sexual vs. romantic orientation

I know I don't speak for everyone and there are true bisexual people out there -but chips statement was 100% true for me

The above was my pattern, but the thing is you don't realize it until AFTER you realize you're gay.

This is the part that confused me and I think many men. Also with men its easier to simply chase an orgasm by having sex - ejaculating felt good and that was enough with me to rationalize that I was really straight. Never mind I always felt a little revolted by naked women and actual intimacy didn't feel intimate. I wanted to try to please a girlfriend by performing oral sex but I didn't want to naturally do it like I do with oral sex with a man.

Another very confusing thing is being attracted to beautiful women but realizing there is no sexual arousal - I thought "Well this proves I am straight and there's just something wrong with that connection. I mean, I love what she's wearing, how could I be gay! "

This was my experience. Once I allowed myself to imagine being romantic with a man, the efforts to imagine myself with a woman seemed like a useless chore and I realize they were efforts - not natural desires. In my case and I am guessing for many - the confusion is actual romantic feelings vs romantic 'longings' - longing for romanic heterosexual love.

 

There should be a term for this the 'Genie out of the Bottle' effect so many men experienced. I have experienced this myself and read so many posts by gay men who have experienced it, it is shame it hasn't been studied more - but it definitely is a real phenomenon: At some point about questioning and doubting, some experience or revelation causes what is described as a 'damn bursting' or tsunami of emotion and all the sudden the doubts, questions, 'but I look at women' 'but I have sex with women' statements disappear. The other amazing thing is any perceived attraction to women or desire to have sex fades rapidly away to near nothing, some, like myself even realize that we are slightly revolted by the idea of having sex with women. The romantic fantasies and desires for men skyrocket and realizing the intensity of them makes gay men realize they really didn't have romantic feelings for women at all.

 

I thought about this a bit more... The internet is really just someone's opinion anyway...

I know this is subjective...
What if you liked someone but they weren't attractive? They liked them for other attributes. What would that come under?

What if one person was attracted physically but the other not. (Not that anyone would know and differ person to person)

Would that be considered sexual attraction or romantic? Or both?

Can you have chemistry with someone but not find they attractive? Where does sexually vs romantic attraction play into that?

Juts a couple of thoughts...

 

I would say though that for some people not everyone experiences immediate sexual arousal right on first meeting. Being able to imagine being intimate and feeling instantly wet upon encountering someone I don’t think are necessarily the same thing imho. I don’t feel immediately wet when I meet people I find attractive. I feel jittery and nervous and stuff but not necessarily wet. This doesn’t mean I’m not attracted though. I can’t say definitely cause I’ve never had sex but I assume if someone was actually in the act of touching me with the goal to turn me on, then I would get wet as a result of that. But I don’t get wet just from seeing someone attractive in my day to day life.

 

I don’t know if you did so it’s intentionally, but you used the terms “sexual attraction” and “romantic arousal.” Obviously, I understand there are various meanings for each word as well as different ways they might manifest in an individual. But, do you believe there to be a difference between arousal and attraction?

I know this thread is primarily concerned with the notion of a variance who one says they’re sexually attracted to vs. a romantic attraction. It’s kind of hard for me to believe that on some level you can be totally head over heels, romantically in love with someone and not be sexually attracted to them. That doesn’t mean you can’t love them. I love my dad but I’m not sexually attracted to him because it’s a different kind of love.

Anyways, I’m not really trying to make the argument or if someone can or cannot have different romantic and sexual attractions. I’m more curious as to what the differences between arousal and attraction are? I feel as if this might help me on my own personal journey.

I understand that just because a man isnt hard or a women wet when they find someone attractive, it doesn’t mean they’re not attracted. Is it possible to be aroused by something/ someone you’re not really attracted to? Is arousal a reliable indicator of attraction?

Obviously we’re not going to fall in love with everyone or anyone who gets us sexually aroused, but is that arousal a true indication of attraction or simply just a biological response?

