Older guys

Oh it would totally depend on the guy. If you're a little uncomfortable, though, it's probably better to trust your instincts and not do it. Even if his intentions are completely innocent, better safe than sorry. Maybe spend more time getting to know him without being in a situation where you're at a disadvantage. Not all older people are out to take advantage of younger ones but it pays to spend time honing your instincts so you can weed out the (hopefully extremely rare) ones who might be.

It's totally okay to hang out with anyone you want--you just have to be sensible about it. I definitely think it's better to start out being over-cautious than jumping in without looking first, though.

 

Well, this guy sounds a bit suspicious. I mean like if this guy was 18 even i'd say keep your guard up but give it a try, but like 18+...i think that you should really stay away from this guy. Even though making a friend is nice and having someone to take you places, i have to do the right thing in warning you this guy sounds extremely shady. I mean look at what you just old us.

Seems like a fairly steamy first place to get together, dont you think. I mean there are undeniable sexual tensions on a beach how do you know this guy isnt just trying to get you half nude in swimwear. Which as i said if it was even someone within 4 years of your age, it'd be to a degree of innoncent (over 17 it kinda gets a little shady, and even then im pushing the bar).

Someone holding the door for you is nice, someone offering for you to take their place in the lunch line is nice...a perfect stranger offering to give a underage forgeiner a ride to "the beach" in his car...isnt nice...its shady and as a caring human being i cant pretend that this doesnt seem VERY suspicious. I mean this guy could take you anywhere for however long and nobody would really realise it until he's already furfilled his intention if any (but this guy sounds too suspicious to just want to play a game of cards and have small talk)

You'd be surprised how a small but young form such as yourself could look like a porn star to some 25 or 30 year old creep. They dont care what you look like they're just an addict looking for their next fix. And to some, sex with an older man or any man might sound good right about now...but where does violent rape sound.

Ok no offense, but you really have that whole teen-invincibility complex dont you? Ok maybe in a fist fight, you could pull the lucky straw and come out alive...what if this guy hypothetically is looking to harm you and isnt gonna play fair...how do you match up against guns or knives?

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Its your freedom to choose what you want to do...but you can make plenty of friends your age in Australia too...they might not be able to drive you places, but is the bus really a huge downside as compared to all the possiblities listed above.

And its not out of the question that kids you age or slighty older could have sexually-violent intentions with you too...but its less likely and you have a better chance of defending yourself and if they are around your age...you probably will rather consent in sexual activity rather than be opposed :icon_wink . Terribly sorry to sound motherish but i cant pretend not to care about what happens to you or any member of this forum.

 

Thank you Proud for saving me a load of typeing

 

I agree with joey, spend some more time with him in public places so you can get to know him and make sure he is some one you can trust while staying relatively safe, and even after you think you can trust him be cautious, like let someone know where you are going before getting into his car or going to his house or meeting up with him in public places and not some sketchy back alley (though if he ever does try to get you into a sketchy back alley, run.). as for the beach thing, it sounds ok, just take the bus and stay where there are other people around.

and remeber, violent crimes are no fun for anyone.

 

Not at all. I know two people who have been in similar situations and both felt they were used once the older guy got his way and disppeared. If someone is showing you attention it's difficult not to be taken in by it, especially if you have no reason to believe his motives are not as they appear.

The good thing is that by posting here you have avoided that sort of situation, and hopefully some other people will read this and take note too.

 

I just think it's worth reiterating that a lot of the caution voiced in certain posts in this thread is nothing more than pure regurgitation of pretty harmful stereotypes that basically imply older people can never have innocent intentions when it comes to younger people. That's bullshit. And as for the supposed safety of the "close in age" thing? I'm pretty sure a 19-year-old with a gun or a knife is just as dangerous as a 40-year-old or a 50-year-old with one too.

