Siena, your point 'i was afraid of being intimate with a man' - how did you overcome that. was it just a case of getting on with it, or how did you overcome your fears of intimacy and was was it that was causing you fear?
Thank you for the kind words. EC was very instrumental in my own coming out, and I'm glad that I can share my knowledge with you and others as a way of giving back to EC. Unfortunately there is no simple answer to this question. There are two aspects of intimacy - physical and emotional. My thought process has been to heal my internalized homophobia and shame and the rest will take care of itself. So once you get to a point where most of the internalized homophobia has been purged, you can function day-to-day without feeling ashamed that you are gay. There are still pockets of internalized homophobia, but these can be quickly neutralized. There is a bit of a bootstrapping process to get to a place where you are totally comfortable being yourself. For context it might be helpful to review the stages of coming out that are described here - Empty Closets - Stages of Coming Out. For me the bootstrapping process is a very iterative combination of the following Education - Learn about what it means to be gay and how to get more comfortable with yourself. Reflection - Think about your own experiences and feelings to help you understand yourself. Action - You need to act gay to get comfortable being gay. One approach is to take baby steps to get comfortable with the uncomfortable. You need to do some education and reflection to get to a point where you are comfortable enough to act. Once you act and realize something isn't so scary, you want to take on more. For example, you want to educate yourself about safer sex before getting physical with guys. You can then join a dating/hookup site and chat with guys. The next step is to go on a date and have a goodnight kiss. Eventually things might get physical (or it may get physical sooner since that's the reality of gay dating). So to address your question about overcoming my fear of intimacy with a man, I pushed myself to experiment with the physical (via safe hookups then with FWB when I I was a closeted bisexual). I started with a hand job, then progressed to oral, and I went on from there. I created leverage to act because I did not want to die without discovering this part of me, so I was motivated to push myself through the fear and discomfort of trying these new things. You won't get comfortable until you push yourself to do the uncomfortable. It's like going swimming in cold water. Do you just jump in or do you dip your toes in the water? The emotional piece is a little trickier and requires more acceptance, so that might take time. Eventually you'll get to a point where you can start dropping your guard with a guy. I was scared of my second date with a guy because I knew I was exploring a new level of intimacy with him (both physical and emotional). When we are in the closet, we are unable to fully honest with our partners because we are so guarded because we need to protect our secret. There are no secrets with him. I'm out and I feel so comfortable with him that I could drop my guard totally around him. I'm at a point where I feel the fear, understand it, deal with it, and get on with it. #sfpost ---------- Post added 30th Jun 2016 at 08:07 AM ---------- Congratulations on your emerging acceptance of your authentic gay self. Continue to educate yourself and reflect on your situation until you are ready to find somebody to be gay with. My previous post is equally applicable to you, so check it out!
Thanks SF, you've been great. It's so weird, but it seems like you know where I am going going more than me. I look at my posts even a week ago and your posts. You're too nice to say it, but it's almost like you thought " "sigh" he knows he's gay but can't face it, he'll be back". I was going to write something like 'there's no turning back now", but there never was any turning back, I can't turn back from being gay because I am gay. Now the fact that I am gay is with me even in the moments of ....I can't say denial anymore but the moments when I don't want it. That's a big difference from when I first came here. ---------- Post added 1st Jul 2016 at 07:01 PM ---------- I was going to come out to someone last night until I realized I really haven't, well, made it official yet
A super critical question in my mind is if there's one part of a male you're constantly attracted to. If so, I think you'll at least be bi. As a now open bisexual myself, I see some of my own denial in you. And you don't have to label yourself gay, bi, straight, curious etc
I know where you are going because I've already traveled that road on my journey. You're still fighting with yourself about not wanting to be gay. Part of you still views it as a choice, and the wrong choice for you, so you don't want to be gay. This is your internalized homophobia talking. You learned growing up that being gay is bad or evil. You need to identify and neutralize these messages. Being gay is how your brain is wired, and it's a part of you like the color of your eyes. Do you think that your eye color is bad or evil? Why then your sexuality? You're the first person who has called me too nice. I'm not intentionally mean to people who are still discovering their sexuality, although I have been known to ask the occasional tough question from time to time. I'm not entirely sure what this means. By coming out to someone, you make it official I'm guessing you're waiting until you have some hot gay sex under your belt (!)
