detroitlouisred wrote: Anymore it feels someone spoiled the ending to the movie of my life, which is that I’m gay, but I still have to watch and figure out the plot development. Again, it’s not that I feel or think I’m gay because I’ve been with trans women, it’s that my mind keeps telling me that I am. I have found that porn really distorts my mind around who and what I am. I have to remember that porn at the its core is fantasy and nothing else. It’s easy to get off with no stress or anxiety because it’s a relationship with no one but myself and hence no risk or fear or reality. When that turns into real people the fantasy goes away in a hurry and all the rest kicks in (fear, anxiety, shame, yada yada). I watch very little porn now for this reason.
@74andHome That is an excellent point and one I’ve have been contemplating. This couple with internalized homophobia. My therapist has also suggested giving up both porn and masturbating and I’m trying but as an almost daily user for many years it’s a struggle. I’ll get a stretch of a few days and then crack. The odd thing is though is that when I’m with the trans woman I’m dating I’m very easily aroused, something as simple as holding hands will get me erect, or hearing her voice over the phone will do the same. On some level there’s an attraction. I don’t know if it’s strictly sexual but there’s something. On the other hand, anything to do with men has yet to get me physically around regardless of it being real or imagined, in private or public, or porn and fantasy. Now fantasies about certain homosexual acts can cause arousal, but it’s often something I associate with trans women, especially since I lose arousal when a man’s face enters my fantasies. However, my inner voice or mind, whatever you wanted to call it, keeps telling me I’m gay. I’m sure on some level I’m still struggle with accepting myself as not being heterosexual in general but it’s like my mind and body are on two different pages. I can’t for the life of me figure it out and it’s causing a lot of anxiety.
@Bob J20 Is it possible that you have a problem with porn, maybe. Based on my own experiences I think porn can be problematic if consumed too much but I don’t necessarily believe it can make anymore something they’re not. What seems significant to me based on what you said is that the experiences you had with men produced an intense climax but your recent experiences with heterosexuality haven’t really been as great. I can’t say whether it is something that would dictate that you’re gay, but it might indicate a homosexual preference. This doesn’t necessarily mean exclusively homosexual but only you’ll know that.
@detroitlouisred I would check out out same sex erotica roughly 5 times a week, sometimes more/less. It depends on much sex I have with my gf. If there are times when I can't watch it for whatever reason, I get frustrated after a few days. I have read that bisexuality can be steppingstone to homosexuality. Men who start exploring their sexuality end up identifying as gay. You mention the attraction to men in public. From the testimonies you've read, is it that the men allow themselves to find attraction in other men in public i.e. a psychological process?
@74andHome Porn is sexual desire in its purest form. As you mentioned, all the other noise from life disappears.
@CyberSteve88 I think the fact that you get frustrated by not being able to partake in your same sex “desire,” albeit via pornography, might be noteworthy. It seems as though some level of satisfaction is achieved by having sex with your girlfriend but on the other hand, not entirely. There are plenty of men on here who identify as bisexual and I’ve no doubt that their attraction to both male and female is genuine. To your point, I do think there are those who identify as bisexuals initially because that’s what feels right only to have that shift to gay after more experience and self-discovery. There are others here who can speak on that better than I can. I can kind of identify with that on some level. I always felt I was heterosexual as my attractions outside of pornography, mostly trans but also straight, were heterosexual. Then I started to explore my attraction to trans women in real life so I started to see myself as queer or somewhere between straight and bi in terms of sexual activity. However, my attraction and arousal to cisgender women disappeared and was exclusively focused on trans women so I definitely considered myself queer based on sexual activity and arousal. Recently though, it feels like one of those TV infomercials, “But wait, there’s more!” Although gay porn doesn’t really do it for me, the interactions I have with men in the real world led me to believe that I am attracted to them on some level. I think the point that @74andHome is making about porn is that although it can represent sexual desire, at its base level it’s fantasy and no real. Straight men watch lesbian porn because of the fantasy of two women having sex but ultimately that straight man wants sex with a woman. Fantasy. Some straight women watch gay porn because of the same thing, but they don’t want gay sex they want straight sex. Fantasy.