There is no correlation between age and, well, for lack of a better term, "corruption" or "tendency to do evil." Every situation has to be judged individually and so while it's definitely sensible to say "play it safe," it's ridiculous to imply that a teenager could never be friends with an adult (of any age) or that an adult would never get anything out of a friendship with someone younger (that wasn't sordid and dirty). When I was in my teens, a lot of my people my parents' age would talk to me "like a real person" and I really appreciated that. I wouldn't necessarily get in the car of one of them who I didn't know all that well but I certainly wouldn't assume beyond a shadow of a doubt that if they offered to hang out with me, they had their own dark purposes for it.

Haven't you people ever heard of mentoring? The stupid dumbass stereotype that all older gay men are predators is exactly what leaves younger gay men without any kind of mentoring from their elders. Of course some older gay men are predators, just like some older straight men are and some older straight women are, as are I'm sure older lesbian women. But that's some, not all, and I suspect not even close to "most."

 

Hey Willie. I'm sorry dude, but I really want to warn you against this situation. I know you're probably a smart guy, and it's great that you posted in here about it. The reason I think you shouldn't be hanging out with him is the same thing you're kind of thinking -- "maybe he wants something else".

This guy is too old to be organising to meet up with you. Most adults that age wouldn't give you their phone number unless he was interested in you for the wrong reasons. This guy probably can't believe his luck. I know you don't really want to hear this, but if he is a paedophile (which it sounds like he is), he'll probably become really close friends with you first. As your friendship gets stronger, he'll start doing really little things that might make you feel uncomfortable , but not too uncomfortable (eg taking photos for no reason, putting his hand on your shoulder, then your leg etc) .. and he'll keep pushing the boundaries until he gets what he wants. Think about the idea he had about taking you to the beach -- what will you be wearing to the beach? You know how you felt when you wrote " But maybe he wants something else, I dunno. "? He'll constantly keep you on the edge of that feeling while he gauges far he can push it. To answer your question, I don't think him offering to take you to the beach is a good idea. I think that's just his plan so he can see you in your speedos, in the beach shower, who knows. Please be cautious of his ideas.

You're in it for the right reasons, because adults usually ignore you and you don't want sex. Unfortunatly, I want to let you know that my alarm bells are going off in my head saying that this guy is really bad news. Meeting you at a bus stop, giving you his number, and asking you to the beach -- it's not something most adults would do, unless they wanted to you for the wrong reasons.

I'd suggest that you should forget about this guy, or at least not talk to him away from bus stop, and don't accept his invitations to go to other places. Never go to his house. And if you ignore everything I've said, please at least tell your parents, an auntie/uncle, or at least a friend about this guy and give them the phone number he gave you if you go somewhere with him.

I know you just want an adult friend, but I fear that this guy is bad news. I was in your situation once too, and it ended badly. Please consider what I have to say. Above all, I don't think you're a dopey kid. I was a smart kid too. Hope you're going well, and I'd be cool if you posted back.

 

I agree with some of what you're saying, conceptually at least. Society only wants to see things in black and white, and reality isn't like that. It's unfortunate by-product of our fear of child abuse that many men don't feel like they can interact with their children in public, become male teachers, or mentors to kids/teens that aren't their own.

However, I've also noticed the propensity in forums for people to use the moment where a kid/teen comes forward to ask for advice as their moment to go for a moral crusade and say "sure, go for it, not all adults are as bad and nasty as what they say".

In my response above, I read and evaluated the first post with an open mind. But the following facts of the post, as I said, had alarm bells ringing:

1. He met him at a bus stop; a complete stranger - Ok, statistically abuse is from someone "known" by the family, but that doesn't negate the oddity in this situation. Still, it might have been ok except ...
2. The man gave him his phone number - This confirmed it for me. I'm curious to know how quickly this happened. It sounds like it was the first meeting. This man isn't interested in meeting the parents; asking for permission to take him out? Instead he offers a direct communication with the kid.
3. The man offered to take him to the beach - Ok, I don't need to explain too much here, except that it suggests this guy is particually brazen. As we all know, it creates a situation where partial nudity is introduced, and opens doors for the Man to play with the suggestability of Willie. Showers, sunscreen, ice creams, and an extremely informal environment that breaks down barriers for the Man.