please keep asking them! I was talking to an old girlfriend the other day and i almost wanted her to tell me that I was gay. today as i predicted I am very confused. I sat in the park and my eyes naturally went to women... but no arousal but romantic attraction and sexual but can't get aroused. no interest in guys. but my loins are exploding when I think of identifying gay and I want to come out. I really don't understand. ---------- Post added 2nd Jul 2016 at 10:25 PM ---------- SF: I might pull back from here a bit not to run away but think...., read the for and against literature.. or that 's the wrong way to put it - finding myself literature.. I will read the Velvet Rage as you recommend. so right now: for: a. feeling so happy accepting the fact. b. other posters journey's almost feel like footprints i am following. c. intense desire to come out. d. intense desire to have sex with a man. far more intense than with a woman which is almost non-existent. against: a. I look at women love looking at them and am sexually attracted (but not aroused). I really don't like looking at men. even accepting my sexual urges. b. something tells me i have a disconnect with sex. Is it possible i just have a 'gay sex fetish"? c. there are moments when it feels like just as big a lie and just as big an effort.
findingjoy, Since you are compiling a for and against list, I'm hoping that you might permit me to suggest a few entries. Based on your initial thread as comingout2016, you seemed pretty sure that you were gay (and what you posted made me think you were gay). In particular this statement is quite telling that you are gay (or high on the Kinsey scale). Chip (an EC admin) refers to this exercise as a very reliable way to determine one's orientation (assuming that you are doing it without watching porn). You also referenced how getting off with your ex-GF was quite the chore. Both of these should be added to your for: category. One of the biggest challenges of coming out is overcoming your own internalized homophobia. Most people (myself included) don't want to be gay initially. We learned growing up that being gay is bad or evil, so we spend a lot of energy trying to convince ourselves straight. At some point I realized the futility in this after being brutally honest with myself that I am predominantly attracted to guys. When this happened, I stopped fighting myself and started to learn to love myself as a gay man. This is an important pivot point on your journey. It definitely takes time to eradicate the internalized homophobia, so be patient with yourself. I feel that The Velvet Rage will help you understand your internalized homophobia. You may even identify with some of the behavior patterns the author writes about. I certainly did. You seemed pretty sure that you were gay in your initial thread. I'm wondering what has caused you to question this a month later? Do you feel that you creating doubt in your own mind? What is stopping you from fully embracing your sexuality? While reflection is always useful, please realize that action is an equally if not more powerful tool. The best way to know if you are gay is to have sex (genital stimulation via HJ, oral, or anal sex) with another guy. Do you feel ready to try that? You'll probably need a few rounds before sex with a man feels comfortable. I certainly did. The first time I performed fellatio was weird but now I love it. I apologize if you are uncomfortable because I'm suggesting this before you are ready; however, pushing through your fear is another important aspect of coming out and finding your authentic self. I know that coming to terms with your sexuality is probably one of the hardest things you will have done in your life; it was for me. I'm now at a point where I'm far happier and more content with myself because I'm no longer living a lie. I'm sharing this with you to show you what is possible when you embrace what is there and real. I saw raw honesty in your initial posts that impressed me, so I certainly know that you have what it takes to get there yourself. (&&&) #sfpost
....yes without watching porn ...I ran away from here again...but i have been lurking.. then I read this: Hi ..I was going to come back and post here that "I am really not gay" it was some fantasy or something... and read this post yesterday, and the waves of emotion and warmth start, and whatever I was telling myself starts to fall apart. I have that warm feeling... but how do I know that's 'real'? I think women are beautiful, I like looking at them.. but then I read barista's post ... before I had said this: but then I realized the day before I guy was looking at me and I immediately turned away. I knew he was gay- its at a gym I go to and i have talked to him before, and I realized the 'no interest in guys' is not true. I imagined kissing him... I have never fantasized that way before -only ...well... lower region sex.... I have been refraining from all forms of sex (including self induced) for over 30 days, and I am trying to step back from this , but when I lurk here, it hits me like a tidal wave.
