Trying to understand butch lesbians as a straight man

Don't blame sexuality on childhood. Seriously, you're going to make all of us throw up. Lesbians are not man-haters, they're vagina lovers. They don't care if you're a man, they don't hold any angst again men. And they certainly a product of some psychological complex that she may or may not have with men. They just like women.

Don't you see? It's impossible to only ask about the sex part. It is not possible, because it's so much more complex then just sex. I'm sorry - we cannot make this about something it is not.

If you feel upset at the loss of your relationship, that's fine. It's understandable. Just remember, she tried to live in a thirteen year lie, too, so that you would be happy. You need to let it go, let her go, and be happy for her. You can't blame yourself for it, as there was nothing that you could have done. You need to accept her for whatever she is whether it's lesbian, bi, transgender, or a purple lion.

 

While I think your feelings are completely valid saying that the time was wasted may be a tad unfair and untrue. I'm sure there were plenty of good times in your marriage or I imagine it would have ended before now. Also, you're speaking as if she is gay. If she is then I suppose technically yes it was a waste of time for you both, but if not, if she is in fact bisexual which is just as likely, then it was no more a waste of time than any other couple whose marriage ends in divorce.

With regards to your last sentence, I'm curious as to why it is that the fact that she said shed been with a woman before (especially considering that she said she didn't like it and it wasn't for her at the time) should have been a red flag for you? And as it's something that you now ask women when you're dating, are you saying that you'd never now be with a woman who had been with other women before?

 

I think her saying she didn't like it when she was with women before could be her being in denial about her sexual orientation . but that's just a guess .

---------- Post added 22nd Jul 2014 at 01:52 PM ----------

We don't know if she's lesbian or bisexual , and let me guess the huge likelihood that her fling will not last is your going by your a man and have a penis right ? .
Like I told you stop blaming yourself , it's ok to be upset but this had nothing to do with you here attraction to women has nothing to do with you or any other man that was in her life she just likes women and that's all to it . It's that simple
Stop thinking of this as a penis vs vagina thing .

 

Ok first of all just because a woman is bisexual , doesn't mean she can't be a good girlfriend or wife or faithful . Now I think your wife was clearly going through some denial probably before, she met you and probably realized Oh man this isn't working for me . Just because you experience this with one woman doesn't mean all bisexual woman are that way . that's like saying oh this one woman took all my money all women are money hungry and steal my money . Do not paint all bisexual women with that brush .
If you want to date only straight women that's fine but don't go around saying these things about all bisexual women .

 

I don't agree with you but I understand how you feel. That said, if something really is right then that wanting another woman scenario would never happen, even if she had previously been with other women. Stocking is right, regardless of your reservations it's unfair to tarnish all bisexual women with the same (unfortunately stereotypical) brush of promiscuity and infidelity. It's less of a possibility that it might happen, more of a paranoia on your part because you have experienced it with one woman, but do try to remember that she is only one woman, there are plenty of others out there who you will never experience it with, whether they're straight or bi. And do remember that you could be with a 100% straight woman who would up and leave you or be disconnected or perhaps be unfaithful to you with another man, that behaviour is not exclusive to anyone of a particular sexuality, it's just a bad stereotype that needs to be stamped out.

We obviously don't know your ex but perhaps she is gay and that would have happened regardless of whether it was you or any other man she was with. That said if she is bisexual then maybe she did want to be with a woman rather than a man for a bit, or maybe it's just that the first person she met after you two split up that she really liked happened to be a woman, it could well have been a man you just don't know yet.

You said in your other post something about not being good enough to work it out with. If she is gay that is absolutely not the case, there is nothing to work out because she likes women, end of. Nothing to do with you being good enough or not good enough.
If she is bi, then there may be a whole multitude of reasons, the same as with any hetero couple, why she wanted to leave. Again, it has nothing to do with you not being good enough; if they were things that could have been worked on that she told you about and you worked on or that she maybe never told you about or even things that couldn't have been worked on, maybe she just doesn't feel the same way about you any more, it happens. But none of these things are your fault and none of them mean that you are not good enough.

