Mhm. Well the issue here is our understanding of words like religion, faith, and spirituality. Christianity, in its pure form, is NOT supposed to be a religion. What? you say. Christianity is a faith, with members having a spirituality as developed from their faith. Religion is this: an extreme spiritual practice of following rules to the letter with no rationalization, no disobedience and no pleasure. Is this right for some people? Perhaps. Religion, in this sense, in its original sense, is like being a benedictine monk. Faith is something more abstract. Instead of logic, which is reasoned off of cold, hard objective facts, faith is subjective and is based off of personal experiences. It's forgoeing what is factual and seeking what is "actual" (not to say factual isn't actual, but the sterility of facts is quite boring, let's be honest). Spirituality is your connection with yourself, with others and with the environment around you. Faith is your belief in this connection. So if we abandoned this primitive notion of religion (i.e. something along the lines of Saudi Arabian Islam), and took steps to having faith and spirituality (say Catholicism, or any semi-liberal spiritual community, without the bureaucrats shoving their bullshit down everybody's throats), perhaps this would be a better place for gays across the board. Religion is a system of fear, not love. Spirituality, and faith in that spirituality, amen amen my brothers and sisters I say to you amen, is the key! Its love manifest! No longer about affiliations or parishes or rabbinic law or hadith or what have you! Only the world community engaging with each other however they want, having a fruitful and loving conversation (that is not to say that nothing would be ever open to change and judgement, sometimes societal standards are there for good reasons). Perhaps I sound a lil crazy, but that's okay. I love you guys! I hardly even know you guys, yet you make my heart gush. Los todos poderes de Dios y Diosa celestiales tenga piedad por nosotros! Porque el Elohim omnipotente todos nos ama. Gracias por su atencion!
Nooo don't say that. I think the marvels that we as human have already discovered, are discovering and will discover are awe inspiring, and the prospect of continuing documentation, experimentation and understanding of our world as we head into the future is very exciting indeed.
Oh I totally agree. And I look forward to the continued exploration as something along the lines of furthering the glory and love of God. I know you rolled your eyes when I just said that, and I understand why. I was cynical of it for many years, and I still am. I am the first to bash the crazy Christians. Ooooo I'm appearing as one of those cheesy two bit Christians, and my spirituality is a lot more complicated than that. What I mean to say is this: sometimes the fantasy of belief is more truthful than reality.
"Militant atheism"? Where did that come from? I didn't see anyone lay claim to that particular title?
The closest thing I have to any kind of spirituality is music, but it's a pretty strong spirituality at that. When I'm feeling down, music either helps me feel better or validates what I'm feeling, and I've often related to song lyrics in a similar way to how people relate to prayers and chants; I just acknowledge that there's nothing supernatural about it. In fact, when you look at a not-uber-dogmatic religious person and a secularly spiritual person, sometimes the only difference between them is that one attributes their experiences to something supernatural and one does not. Often times they use different words to describe the same experiences and ideas, whether they know it or not.
Is that the only thing you pulled from that? It was a very minute end-rambling, not necessarily directed towards anyone. I would be lying if I hadn't've said, and I'd much rather be honest than tactful. Either way, I didn't start this thread to combat atheism versus secular spirituality versus religion. That wasn't the intent. Fanatics are assholes. We can all agree on that? I wanted this thread to simply have a discussion on the various spiritualities here. Thank you.
I'm an atheist, personally I don't care what others believe and think, they should be free to do it. Condition being that they keep it to themselves and not force their beliefs on others. I challenge people and myself to always question, question everything. My boyfriend is a pagan who grew up in a christian family and we get along great, we have religious/spiritual debates and cement further our personal beliefs and assertions.
Agreed. My concern was the use of 'militant'; and while I wholly agree that fanatics are a big problem; I could mention that it is the fanatics that cause us much grief; and those that let it slide don't aid in our issues either.
Well I do have to admit that just sounds like an Ice Cream Koan to me, but maybe that's because I have no spiritual inclinations at all.
I have found for me the pagan religions are my calling I am a studing Druidism and am also looking into Wicca these pagan religions are truly what inspires me.
I am a Christian and have been one since I was 10, though I was raised in a Christian family. I love going to my church (CofE) and youth groups and the community that there is in them. I don't know what I believe about other spiritual things, but I know that God will always walk with me and love me, and that gives me hope.
I am a spiritual person. Very spiritual. But not religious. I believe in the Christian God, worship Him with all I have, but have found my own way to Him and worship Him my own way, not within the constrictions of any church or denomination. If He has no problem with me, no one else has the right to have a problem with how I worship Him. At the same time, I respect that others have the right to their own beliefs.
yeah... but imma pull the 'free will' argument. You know, the one that says that a god would realise that life would be pointless and meaningless without the ability for people to decide things for themselves. You also seem to be confusing belief with 'being in something for what you can get out of it' - prayer is supposed to be performed in the faith that it will be heard, but not the expectation that it will be answered. The latter would be to reduce a deity to a menial servant. I strongly believe that any god worthy of the name would be primarily non-interventionist. Not necessarily absolutely so, but primarily.
I agree with the 'free will' argument. No one ever gets whatever they want if they don't try to get it. Prayer alone won't work. You have to pray and let Him(her?) work through you to get it done. That's what I believe.
i understand i never really thought of it that way, but my main point was i do not want to tie myself down to any religion or "faith" that permits me to do or be something i cant be by nature, especially when they claim to be correct then indoctrinate everyone into being clones of each other to receive god's blessing, but not only that, but to follow dogma's which perceive god as something to be feared, god is all loving and is an entity that should never be feared. spirituality teaches about love in it's most pure form, none of that bullcrap superficial stuff, just plain old good relationships with people and the environment, and also about being healthy and understanding, the way love should be.
But if we can say we have absolute free will, that god doesn't answer our prayers and god is non-interventionist, isn't it easier to just say there is no god rather than say there is a god but there is absolutely no evidence for its existence?
I fully apologise if this becomes rambling, dreamy, or clichéd; it is what I belive, though. He says so in the Bible, and although I do not take it all literally it is something that Jesus said. It is said in many places in both testaments – there are 6 pages of references for "love of God" when searched on BibleGateway – and God himself is love. I have heard from many people who I know and respect about what God has done in their lives; even when he did not change the situation, he answered their prayers and good came from what happened. He loves them. He loves the world, so much that he sent his only son to die a criminal's death and pay the price for sin, so that we can go to be with him in Heaven. And then there are the things he does in my life. I know that I am only 14 and haven't had overly hard times, but there are things like when I found out my parents were separating, I was in my room crying and asked him if he was there. For a second, I am certain that angels were around me and that I was somehow looking into Heaven, and although that faded all too soon he used it to tell me that he was carrying me all the way. That is the time that stands out to me, the only time I have felt like it. There have been other things too, the overwhelming peace when I needed it, the taking away of pain, and such like. He has said that he will never abandon me, and I have seen that through his work in the lives of myself and others. Even in all the suffering in this world, God is there and cries with those who are hurting. I know that most people on here will think things are my imagination, that the Bible is lies and I am a fool to belive any of it, that God does not exist, or things like that. I understand that and I don't want to preach at you. This is just what I belive and have experienced, and I don't know how to explain it properly.