How do I accept that I am gay. This comes with time. I was in a state of denial for roughly 20 years, afraid to ask that very question. After the last marriage to yet another abusive woman blew up, i decided it was high time to face myself. Weighing the evidence: For: I'm here. Incredible wave of joy and emotion when I think about fully accepting myself as gay. Shaking and trembling when I told myself finally, that I was gay and it wasn't just a fetish or sexual urge. Vivid far more intense sexual urges about men I look at a womans butt and think 'nice' but I look at a a nice butt on a guy, when i finally let myself , unbelievable waves of passion. Very often when I had sex with women I had to imagine myself with a guy to get off. I imagine myself performing oral sex on a guy without me being stimulated and I like it and want to do it. I realize I had a crush on a guy in high school and to this day he's the only one i can get aroused about from high school. In the last few days of accepting myself as gay, I can see myself with a guy romantically. Wanting to tell close friends I am gay. They are not gay but I feel we would be closer. ------------------------------- I can so totally relate with this. I had crushes on actors when i was a kid, hardly dated in high school, was more interested in women for their fashion, on and on. I would masturbate to gay porn and would feel totally guilty about it afterwards. I would dress up as a girl and feel really guilty about it. I truly FORCED myself to be straight. It didnt work. It became a game of jumping through flaming circus hoops. "well if i do THIS, then i will be straight" Nope, doesn't work that way..... I was practically suicidal after my first experience with a man. After more or less hitting rock bottom emotionally about 6 months ago, and rebounding after i came to terms with it all, life is vastly different, and a hell of a lot better. Sex with a man is a whole different ballgame now! Fun, exciting, passionate! I can truly be seductive! I can truly lose myself in the moment!!!! Against: A lingering feeling that I don't accept this as me. This will pass. ---------------------------------------------- I don't want this to happen . Look i didn't either, but accepting myself was a game changer... ------------------------------------------------------------- Isolation, masturbation can fantasies can cascade on their own right after masturbating about a guy i feel guilty. This will also pass.... ---------------------------------------------------------- I like looking at women more in public in fact I only look at women. I have been in relationships with women, I loved them. When I was with a woman and had sex gay fantasies were few and far between. I hate to sound like a broken record, but that will pass...
hi! thanks for replying. Most of your post I could understand but this I could not -to me It means when i am in a real world relationship with a woman I am "less gay" . and this: I LOVE women's fashion but I have no desire to dress up or be a woman. But I also realize I get highly aroused but not sexually aroused by women who i find beautiful. Do you have any insights? This is the one piece of the puzzle i can't figure out.
Sometimes another members journey can help you. On another thread baristajedi wrote: So I tried that today. I told myself I don't have to accept being gay, I don't have to be gay tomorrow, just today, act as if I were gay with no restrictions no baggage, no thinking about the future or things I would have to change or do... just 'be gay'. So I am going to write this with that perspective, and just realize that tomorrow I might reject it all - I am writing from my 'character'. First I realized that 'being gay' doesn't mean I have to look at an love every guy, but where I let myself look I got very aroused. I looked at women and I realized that I like them because they are beautiful but I don't get aroused....at all. I might admire their sensuality and femininity and clothes, but I don't get aroused. Question: why do gay designers like women's fashion? ...now for the 'the big one'. Working out today there is a guy who I thought was attractive - I saw him last year a few times and I thought he was trying to hit on me but quickly suppressed it. Today I actively sought him out and we started talking and I realized we were flirting! :eek: We were talking about I don't know what we didn't care... my heart started racing. He introduced himself and we shook hands and our hands lingered a little longer than 'normal'. The rest of the day if I thought about him I would become... let's just say very as aroused. After I thought ...WOW I just flirted with a guy for the first time in my life, completely sober, in the early morning in fact. I looked around lots of fit looking women, none I felt I wanted to 'flirt' with. I realized: in the past any relationship with women was driven by them - they asked me out they initiated.. this felt totally natural. I am sure, more sure than I have ever been with a woman, that this guy and me will hook up if I choose to pursue it, and that's very scary for me. If i don't' think about anything else, it all feels so nice, I feel very happy and excited.
"Today I actively sought him out and we started talking and I realized we were flirting! " Good for you! I wish I could get up the courage to flirt in person. I can if I meet them online, then in person, but meeting someone in person and flieting, not there yet.
I came out to another friend today on fb messenger. It felt so detatched and surreal. Lately I've felt like -- if it weren't for frequent reminders from my vagina -- I would feel like I'm making it all up. Like, really? Is this my life? I tick "lesbian" boxes on forms now. What's that?
Thanks. It's the first time I have tried something 'in the real world', and I think it's an important step to realizing that being gay is not just a fantasy. ---------- Post added 21st Jul 2016 at 07:35 PM ---------- I know exactly what you mean. This little flirt made me realize it's 'real'. How I want to deal with it is another story. I haven't come out to anyone and I don't know if I am going to. I was just trying to 'be gay' for a day, but now I want more.. I want to flirt with this guy again! but at the same time I am having difficulty believing I am gay....but at the same time these feelings and actions keep growing and growing.
How do I know I am gay? After three months of abstaining from sex or masturbation or stimulation of any kind I imagine myself with with a guy and get an instant erection. I vividly feel everything, the warmth the passion the intimacy. I look on the street and see beautiful women and say to myself 'just imagine doing anything with her' and I can't even focus on it. How do I know I am gay? All I have to do is say it and feeling of warmth and peace comes over me. Really I don't have to debate its only a matter of not listening to my denial anymore. Once I came here and admitted I was gay the genie was out of the bottle. There's not turning back. It's not going to be easy but I can't ignore it anymore.
