Hello I just wanted to get your takes on my situation being out in some places / to some people and not to others and the effect of family. I feel much more vulnerable than I thought I would. I am in my early 40s, married with a young kid. I have felt more and more uncomfortable with the idea of being 'straight' over the last ten years (I don't think I ever was). I have realised I identify as bi/queer, maybe pan, and since having a baby a few years back, I've become more and more affected by / aware of how culture kind of programs us into certain ways of being. I.e. compulsory heterosexuality. I questioned gender, and gender roles, from an early age, and was 'tomboyish'. Later on I embraced my fem side and feel more feminine now, but I do fluctuate. I have had experiences with men (mainly) but also women. At the moment my attraction is mostly to women. I am very lucky in that I came out as bi to my (straight) husband and he has been really supportive and accepting. He also said it didn't really surprise him Close friends have been supportive and loving. I am also lucky that my workplace is very inclusive, it's an creative college and we have a lot of LGBT people there and young people questioning gender identity and expression. I am partially out at work. It feels different being public rather than private, and I feel like telling people is always on the tip of my tongue. I am wearing a pride lanyard and if people ask, I try to talk! I feel a bit 'out there'... In a way I've not felt before. It feels exciting but also anxiety provoking. My family are a different matter. And I feel I need to protect myself with them. I grew up in a strict, evangelical family, who believe in fundamental Christianity and were 'born again.' We went to charismatic and evangelical churches. This is not as usual in the UK as it is in the US. I don't often meet people who have this background. My parents are still if not more, as religious as they were when we were kids/teenagers. My siblings and I are no longer part of the church or christians. One of my siblings has a preteen who is questioning their gender identity and sexuality. So I thought that this sibling would be a good person to tell first, as we had a close relationship. But I found them to be a bit cold and unresponsive about me confiding in them and I don't know why. Just after I came out to them, we had an argument, about a different matter... But we haven't spoken now for 2 months (which has never happened before). This has made me really sad. In another way, being distant from this close relationship has helped me explore my own identity more. But this experience has put me off telling my other sibling. Both siblings are as far as I know, straight, in hetero relationships with kids. I cannot tell my parents, ever. And this makes me really sad. They will disown me, or be very very upset. They believe other expressions of sexuality/gender are a sin and punishable by God, they would believe I would be lost to God forever and go to Hell. Thia is very real to them. And it was to me, growing up. This perspective on life is I think the main reason why it's taken me so long to recognise (and start to embrace) my authentic self. I love my parents. But it's really difficult. I never realised until recently how limited my options were, how limited they were by my upbringing (I ran away from it by moving to a big city and studying art), then after that moved to another, very LGBT inclusive city with my then BF, now husband. In my 20s/30s I was on the edges of a lot of LGBT spaces and creative activities (music, film, art etc) but never felt like I was genuinely queer enough. I felt like an outsider. I feel like I'm only just starting now, but I still feel like an imposter. This is the first space where I've talked to other LGBT people, as a queer person. The past is also coming back to haunt me as I just found out my new boss is a minister, embedded in a protestant charismatic church. I have looked up the church they are at and it is not LGBT inclusive. I am concerned that my 'safe space' at work, where I have been lucky enough to able to come out bit by bit, is going to be taken away. I have literally just come out there (last month) and now I'm scared I'm going to be back in the box, suppressing things again. The idea of being managed by this person is also giving me flashbacks to the way that my teenage sexual/romantic behaviours were policed by men in the church. I am seeing a therapist at the moment, but they are away for 2 weeks and I felt the need to share. Sorry this turned out to be a very long post. Does anyone else have similar experiences with conservative christian upbringing/being out later etc? I would value your thoughts and experiences xx
My family is very strict Christian’s and my mom is unsupportive. I have yet to come out at home and am openly dating a girl at school. With a few very close friends I have started going by my chosen name Meno. I think it is great that you came out and have support! You are in a great spot with your husband supporting you!
Wow Meno that's so brave of you! I'm in awe of you knowing who you want to be and going for it, while you're still at school. I wish I'd had the courage to do that when I was young. It's hard with religious parents, I felt I was (and am) living a double life. I'm glad you have some close and supportive friends to balance that out. You inspire me ☺️
OMG! I have never inspired anyone! I am glad I am not the only one living two lives! My mom would never approve or understand and it helps me be a little less anxious knowing I am not alone! My friend @Kookey also has a story just like ours but follows a different religious belief!