 

I think the waters become very murky when we start talking about biological responses and arousal and differentiating between those things imho. Mainly because this can lead to misunderstandings between what is consensual sex and what isn’t. People can physically react to things they aren’t consenting to. So if we’re saying attraction is always equal to arousal I think that’s problematic.

 

I entirely agree with Chip and you. I am very sceptical that someone can have a different romantic orientation from their sexual orientation. Certainly in my case once I really reached acceptance of being gay the two aligned completely.

 

I feel like often people in my experience who are more able to relate to the split attraction model are often some kind of bisexual. I think if someone is inherently predisposed or has the potential to be attracted to multiple genders it can sometimes manifest as feeling different levels of romantic and sexual attraction for those different genders.

 

If we’re using the Kinsey model it makes sense that people who hover somewhere closer to the middle will experience the most variety and nuance in how they feel attraction. For me that prob would include anyone who isn’t a zero (strictly only interested in heterosexual relations) and a 6 (strictly only interested in homosexual relations).

 

I see what you’re saying but I was speaking on the individual basis, as in an individual’s arousal/ attraction by/to another without contact.

People get aroused when they’re alone in bed. People can get aroused by what they see on TV. Even if one is on a street full of people, they could be come aroused and no one would be the wiser. There was nothing in my post about sex or physical contact. I understand where you’re coming from and you’re right, but I think you misunderstood what I was asking or I didn’t articulate it well enough.

I think the question I posed is legitimate and can be discussed and answered without making it about sexual or physical contact, consensual or otherwise.

 

I’m definitely not an expert of course on anything but it’s just something I’ve observed. There is such a range of what can technically be considered bisexuality that this in my brain makes sense.

 

It sounds easier to define of a person isn't focused on one gender/orientation.

I can understand the concept of a bisexual etc being more inclined towards bother gender.
For example
Let's say... you can be attracted to a male but not want to be romantic or vice versa.
Or want to be romantic towards a woman but not sexually.
There can also be different levels of attraction... Depending on the person as everyone is different.

I don't believe science can really justify this.

People are all different and each has their own free will. They may go based on their body/feelings etc but anything can potentially effect their choices. Upbringing/trauma/guilt/abuse etc.

No one person will have the same response or outcome.
My sister's are in straight relationships and they do not ever mention this complicated debate.
They liked the guy they are with, clearly they want the romantic aspect and they have sex. So both desire/love are both present.

They do not question if they only 'love' them vs their sexual orientation.
I personally cannot say I have ever heard of a person dating someone just for romantic attraction. (No sexual attraction) That would be a friendship.

It's easy to look for specifics and look towards research but in the end... No one can research each individual person. There will always be a basis and an average of any.

Each person is unique and each interpretation of romantic attraction will differ.

I can only base this on my own life experience. I cannot believe something I read online because another human wrote it. They don't know me or my life or why I am the way I am.

I can relate to what you said.

Your example about a gay man loving his wife wouldn't be physically attracted to her. This sounds like history when it was 'wrong' to want to be with you the proven you liked.
In this case the guy has loved this person for a reason (which could be many) as no one person or their decisions can be the same.
Did this make him happy? Was this enough for him to be romantically attractive?

So many questions...

Your interpretation is a great insight but research cannot be reliable.
Use real life examples and that way we can ask questions surrounding why that person made hosr choices and of anything influenced them.

Or is this romantic attraction vs sexual orientation just for people who cannot admit to their feelings/desires?

 

[QUOTE="

1. Not raised in a homophobic environment.
2. Came to terns with and accepted my sexual attraction towards same sex in my mid teen years.
3. Had no reservations about being with another women, or trans person. There was never a time I recall "trying to be straight."
4. I was raised as a female as apposed to nonbinary, but it never felt forced upon me to be or live a certain way, love a certain gender or sex.
5. Began to notice differences in how I attracted to different genders, specifically male and female.
6. Once I learned about sexual vs. romantic orientation as a possible thing. It seemed to resolve, not conflict, with what I was feeling.