 

aww it sounds like your jealous , but if you put it that way then maybe you might have a point and I can see that . But maybe that's what she likes in her who knows . I'm a serious person myself and mature but I have liked women who were immature . But you don't know how they act when they are together to me your just seeing the surface .

 

As a bisexual, I find that offensive. Just because I'm bi, I'm less committed, less loving, less loyal, less sure of my decisions, less affectionate? Absolutely not. I'm just as likely to leave a man for a woman as I am a woman for a man, or a woman for a woman, or a man for a man.

 

You seem like a nice guy, you don't seem to be saying any of this to be malicious or anything like that, I think you just seem a bit misguided and undereducated on these kind of things. I don't mean to be patronising at all and I apologise if it comes across that way but really, why would you understand? This isn't something you've come across or dealt with before and I can only imagine how confusing and stressful it is for you.

I know I'm not your ex nor do I know anything about her so answering things specifically related to her is something that I probably won't be able to do, but if you want to ask any questions, or just talk then you are more than welcome to send me a private message if you want to. It probably feels a bit like we're ganging up on you and that you're saying all the wrong things, but truthfully we just want you to try to understand and come to terms with things better. I honestly believe that you just need to maybe learn a bit more about these kind of things and about alternative sexuality kind of things and that will help you a lot in understanding your ex's behaviour and with any potential new partner, and also just in general, help you to be better educated on these kinds of things.

It's not your fault, most people don't know a whole lot about these things, even those of us within the LGBT community don't know everything, and I certainly don't claim to be an expert. But yeah, I apologise again if I have come off as patronising, that wasn't my intention at all but if you want to message me and talk or ask questions or anything like that then my inbox is always open and you are welcome to message me if you want to.

 

Pigpassport is right. In all honesty, it is frustrating for us to hear all the negative stereotypes of our sexuality from someone and feel bad about the position they're in, especially on a safe website, where we go to escape such words and accusations. I know you mean well, you just don't know better. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as rude or argumentative.

 

I didn't mean to sound mean either but I was worried that he was blaming himself for all this when it's not his fault . he's definitely not use to this at all and only has a hetero normative way of thinking . I'm surprised he felt bitter to all bisexual women but it's not his fault and I don't think he's a bad person .

 

son get therapy and start dating, rebounding, hooking up, new hobbies, old hobbies, whatever gets you moving and thinking about other stuff till u dont need therapy anymore, good luck god bless

 

I know for myself, I had no idea that I liked women, but if she had previous experience, I can see how it's more difficult to accept. She could have made an excuse such as it was an experiment or phase and decided to push the fact she liked women away. I can't answer the why for her, only she can do that and there is no point in you trying to figure it out because it's not going to change anything. I feel very guilty for getting married, even though I wasn't aware I was a lesbian, but I don't regret my children. I can't change what happened, and I sometimes wish I could have but doing that wishes away my children. I feel like I also cheated myself because I could never have the emotional connection or even romantic that I experience with women.
Now, I will try to help with the butch question, but I don't know if I can provide much insight because I don't have any experiences yet. I do prefer butch however, so maybe I can help a little. First as so many have pointed out, even though she may appear more masculine, a butch is still a woman and women are beautiful. I love their natural look and even if they are very masculine, as soon as they smile you see the feminine and it makes me melt. I also have 'masculine' characteristics but I am feminine in appearance. I think these so called characteristics are only perceived as either masculine or feminine because of gender norms when in reality some people are one way and others another, but gender is socially constructed and 'norms' don't always apply. And butches don't necessarily always act masculine or are the 'man' in the relationship and they may enjoy penetration. Stating that they don't is stereotyping and I think this upsets many people and I can understand why. No one likes to be stereotyped.
Women are soft, regardless of whether butch, femme, or every other type of lesbian, and apparently kissing them is very different then men (again, no experience), and from what I've been told sex is also very different. Again, the fact that they are women makes these things that much better because it's who lesbians are attracted to.
Emotional connection makes a very big difference between men and women, for lesbians anyways. I can't connect emotionally with men but I do with women, and it hit me hard when it happened and I think that emotional connection plays a very big factor in how sex is enjoyed. I don't know if this helped any. All I can say to you is stop trying to figure this out because you are only going to hurt yourself in trying to understand. There are some things you won't get an answer to and you can run around in circles trying to find those answers. Yes, you knew there were red flags and pursued anyways, but again, you can't change that. You loved her and probably still do, and it hurts and it's going to hurt, but again, there is nothing you can do to change that. Think about you now, and discover what it is that you want from this point. Find a way to say good-bye to her and the life you thought you had because until you find some form of closure it's going to consume you.