Hi, @Josieee. It's not an easy thing, breaking away from old thought patterns, behaviours, and beliefs, but it sounds like you're doing your best to work through it all. I understand your fear about telling anyone else in your family, and of course you are under no obligation to tell anyone unless you want to and are ready. If/when that day comes will be the day you've reached a crossroads: specifically the one where you either take one path, leading you deeper into the closet and thus, further into misery over hiding a part of yourself. Or you can take the opposite path, risk losing a relationship with your family, but ultimately be a happier, freer version of yourself once the dust has settled. Neither decision is easy, nor would I advise anyone to take it lightly. At the end of the day, though? If being yourself causes you to lose your relationship with family, then that's a them problem. Being yourself, being honest about who you are and everything that comes with it--especially immutable characteristics like sexual orientation--shouldn't result in people walking away from us. Alas, it happens and when it does, it's so important to understand it's no fault of yours. I won't tell you what to do. All I can tell you is, if holding this in starts negatively impacting you, it's better to let it out. It's good that you're seeing a therapist, though. I'm sure they will have greater insight into how to approach your current predicament. I hope all goes well, whatever you decide.
Thank you @BiGemini87 I really appreciate your support and wise words! I feel like I know the things you're saying with my head but my heart is just really sad about my family. About what it could have been like if my parents didn't have this religion that, to be honest, blocks them off from a lot of things in life. I've been thinking a lot this week about seeking approval and trying to fit in with what my family expected of me. I think I'd deconstructed and dealt with quite a lot of stuff about my parents'/the evangelical church's outdated beliefs about women, and I went to town on feminism in my ,20s/30s... But I'd not really reflected on my super neediness to get married to my BF. And I feel like I was trying to please them (and my siblings) still. I am the oldest but they got married and had kids way before me. There was pressure Marriage was the final stamp of approval (my parents refused to stay over at our house when we were unmarried). I didnt get married until my late 30s and I really wanted to at the time. That was 6 years ago. I definitely don't feel comfortable sharing with siblings until I've talked through things more and worked out what's happening. At the moment it's a protective thing. I'm feeling really grateful to be able to talk about these things here with people who understand, thank you.
No worries, I'm happy to help whenever I can--even if only to listen. I know, it's never so simple as following the logical course. When it comes to matters of the heart and family, it's difficult to navigate the right course of action--because we oftentimes don't know what that is in situations that require tact. If it's any consolation though, it sounds to me like you're making great strides in figuring not only this situation out, but yourself as well. I have no doubt that when the time comes, you'll do what's right for you. In the meantime, I'm glad you feel able to talk about it here; many of the EC family can commiserate with your situation, and I'm sure more than a few will be able to give you even greater input on how you can overcome it.
Rebelrebel.....I am so sorry that you find yourself in this position with your parents. What I find most disturbing is that this never needed to happen in the first place. I know you understand that - if they just had not been involved with this religion none of this would have happened. The thing is that whatever church/evangelical/religion/etc. that they are following is quite obviously NOT following the words of Jesus. Hang on...I'm not going to preach at you!! Just one verse: Mark 12:30-31: "30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” So the point here is that a true christian should be following this commandment directly from the mouth of Jesus. Surprisingly there are Gay Christians. There are a couple of us here on the Empty Closets staff! What the "church" has done to our LGBTQIA+ Family is absolutely horrible. Except that it isn't really the actual "Church" it's the people in it who have twisted Christianity to fit what they want instead of what it really is. I know I sound like I'm a little weird, but what I say is true and if you wish more info I can send it to you...just let me know. Ok, I know that your post is more about what to do about your family. First of all, a decision made based on emotions can rarely be changed by facts. So trying to change your parents position on our LGBTQIA+ Family by informing them with up to date facts and information is probably a lost cause. The best you can hope for is that, over time, their love for you will eventually overcome their beliefs about your sexuality. Next...this is your life, not theirs. They have and are living their life as they see fit. It's now your turn to live your life as you see fit. Sometimes parents have a tough time letting go of their