Transgender senior can't be king

Should it really matter? I mean its just a label so why not allow all to go for the crown?

 

I think we need to clear something up here. Is gender biology or psychology? If someone thinks it is biology, then Oak cannot and could never be the king, because a male requires a Y chromosome, which a female could never have. Even if she has a sex change, Oak will not be a biological male. If someone thinks gender is based in psychology, then she could be king or queen if she so wished. Nobody has posted anything that is wrong, it's just coming from a different perspective. And if someone does have a concrete definition on what gender means, let me know because I have no idea which one is right.

But can't we all just get along?(&&&)

 

Grr. I'm NOT going to quote every single idiodic comment posted in this thread.

First off. I'm REALLY disappointed in the school district. When the student body can be accepting of something and the administration can't is really sad.

SECOND, the students voted for him as king. Unless a student requests to be taken off, don't fucking interfere.
[i mention this because there are people who WILL nominate someone and vote f them for the sole purpose of making fun of them. -.- If i'm nominated for either i want it down]

Third, yes vote a boy for king and a girl for queen.
Don't vote a boy for fucking queen.

What does it matter what's in his pants? That doesn't change your gender.
And this is where the transphobia comments have already been said are about.
Insisting he's female, when he's not, is discriminatory and just rude for the sake of.

---------- Post added 30th Sep 2010 at 05:01 PM ----------

Okay. I've cooled off and feel a need to address this one

1. Yes, it's uneducated. If you called me a girl to my face knowing I'm not, I take that as reason to dislike you, if not have a bit of violence.
Kids, not condoning fighting. I'm just not exactly a calm person.
2. HE is not a SHE. Good god how hard is that concept?
3. No, not necessarily. Please at least attempt to understand the idea of "gender identity versus physical sex".
TL;DR version
Sex is what your body is, gender is between your ears (mental). They usually match, but not all the time, which is why we have transgender people. If someone has accepted that they are the opposite gender to their sex (that their trans), it's just as rude to call them their birth sex as it would be if I consistently called you a woman.

 

I'm not discriminating anyone. When it comes to gender for identification purposes, theres male and female, thats why it has to be listed on your ID. Until 'he' is actually a male, he is a she.

 

Usually I try to stay out of these kind of arguments, but this time I have to say I agree with Revan.

Yes he is legally still a she, so yes that would be against the schools rules. There's the problem; There shouldnt be rules like this in schools that limit in this way. Why does it matter if he has a vagina?

Revan is right when he says this is one of the reasons that things move slowly. Now Im not saying your transaphobic, but people who simply say "Those are the rules, and we should just follow them" make thing that much harder.

It's a matter of right and wrong, and if you think it is wrong for a male with a vagina to be the homecoming king, than maybe you should reevaluate your stance on all issues.

Things have always been this complicated, you probably just didnt notice because you were to drunk. (As in all your worries were about where you were going to pass out.)

--------------------------------------------------

I dont want anyone to think I am attacking them personally, I am just arguing based on the statements made in this thread.

 

I think it was wrong of the school to basically throw the results of the vote away simply because Oak's birth certificate doesn't say male. He won the vote legitimately. Shouldn't that count for something? Do the ballots count for anything? Up until the point of the results, they always treated him as a male. Why stop now?

On another note, my uncle is a transgender. He doesn't have XY chromosomes and he doesn't have male parts, but he is a male to me and always will be. I don't care that he doesn't meet the physical "requirements" to be a male. The outside shouldn't count for what's on the inside. It's not just a matter of how someone looks or what their DNA says. It's also how they FEEL. That should count for something.

 

What I don't get is why having a vagina is automatically equated with being a queen and having a penis automatically makes you a king! How long until society stops forcing gender to be immediately connected with your sex? It's nonsense and doesn't make one lick of sense. A male-identified person who never chooses to undergo surgery is a still a male-gendered person. Ditto the other way around. I understand that there are some trans people who are repulsed by their genitalia and I fully support their decision to change it as they see fit. But I'm tired of the notion that to be truly female or male, your pipes have to match the typical diagram. What utter phooey.

And shame on the school. Pretending to support someone until you have to actually support them is lame.

 

Because thats the definition of king and queen. What i hate is PC bullshit. Stuff like nursery rhymes being changed (baa baa rainbow sheep for one) because some people found it offensive. Its a song, deal with it. Gender is the same, you accept what you have, or you get surgery to identify as the other one, end of story.

If you want to enter 'competitions' open to men, get a sex change to a male.

 

Or really? Queen means royalty with a vagina? Because I thought it meant the wife of a king or a woman royal leader. Funny how they never mention sex organs in the definition.
Your definition of gender is so tangled up in the plumbing.
Yes. The sex female involves the reproductive system. But the gender female? That has to do with a whole other kettle of fish. Ditto for those of the male persuasion.

Go read up on your gender theory and take your head out of the sand.
Transgender =/= Transsexual

 

Ugh. Just because the school didn't let him be King doesn't mean they don't accept him. They are following the rules. Girls cannot be King. And it so happens that in his documents, he's still a girl.