That's sort of the idea of what this topic is about. Sexual attraction for a woman is very definable, very clear. There is a physical biological response to being turned on. Romantic attraction, or "arousal" feels very different, it doesn't get a girl wet between the legs, it doesn't cause some of the things that happen when sexually aroused, but it does certainly cause physical feelings that are different than simply liking someone because they are cool, or fun to be with, or make you laugh. These are all things a friend is capable of, and probably caused the friendship to happen in the first place. Romantic feelings, to me, are bodily responses like euphoria, heart racing, or dropping if it's sad or bad, the desire to be affectionate, wanting to kiss, hold hands, cuddle, etc., and though some of those things might also be friendly in nature, they can be instead, romantic in design and desire. The key word here being Desire. There is a type of chemistry that causes this type of desire. I don't mean desire as in, lust, sexual, I mean longing to be with, to touch, to even make life plans with. A desire to see you and that person as a couple, not just go hang out for coffee like a friend would. When these things can occur with one sex or gender and not the other, or others, this is what we use to determine orientation. So for me, sexual orientation causes a different respond than romantic, and romantic a different response than platonic. But I also understand that there may be no need to separate these desires into orientations. That is really the main thing Chip has said that impacts me the most. Is it even necessary when it can simply be acknowledged as part of the vast complexity that are human feelings and desires. For me it does help define me and my experience, but for others it can create unneccesary confusion. Chip is probalby right, there's[/QUOTE]


I can relate to your points.

1. I wasn't raised in a homophobic environment
2. My environment dictated what is deemed as the normal - I never really had the opportunity to really know or understand my sexual orientation.
Lots of factors could come into this... Generation/location/lack of internet so no way to research this etc. No understanding to help guide me.
3. I have never had an reservation about being with anyone. I grew up watching movies and wanted to be with the alien. What's does that say?
4. I was raised as a female and never felt forced to made to believe to be a certain way.
5. I have noticed difference to how I attract to different genders etc.
6. I came across the romantic attraction vs . sexual orientation and it made me question myself more.

I don't have any friends so it's difficult to understand that relationship. Clearly there is something wrong with me. Who knows.

From what I have observed from other family members who have the platonic friendship that you describe. They don't have any sexual feeling towards them.
This is a friendship which I don't understand how they maintained and began whereas no one wants to know me.

No One in my family is gay etc so they don't debate the in-betweens and question themselves. They do say that they couldn't go there with a woman/man so that suggests they do not question their sexual orientation.

I agree with your definition of romantic feeling and desire. However that is what I see with my straight family.
However they have sex with their other half without question of the difference for the person they want to be with.

I thought that I could find that romantic feeling with a guy and believe this with growing with fairy tales etc. However I never found that with my ex. Maybe age would help but it would appear not.
He said he loved me but I didn't love him.

I met this woman 18months and it was the same romantic feeling as you describe. It doesn't matter that she is female.

Maybe romantic is defined differently to each person. As it is for family/friends and potential mates.

For me..
It is intertwined with sexual orientation or sexual orientation doesn't matter.


It's great that it helps you define yourself.
It's always good to learn from different perspectives.

Actually discussing this has helped me define myself too.

 

Hey, I can relate to your points to an extent. For me, both romantic and sexual attractions are evolving in ways I can not control to be honest. I mean that currently i am sexually attracted to types (mainly women) with whom i dont feel any romantic attraction. However, when I am romantically attracted to someone, I am also sexually attracted (at least for some time...) It s complicated!

Hope I made sense

 

This is a very interesting discussion. I can identify with parts of it.
I’m attracted to men’s anatomy and have acted on that a few times over many years. But being romantically attracted to a guy doesn’t seem likely for me. The idea of kissing someone with facial hair seems creepy.
I’m also attracted to women but have only had a few relationships, mainly because I don’t know how to connect romantically with them.
And like some of you have mentioned, I also have trouble making friends.
I’m going to look into therapy. Not sure what else to do now.

 

It seems like based on this that you might be bi. If you feel differently about men and women but experience attraction to them.