 

Listen, I'm trying to be as respectful and compassionate as possible, since I try to be regardless of the person asking for help (to the point of irrationality), but - quite frankly, it is your response to this that tells me she was probably terrified of telling you. Based on all this, I don't blame her for one second in not telling you. Clearly, you were not going to take it well. I'd have been concerned for her safety, frankly (yes, that's how poorly you're coming off at times.

Actually, it's something we've heard plenty here - just from gay people instead of straight people. I expect the term is new to you, but it's called biphobia.

If your wife, or any women in your future, is bisexual (and not gay, which you're guessing in the first quote that she was), she will have no problem with and can be completely fulfilled by a relationship with a man. That still doesn't mean, if she leaves you, that she was gay. That's an excuse. If a bisexual woman leaves you, well - the mean way of putting it is that it was you - the kinder way would be to say it just wasn't working out.


Like many biphobic gay people here, while I hope you change I won't expect it. Just think about it, though.

No, one's gender expression has absolutely nothing to do with what type of sex they enjoy, particularly in queer people that haven't been brainwashed into gender roles like it seems so many straight people have. There are gay men far more masculine than you that are exclusive bottoms, and queens that only top. Same for goes for gay women.

What type of sex a "butch" lesbian enjoys depends only on her own personal preference.

 

♀: "Also there are other sensations we feel at the same time with that sensation, the shock is not only a feeling of massage to a needing muscle, but also a sudden shock of passion, she feels very much in love, very deeply connected, it triggers deepest emotions that a woman can have, it can trigger, sad, horny, love, romantic, happy deep passions to flow all the way up pur chest, thru our breasts, thru our soul, sending shock waves all thru body."

♂: "As a guy, I have always felt an emotional connection during sex. Its hard not to, the eye contact during various acts through a session sends out countless emotions. I can see the pleasure, excitment, happiness,relief,satisfaction,desire,love, and positive energy like a laser entering my eyes from hers going deep into the soul. Which makes my emotions go bananas causing the love making to be almost spiritual, out of this world everytime. And thats what it should be, not a chore like some guys make it seem."

This is how two people described sex on the Internet and that's what I believe a lesbian can't experience with a man. At least I didn't. It's been always just sex, never love making for me. Even when I loved him I've never felt emotionally connected on a deeper level, like I've never been really present.
I understand you're hurt but what I wanted to say is that if she's lesbian or bi leaning to women there was nothing you could have done.

 

Would you have been just as upset if she'd left you for another man?
Because if she's bisexual, then that's no different from what happened.
She left you for another person, because she felt the relationship with you didn't satisfy her anymore.
That is all.
And now she fell in love with someone who happens to have a vagina.
It's not about sex, I hope your relationship with her wasn't just about that.
And if she's bisexual she can love a woman as much as she could love you.

Your problem isn't that she left you for a butch woman, or any woman for that matter, but that she left you, period.

You can't deal with the break up, and somehow it hurts your ego even more that she's with a woman now, because it makes you feel not "man" enough apparently, whatever, i dont know.

Like " she had my penis, what else could she want?!". Love isnt about genitalia ffs.
You can have the biggest, thickest penis in the world and know how to use it well, and some women still wont want you. That's life.

 

If you care about her, you can tell her; maybe she feels the same way or maybe not. The choice is hers now. She wants to find what it is that she wants just like you probably know what you want, but it seems like your relationship is past the point where the two of your wants will line up.