "Dear God, get him through this midlife crisis. I'll do anything." "We can have separate bedrooms and separate lives, just don't leave me alone." Stage Four: Depression This stage occurs when the preceding stages did not alleviate the grief, and the loss is not yet accepted. It is the brain's last-ditch attempt at not accepting the truth. Self: "I'm screwed." "I hate myself." "I'm not good at anything. I can't even make a baby." "Why am I here? What's the purpose of my life?" "My future is empty and hopeless." "I can't compete in the cut-throat gay world, I'm just not up for it." "I've ruined everyone's life around me, including my own." "I know I am going to burn in hell." "I want to die." Parents: "He's hell-bent on being gay. I'm helpless." "I guess if he wants to ruin his life and make me miserable, he's going to." "I give up." "I am so sad that I can not make him straight or be interested in girls." "I don't know what else I can say or do." "Why did I have children? Such heartache." "I can't imagine a future without grandchildren. What's the point of living?" "I thought I did better than that. Where did I go wrong?" Wife: "My life is over." "I will never love again." "I will never trust again." "How on earth will I cope?" "My future is empty." "I now feel nothing - for anyone." "I want to die." Stage Five: Acceptance At long last, we reach the final stage of acceptance. If achieved, depression lifts and anger subsides. This doesn't mean that we forget the sadness and anger, it means we don't feel it anymore. Self: "I'm gay." "I'm gay, and that's fine. Now what?" "I'm proud of who I am and the person I've become." "It's alright not to marry and have kids. I can contribute to society anyway - in other ways." "I am more than gay. My sexuality does not define me. I am 3-dimensional and have interests." "It's time to find a boyfriend." "It's time to get on with life." Parent: "OK, he's gay. I hope he finds someone who makes him happy,." "Have you found a boyfriend yet?" "How are you doing - really?" "I love you." "Be sure to tell X [boyfriend] hi for me." "I want you and X to come for dinner." "Tell me all about him." "I'm so proud of you." "I'm so happy for you." "You know what? His being gay isn't that bad. It's not like he's a murderer or dying or anything. Now, THAT would be tragic." Wife: "He's gay, but he's still a good person/father." "I need to let go." "I need to have a life." "Life goes on." "It's OK, we'll get through this together." "This is not a reflection on me - this is his issue." "That's the way he is; he needs to be happy." "I wish he'd figured this out before we got married, but sometimes it doesn't happen that way." "OK, my husband is gay. That's a reality. Now, what do I do?" Finally... One thing to remember - or recognize - is that frequently we come out to others when we have gotten to Stage 5: Acceptance, ourselves. And, sometimes this has taken us years to do. Thus, we can't be impatient with those closest to us who just found out. It would be great if we could rush them through to the Acceptance stage, but we can't. The best we can do is anticipate these phases and help them adjust to this information, just like we adjusted. Lastly, this isn't advocating coming out. Many men get to the Acceptance stage, and do not share this information with anyone. And, there can be compelling reasons for doing so. Thus, this piece is not meant to get everyone to Stage 5 and then bring as many of your closest people around you through it too. Rather, it's offered as one theoretical perspective on how people deal with what they perceive as a "loss" and if it's helpful in your situation, then it was worth writing down.
I have seen that, thanks. I was actually referencing that in my last post. I’m just in a weird place where it seems so obvious at times but then something as simple as getting aroused by a man doesn’t happen?? In some ways I’ve never felt more in denial, but at the same time there seems to be this massive disconnect, which makes me circle back to this OCD thing. At the end of the day, I don’t think that’s what it is but I can’t explain why I get aroused by people I don’t necessarily feel attracted to and not aroused by people I “feel” attracted to (I mean this in a non-porn sense). It’s just all so confusing and frustrating. I feel so full of shit all the time, as if I know what the answer is but there’s something blocking me from it…
That’s ocd in a nutshell Because this is ocd as you have been told Please please get help for this you can’t dream or which you’re way into being gay anymore than forced reparative therapy can make someone straight. ‘you know anytime you can reset yourself by asking…if a gay guy is ad I don’t get aroused by women but I think I am straight what would I atell him?