And if you're arguing for the "Students voted for him so he has to be king" then I'll say "Californians voted for a ban on gay marriage so no gay marriage." You'll say the ban violates the Constitution, I'll say the students candidate violates school rules.

Until he is legally a male, he shouldn't expect everyone to treat him as such. I know how gender identity works and it sucks that he can't be king. I would be applauding the school if they let him be king but I still agree with their decision.

Gender identity is a sensitive issue. But there is a process for fixing what you don't like and it's called a sex change. That's been working so far but until someone goes through that procedure, legally, they are still the gender that is on their birth certificate.

bamaboy's POV is not uneducated. He's not transphobic. He's simply looking at this from a rule-abiding point of view. If you know the school still considers you a girl and you try to run for a boy's position, you can't expect them to let that happen.

 

I dont need to read up anything, you answered it for me. 'wife of a king' eg, female.
Thats what this thread is discussing, kings and queens (as much as i do agree some woman royalty do look like men....)

The 'prom king' is open to males. Not females who identify as men

 

Being a woman is not dependent on what is in my pants.
Being a man is not dependent on what is in my pants.
I am not a woman because I have a vagina.
You are not a man because you have a penis.
GENDER IS NOT DEPENDENT ON MY BIOLOGICAL SEX.
How many times do I have to repeat this until you wrap your thick skulls around the concept? I know this is a completely new and novel thing I'm trying to explain to you. You were raised in a world that genders everything. Sports are male. If you have a penis, you must like sports. Cooking is female. If you like cooking, you must have a vagina. But this is a false division that society has laid upon us. There is no division. Yes, there is feminine and masculine, but neither of these are dependent on the type of genitalia we happen to have. Gender is not black and white. And for that matter, neither is sex (if you've ever heard of intersexed people, you'll know what I mean). A gradient, a continuum, a gigantic graph with all sorts of variables, but it is not just female, male, vagina, penis.

We shouldn't force people who identify with other genders to get sex reassignment surgery. You know that they are extensive surgeries that can take away a lot of sensation? That they are expensive? That the end result can be defective? That some transgendered people DO NOT WANT to have a sex change because its not their sex they have a problem with, its their gender and how society perceives them? You think we should make a line where the only good trans people are the people who get sex reassignment surgery and that all other trans people are lesser than? Not worthy of our respect and us referring to them as their gender of "choice"?

Well then, if that is how you feel, let me say, "Go fuck yourself."

 

I refuse to get into an argument about it. No-one here said shit like 'you have a penis, so you have to like sports'.

I'm going to add you to my ignore list so we dont have this problem again . Everyone else in the thread with opposing view points (keeping in mind its an opinion thing, neither are right or wrong) managed to get their point across civilly.

 

Ah well. Another person ignoring me, another day, eh? No need to pay attention to another angry feminist, right? Maybe next time I'll be more 'ladylike'.
And you must not have read my rant properly considering I never accused anyone in this thread of saying "shit" like that. I accused society of gendering everything, including our biological sex. That is why people cannot divorce gender from sex in their minds. Because society says they aren't different. Well, society got it wrong. Hiding behind the 'Your Mileage May Vary' trope is not a valid way of supporting your opinion in this matter.

 

I'd like to ask everybody to please take fifteen minutes away from their keyboards, or else the thread is getting locked. Thank you.

Lex

 

Indrectly, you did. By stating that he cannot be king because he doesn't have a dick ('yet', however there is no statement to whether he meant top or bottom when talking about surgery) , you leave the statement that he's not male.
I'm not picking on you directly, but your post is what i caught on to that most directly states this that I didn't already mention.

Also Numfarh is being rather civil if you ask me....

 

First off, biological sex is not as cut-and-dried as some people are making it out to be. So unless you're advocating having every student submit to chromosomal analysis, it's time to abandon that line of argument.

Second, the idea that participation in any school-related function should rely on being able to prove what kind of genitalia you have is utterly daft. Anybody who can't see that is not a person whose opinion I'm going to be able to take seriously.

 

The thing that everyone is missing is this: SCHOOLS ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY. Period. They have policies they go by....you may disagree with them, but that is life. It's called reality...some people may need to look into it.

I freely admit that I don't understand those who have gender identity problems...which is why I asked the question. Does that mean that I have a problem with them? No...not at all.

Some people gave me some great insight....which I appreciate. I'm just trying to learn about this.

Some people...well...I just won't comment on.

Regardless, I've got a little more understanding on the situation. I don't completely understand it (sorry, just how I was brought up) but I've got a little more insight to it.

I still think the school was right.

 

Well, I am sorry you feel the urge to whip my ass...you may have your hands full with that one...but to each his own.

He is not a She....it is a hard concept for those that do not understand it....which is why I simply asked the question. I don't, which is why I asked. Is that wrong?

I simply think that gender is what nature gave you. Through medical science that can be changed for those that see the need to do so...and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people feel the need to do so, and I completely understand why....I simply don't understand the science behind it, that's all.

 

He isn't a male. He is 'listed' as a female on school records. When that changes (after the surgery no doubt) go for it

When the swear filter has to come into it, civil has gone.....