On the private versus public question, I have been digging through some old posts. I came across this from forum member Chip which I thought was interesting. Quote This sounds like someone where there is a struggle between unconscious and conscious. Unconscious knows what it knows -- that there's same sex attraction -- but conscious isn't ready to accept that. If you are regularly masturbating to gay fantasies, they are arousing, and you find they are more arousing than fantasies about women... well, again, that's your unconscious, and it is almost always an accurate reflection of where your hardwired orientation is. What's going on outside the house is a lot more likely to be a shame-based response: Conscious mind is not yet ready to acknowledge same-sex attraction, so it's throwing up these responses of what you believe you should want rather than what you actually feel. When we begin to come to terms with the idea that we might be something other than straight, there are stages we typically go through as we confront and let go of (any) loss, in this case, the loss of identity as straight: denial-anger-bargaining-depression-acceptance. The stages can take anywhere from minutes to months and even longer, and are not necessarily sequential. This may be what's going on for you now; a combination of denial (the behavior outside the house) and bargaining (OK, I feel one way inside and another way outside, so that means I can still be straight.) .............. If you want to explore it further, you might try venturing out in the world for a day or two and imagining that you've fully accepted that you're gay... look at guys. Imagine what it would be like, while out wandering around, if you were dating a guy. Which guy would you want to date? Masturbating at home (without porn) imagine what it would be like if you had a guy that truly loved you and was super into you. You can then try the same experiment assuming you are totally straight. Unquote
@CyberSteve88 What you quoted was actually something I was going to bring up but I was kinda hoping someone might chime in with it. Perhaps even, @Chip himself. He seems to be the sage adviser on these matters. Obviously he cannot tell anyone they’re straight, bi, gay, etc., but generally what he says is true or eventually becomes so for people struggling with their sexuality. If I am indeed gay, I’d bet that I’m just oscillating between denial and bargaining, struggling to achieve or reach acceptance. This could also be a possible explanation for where you are at in this process in regards to public vs. private. One thing I have come to recognize for sure is that genuinely straight people don’t seem to struggle as much with their sexuality. There might be a momentary question or an experience that might make them think twice but I doubt that they go to the lengths nor use as much emotional energy questioning as those of us who are on EC. Have you ever quit using gay erotica for an extended period of time to see what happens?
I do agree that other noise from life disappears when I am making my body feel good watching porn. Maybe that is why heterosexual sex is not as good because I’m not letting go of the noise. Trying so hard to please my partner so they will think I’m good in bed and a great lover instead of doing myself the favor of enjoying how I feel and not worrying about my performance level. But I can’t help but think that when a man is pleasing me, I seem to be able to tell that he is enjoying pleasing me, but with females, it just seems like they are doing something that they feel they have to do instead of just enjoying themselves.
@detroitlouisred To answer your question, I haven't stopped watching gay erotica for any period of time. I sometimes reduce the amount as I don't want to be tapped out for my GF. Do you think it would be a good exercise to stop? It definitely could be an explanation for our behaviours. The next question is how do we allow ourselves to figure all this out? I have been stuck in limbo for a while regarding this stuff.
@Bob J20 If you don't mind me asking, do you have trouble finishing when having hetero sex? It happens often to me. Sometimes I wonder if it's because I'm not aroused enough or similar to you I'm trying to hard to please that I can't enjoy the moment.
@CyberSteve88 I think it would be a good exercise. It is something I’m trying to do myself. I’ve had moderate success. I can go a few days but then I’ll crack. Not to use it as an excuse, but I usually crack due to my anxiety. For whatever reason I feel like I’ll “find my answer” through porn but obviously that’s not been the case. I think giving up the porn might provide you some kind of reset. Not that it will change what arouses you, but it may reveal what arouses you naturally without the use of pornography. Clarity might be somewhat difficult to achieve depending on how often you’re intimate with your girlfriend because you might just “convince” yourself that it was just a porn thing. Then again, maybe it is just a porn thing. Ultimately, I don’t think it’ll help with matters of public vs. private, but again, it might help to reveal what is naturally arousing to you. In regards to the public vs. private question, I think time and rigorous self-honesty are the key. As we’ve all said, the mind is extremely powerful. I think if we keep coming back to these questions or keep struggling to answer them, they’ll be answered in time. How will they be answered in time? Self-honesty.
Let me add a short note on the experience of someone who has come out Bi. I still love having sex with a woman and would not hesitate for a second to have sex with a man, nor would I hesitate to have sex with both a man and a women together. That’s my interpretation of Bi-Sexual. That makes it really simply for me but then I really need things simple. Keep searching and you will find your answers. It may be complicated now, but when you get there you’ll know and it will be simple hopefully from that point forward.
Yes I do. But when I do, I focus on how good it feels and stop thinking about pleasing her and just focus on myself. I think at some point we need to do that anyway. When I’m ready to reach my climax, things get bigger, she can feel that, and I think she shares my climax, when it happens, with me and that makes it better for me. I think at that point it’s ok to think about what your body is feeling.
@detroitlouisred I stopped watching porn in any forms since Monday. Do people still masturbate during this experiment? I find my concentration is already affected.
Eventually, yes. It may take a while from what I’ve heard. Perhaps just start with identifying what thoughts cause arousal.
Good choice I believe. it’s too easy to get caught up in the fantasy while your real life is on standby. I wish you well with the change.
Update: I'm nearly 10 days into this and it's not easy. It feels like I'm depriving myself of basic needs.
Well, kudos to you for powering through. The longest I’ve been able to go is 3-4 days. Have you noticed anything in terms of what is natural arousing to you? You said it feels like you’re “depriving yourself of basic needs.” Is that simply because you simply need a release or because your absent of homosexual desire/arousal?
Just read this whole thread and it shocking how similar my experience is to several of you guys. I’m still pretty confused even though I’ve been on this site for a while. I probably have a problem with porn also as I watch it quite often and it fuels my desire for men. In real life I still only seem to notice women but I wonder if some of that is that I don’t know any gay men and live in a place that is quite homophobic. Anyway, some good insights on this thread so thanks.