children. From the time when you were small they have had a picture of what your life will be in their mind. When you deviate from that, they can have have a difficult time and can actively fight against it. It may be tough, but I really do think you need to move on with your life. Don't reject your parents...even if they reject you. They may become very angry and tell you to never talk to them again. If it was me I would still send them pictures of their grandchild, etc. invite them to birthday parties. In other words, even if they slam the door in your face, don't retaliate. Do your best to keep communication open, even if they refuse...you can be the "real Christian" in the relationship! Oh, I don't mean you have to start going to church, etc. I mean you can act the way a real Christian should, even if they do not. Ten or even fifteen years down the road they may find that they have a very heavy conscience...but you won't! As for at your job...that one is something that you are just going to have to handle carefully day by day. A good, decent boss shouldn't let personal beliefs enter into the workplace. However, I don't know what kind of job you have or what kind of a relationship your job has to your boss. So I guess the best advice there is to keep your eyes and ears open and walk carefully as you learn more about your boss. .....David
Thank you, seriously I feel so different after only being here for a week. I feel really supported and validated. In a way I feel like I'm starting to care less about the biological family stuff and lean more into my chosen family, which now includes people here! It's good to be in a place where others understand. X
I wish that I had more to offer than I do, but I grew up in a not particularly conservative, Catholic family. Although my parents drug me to mass and CCD every week, I was taught to question everything. Although they keep asking me why I don't go to church anymore even though I know that neither one of them are particularly interested in being there.. I think my mom remodels people's houses in her head and my dad has learned the fine art of napping with his eyes open and not snoring. My big rebellion was not going the youth group like most of my friends did. I've worked for a couple of religious people and ended up outing myself as not a Republican, nut that isn't quite the same thing although it did get me some grief when I put a campaign bumper sticker on my car. Not quite like a rainbow flag sticker.
I haven't been here long and I agree that it's quite a relief to talk with like-minded folks. I'm in a similar situation, but as a guy and also someone who has grown distant from his family due to living overseas. My wife totally accepts me as bisexual, even admitted a bisexual tendency herself. Still, I don't know if I'll tell many friends or family. My family is pretty religious. I'm also a little more same-sex leaning at the moment, but I've gone through these phases many times. I know it will always fluctuate. You are a normal person. We like who we like, right?
Thank you @quebec for your kind words, encouragement and perspective. I think you're right, there's nothing I can really do to change my parents perceptions. Reading about others experiences with intolerant parents, especially ones who are currently living in terrible situations has made me realise how difficult it was when I lived with my parents, and how grateful I am to now be grown up and be away from the situation. I held onto that idea all through my teens- 'One day, I will be free, I will not have to be here anymore' I'm also realising how much I sought (and sometimes still seek) approval from my parents, despite their beliefs (as well as the fundamentalism they are right wing conservative), which I wholeheartedly disagree with! This really resonated ... *****Next...this is your life, not theirs. They have and are living their life as they see fit. It's now your turn to live your life as you see fit.*** I have been thinking about this, on and off for a while. They are living their life and don't care what others think (obviously!!!!) I do feel the need to live mine now, authentically. But I'm still holding back, for fear I will be rejected and ridiculed by my family. I need to work out how I can start to leave this fear behind. It feels so silly, I'm middle aged and I still care so much about how they perceive me. I have been thinking a lot this week about my approval seeking and how to overcome it. Re the new boss, I work in an educational institution that has rules around equality, diversity discrimination etc so I should be protected. The position the person is taking is directly supervising me in my pastoral work with undergrads, so it tends to be quite a close working relationship. I have not yet met the person so I don't want to prejudge, but I did want to voice my ambivalent feelings about being closely managed by someone with similar beliefs to my parents. I think your advice to be safe and gauge the vibe is a good one. X
I actually love this!!! I have a great picture in my head of your parents. I'm glad you were brought up to question everything <3
This..... ! Yes, it's all that it boils down to. You make it sound so simple, and it kinda is really Im glad your wife is accepting too. It makes such a difference.