I appreciate your input @Searching2022 I have been in therapy and on medication for these issues but alas to little to no change. I don’t mean to sound like a crazy person, although on some level I know I do. As stated in one of my recent posts on here, through therapy and soul searching, certain memories of my past have resurfaced that point to this being more of a life long struggle than some decent into craziness experienced after a failed proposal to my ex. Evidence that I’m gay: I find myself finding men attractive, saying things like “He’s hot” or “He’s cute.” I have weird interactions with men where it seems I’m attracted to them or afraid of being attracted to them. Throughout my life there have been periods where I feel I great desire for anal play while masturbating but after a few times of indulgence I stop for a long time. I don’t know if I actually enjoy it as much as I enjoy the idea of it. My most recent sexual experiences have been with non-op trans women, especially one in particular. There’s been so inconsistencies but generally with the trans women I’ve been with I am very aroused and enjoy performing acts that are of a biological, homosexual nature. Although not physically aroused, as in an erection, I do feel a certain type of mental arousal to gay/homosexual stimuli. My attraction to cisgender women and ability to be aroused by them has disappeared. My attraction to trans women, even the one I’ve been seeing, seems to be dwindling. I am at times physically aroused by trans women (this is outside of porn or sexual explicit material) but I don’t feel attracted to them. However, I think that I more see them as feminine or feminized men and that’s what arouses me, not that they’re women. It also appears as I’m on a sliding scale and being aroused by people who are more androgynous rather than passable trans women. Again, I hate to admit it but sometimes I feel repulsed/ disgusted by her as well as other trans women. Memories of brief experiments with gay erotica/porn during my late teens/ early adulthood have surfaced. It seems I settled on or preferred trans porn. At least that was what my predominant porn choice for well over a decade. A repressed memory from my addiction has resurfaced. In college I was a blackout drinker so I don’t remember the event itself, only the aftermath. Apparently one night while partying I attempted to kiss one of my male friends. Again, I don’t remember the actually event, but now I do remember being chided and begin accused of being gay the next day. I collect books. Over the years I have collected thousands. I have a quite sizable collection of queer and Gay literature. Some of my favorite authors are gay and I have tattoos dedicated to them (I also have tattoos dedicated to straight authors). There have been times when I have gotten physically aroused reading gay literature. Although I’ve dated women throughout my life, beginning in adolescence, there have been periods when I was very absent or not concerned with pursuing them. At the time I would have chalked this up to my addiction or being in a weird place with my on again/off again Ex. During my dating history with women, I never struggled with arousal and frequently initiated sex, but there were many times, more than I’d like to admit when I struggled to achieve orgasm. However, I don’t even remember having to think about men to do so. Anymore, the “relationship” with the trans woman I’ve been seeing seems to cause me more confusion and anguish than it does relief and enjoyment. Sometimes seeing her photo or thinking of her gives me anxiety. Again, I hate to admit it but sometimes I feel repulsed/ disgusted by her as well as other trans women. Not that this really means anything but there are quite a few LGBTQ+ individuals on my mom’s side of the family. Thinking of men isn’t arousing to me but anymore it doesn’t cause me the anxiety it once did not does it feel as anxiety provoking as some of my thoughts about trans women. Every morning I wake up and my first thought is “I’m/ you’re gay.” Although I associate my masturbatory fantasies to trans women, sometimes it’s hard to tell who it is I’m fantasizing about. Sometimes it feels like images of men pop up and I originally thought of these as intrusive thoughts but regardless it makes it really hard to decipher who it is I’m actually thinking about. This is especially true during orgasm. There have been times while being intimate, both sexually and non-sexually, with the trans woman I’ve been seeing when thoughts of men pop into my head while getting aroused or during arousal. Again, at one time I chalked this up to intrusive thoughts, sometimes they definitely were for instance when my gay uncle popped up, but overall I’m not too sure. There are times when my being gay seems to be the only explanation of who I am. There’s almost a sense of relief that comes when not fighting it. Very nondescript or abstract fantasies surrounding gay sex acts can get me aroused. Evidence of me just simply being attracted to trans women, being queer, or having some form of OCD. During my dating history with women, I never struggled with arousal, frequently initiated sex, very much enjoyed and was aroused performing oral. This one doesn’t really count as none of this feels true or is arousing to me anymore. If I get aroused by someone, it’s usually a trans woman, or someone feminine presenting. This arousal generally occurs during non-sexual situations or to non-pornographic material I.e. just seeing someone on a dating app. However, I’ll point out that anymore it’s hardly to the point or full arousal but rather that it’s more arousing than anything else. Even though I find myself finding men attractive, saying things like “He’s hot” or “He’s cute,” I’m oddly never aroused by these men or in these situations. I’ve never gotten an erection from looking at or encountering a masculine, cisgender male. There are a few male individuals in my life who it seems if find attractive, almost to the point of crushing on, but I have never been aroused by them either. I can at times get aroused by the trans woman I’m seeing just by looking at her, holding her hand or hugging her. When I’m calm, generally while trying to sleep, I’ll have these romantic fantasies about the trans woman I’m seeing and they can be extremely physically arousing. I have weird interactions with men where it feels like I’m attracted to them but these are generally extremely uncomfortable and fraught with anxiety. It has been suggested to me that some of my thoughts, feelings and reactions to trans women could essentially be internalized transphobia. When I try to fantasize about men, I do not get sexually aroused. During masturbating, if I try to focus on men, essentially nothing happens. I don’t quite lose arousal, which is generally self stimulated but I’ve never been able to orgasm consciously focusing on men, especially not those who I find to be “attractive.” If I’m getting aroused sexually and a man’s face appears, usually it’s someone I know in real life, it usually kills my arousal. If I’m to be aroused by porn, it’s generally trans porn or someone feminine presenting (not including cis gender women). I know porn is unreliable but still worth mentioning. I’ve definitely experienced intrusive thoughts of a sexual nature that are inappropriate and discomforting, I.e. about family members, people not age appropriate, etc. I’ve have these anxious filled moments when I feel attracted to someone simply because they’re male. Like before I’ve even see their face I’ll feel attracted to them. It’s almost like I’m psyching myself out. I’ve definitely engaged in compulsive checking/ testing with porn, dating apps, photos etc. I pretty much obsess over my sexuality daily, from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. Obviously there are times I’ll be so engaged in something that it’s not on my mind, like at work, but it very quickly returns or is triggered and I’m off to the races again. However, it’s not really a question I’m trying to solve anymore as it feels like I’m obsessing over the fact that I’m gay and trying to prove that I’m not. I think at the end of the day I’m just splitting hairs. Anymore it just feels like I know I’m gay and I’m just fighting it. There are many things that point towards me being gay and in denial. Even the things listed as explanations for why I’m not gay are ultimately still kinda gay, because, not to be disrespectful, but I am largely talking about biological males after all. This is especially true. Seeing as some of the things I mentioned above weren’t happening six months ago let alone over a year ago when this all started. So it seems as though there is an evolution at play here. I can’t say that I know for sure where it’ll end but I’ve definitely got a pretty damn good idea. Even though I am more likely to be aroused by a trans woman, or somebody more feminine, presenting, I think in a way I have habituated this arousal over the years through porn. The odd thing is that is arousal generally comes from non-pornographic material. However, I think it is simply some type of kink. Like the feminization of men is arousing to me, but anymore it seems that’s where it ends, and that a full on relationship with somebody who lives their life as a woman is ultimately in conflict to my nature. On some level I think there is some attraction to femininity but I think I’ve mistaken this attraction to femininity as an attraction to womanhood or to trans women. But honestly I think it’s all bullshit. I think that I am a seriously repressed homosexual who struggles massively from internalized homophobia and whose anxiety is preventing arousal.
Hi I’m new here. Just wanted to say I am the exact same as you. I hyper fixate on arousal, never have been by a man. I also always circle back round to OCD. It’s a rough old cycle, it feels never ending, it’s absolutely draining. I have experienced attraction ( or what at the time felt like attraction) to women my entire life. Would you say you were addicted to porn at any stage? I am still trying to recover from it, relapsed yesterday, as I have watched it non stop since I was 13, using it as a way to check myself when questioning my sexuality.
This I can identify with greatly. However, I have to admit there has been an undercurrent of some level of understanding that I had of my not being totally straight. This was primarily based on my enjoyment of trans pornography. Until recently I never felt attracted to men and have yet to get sexually aroused by one, at least not one that wasn’t feminine presenting. So I do understand this OCD thing because I seem to have the symptoms, some more than others, but in my case, I think there’s more at play. My therapist seems to think that I have genuine feelings for the trans woman I’m seeing and I’m just freaking the f**k out, but again, I think there’s more at play. That’s how it feels at least. when I mention addiction in my posts I’m speaking of addiction to drugs and alcohol. I think that my porn use has perhaps been problematic and has definitely confused me, but as a person who has suffered from addiction to substances, I cannot say that my porn use has had as much of a negative impact or interference in my life that comes with addiction.