Rebelrebel.....Thanks for the reply and your kind words. I hope what I'm going to share next doesn't blow you out of the water...so I'm asking you to read and think about it carefully! Hang on for the ride..... *****I am an evangelical born-again Christian. A member of a very conservative evangelical church. A deacon and the church treasurer. I lead the worship team preparing and doing the music for the Sunday morning worship service. I have been the church treasurer and have taught the adult Christian Education class as well as Sunday School classes at every age level at one time or another. I have also been the Youth program leader several times in the past. although not now. I have also preached for the morning service several times when the pastor was absent...and I am Gay! However, no one at church knows that I am gay. (The "why" of why I stay at the church when I'm gay and might not be accepted if they knew is another long post which is not for right now) So this puts me in the exact opposite position of so many people, especially young people who are trying to come out to a non-accepting family. Of course, you don't have to be young to find yourself in the position of having parents that will not accept your sexuality, as you so obviously know. My problem is that my wife was raised from early childhood in a very conservative church and I have raised three sons in that same church. One of them has even become a minister! I think that I understand your feelings at least a little when I choose to come out to my wife and kids. At first I said that I would take my secret to my grave, that I would never tell my family. Then with the help of the wonderful people here on Empty Closets and an incredible therapist I did come out to my wife. It wasn't easy and there were a lot of tears and questions. That was six years ago next week. She has accepted me and we are staying together. We do love each other although it's is perhaps not the same as what others may call love. We have a deep emotional tie that has been built up over 44 years together and neither one of us wants to be with anyone else. Because I was facing a potential end of life health event and surgery, I chose to tell my oldest son, in case he would need to care for his mother. He is the minister. I am so incredibly proud of him as he wanted to know only one thing...had I keep my wedding vows to his mother. Since I had done that and had no intention of doing anything else he also has accepted that he can still love his father even though his father is gay. Last year on my birthday, my middle son came to me in private and said he needed to talk. He was nervous and I could tell it was something big. After a bit of beating around the bush he came out to me as pansexual. At the moment he had no idea at all that I was gay. All the time he was talking I was thinking; "Is this the time that should come out to him?" When he finished I gave him a big hug and then I said "(his name) I'm gay" Then we both burst into tears and hugs for a while. So far there hasn't been a need for me to tell my youngest son, although I'm sure that when the time is right that it will happen. *****So why do I share all of this with you? Well, there are some conservative, evangelical Christians who do believe the words of Jesus that I quoted to you earlier in Mark12:30-31. We do believe that we should love others as we love ourselves. Some of us believe that the choice of who gets in to heaven is not our choice, but God's. Some of us actually study what the Bible really does say, not what someone else tells us what it says. And believe me, what some people say that the Bible says only convinces me that they have never actually done more than read a verse in the morning with their coffee! I am so sorry that your parents have the attitude that people who don't believe as they do may be headed to hell. I know that I would never and I do mean never say anything like that to anybody. It's not my prerogative to try to step into the shoes of God and do his work...no way...not at all am I ever going to try to do that! ***** As I mentioned in the post above, you can be the "Christian" in spirit in this situation. No matter how they act, you can remain civil and accepting. Be open to them even if they make hurtful comments or cut you off completely should they find out about your sexuality. Then you will not be carrying a load of guilt because you treated them poorly. They will be the ones who will have to deal with the consequences of their words and actions. *****I mentioned in the post above that I have more information about the Bible, Christianity and Homosexuality. I'm going to put the link down here at the bottom. If you ever feel the need to check out what the Bible actually says about these topics you can check it out. It's easy to read and really does make the whole thing quite clear! *****Please keep us updated on how this continues to work out. Remember, you are a part of our LGBTQIA+ Family and we do care! ....David https://www.gaychurch.org/homosexuality-and-the-bible/the-bible-christianity-and-homosexuality/
Hi @Rebelrebel - like those above in this thread, I'm going through similar struggles. I grew up in grew up in a Catholic family who were kinda progressively conservative. I do regret not sharing who I really am with them. I think they knew about my sexuality and struggled to discuss it with me, maybe your family too? I do remember being acutely sensitive to their views on queer people, which were ill informed and sadly viewed through the lenses of both mainstream religion and the AIDS pandemic (you and I grew up when AIDS colored so much of how society saw queer people, imagine that impacted your parents too). I heard and processed every slur or caught every closed off reaction to the few queer people we would run into. I imagine it was that much more overt for you, which is so damaging given these are the people you need most. Not sure i'd have been as brave as you to seek out the arts in that environment. Maybe your siblings and parents are jealous you were sought out more through the arts? I remember one summer during college, between semesters, I came circa 0600 home after bar hopping. My mother was, rightly scared and angry, at me. I distinctly remember her chastising me for not calling her to say I would be late, then asking if I was hanging out in a gay bar. The question was so out of context we both just stood there (fyi, I was not at a gay bar -- that time). Though clumsy, I loved her for trying to reach out and regret to this day not sitting down with her and talking. I liked @quebec point Seems to me a part of growing up is becoming the parent to your parents If there is one truly religious concept I've kept with me, it's the concept of grace, which @quebec beautifully captured. That, and you're not alone. There are a lot of us here, worlds of music and books, and excellent spirits (in @quebec's sense and the more corporal )