Now, if he were truely wanting to be a mentor, why would he accelerate it so quickly to these kinds of environments?

"I think hes just being nice cos he knows Im away from home and I dont have anyone to take me places, but I dunno about getting in his car." (Willie)

Once again, I understand and believe in what you're saying joey. But please don't let that blind you from what is happening in this situation. Please don't try to repair the unfortunate state of older guy/younger guy perceptions by pushing this kid into the hands of a paedophile. You have to approach each situation objectely, away from your views and agendas, and evaluate according to the evidence in the specific situation.

I saw a similar situation on ### recently; an 18 year old writes in confused saying he met this 48 year old who was "smart n funny, really nice", and he was back at his place one night when the man asked if he wanted a kiss to see what it felt like or whatever. The 18 year old said it got "really uncomfortable and left" and wrote in for advice, saying "i feel wierd about it". Though he got some posts saying "don't do it if you feel wierd about it", he got alot of "stop generalising and perpetuating sterotypes, older & younger works out lots of times", completely disregarding the specific thread, and the clear evidence in it. The 18 year olds final post was depressing as hell, saying he felt like the man didn't care about him, he felt used, it hurt, oh and the man wants to see him again and "acts all dissapointed and stuff so i feel bad" whenever he says he can't meet him. This, from the same guy who was funny, nice, caring etc? These men start with friendship, then onto suggestion, then the use and abuse these kids. These are not the indicators of a older/younger mentor relationship. They're not even the indicators of a worthwhile older/younger sexual relationship. It really hurts me to read things that have clear indicators in them, that are hijacked by a desire to push the opposite agenda. Knowing that this might convince the poster, who is in a period of indecision, to go ahead and make a mistake, aches my heart. Now, my boyfriend is 7 years older than me, I'm not agist. But I'm also not blinding myself for the sake of older/younger acceptance. Sorry if this was a little emotional, but it really gets to me right in my heart.

 

Joey you're right this guy could truly just want a friend and be a nice person and drive Willie around town. And each situation has to be judged individually, and if i knew Willie in person and this were the real world not a forum, i'd ask Willie to introduce this guy and look for red flags...but we can only judge this guy from what we are hearing here...

Willie came looking for our opinion, he gave what information he could, and from what i've heard, this character is shady and i've drawn my conclusion, in no way did i indicate that i was 100% right and he's a pedophile without a doubt. I just told Willie that this guy seems shady and i vote against seeing him again.

And im not biased by "social acceptability" or sterotypes. I'm just going by red flags:

Met at a bus stop-Ok, maybe by chance this adult happened to be there in the right place at the right time...or stalk out victims at a frequent method of public transportation where he could potentially find victims easily and probably without parents.

How easily the adult in question offered his services and personal telephone number-Ok, maybe this guy is just trying to do a good deed or be nice. But to an underage teenager who from my understanding hasn't asked a guardian AND on their first meeting.

The beach-Ok, maybe this guy just wants Willie to enjoy the beauty of Aussie beaches. But a bit sudden, and an odd place to have the second meeting. Very intimate and sensual. I'd hope that at least this, joey, you'd see a red flag.

The urge to form a friendship of mutual companionship with someone not even half his age-Although i see nothing wrong with adult and teen friendships, someone with 40 would've been raised in an environnment where "social acceptability" was instituted. There's a chance this man is just open and enlightened...but i can't risk that for Willie's safety.

BOTTOM LINE....he asked, we judge, you disagreed, Willie will make his conclusion as to what to do, end of story.

 

Hiya,

Okay... maybe I missed some things that are fishy. I'm actually not trying to push an agenda, though--I'm trying to push back against one, actually, the one about all older gay guys being pedophiles. And at least in jake83's case, I don't think I'm the only one who's speaking from a biased point of view (that is, obviously it would be exceptionally difficult to see this kind of situation as anything but extremely bad news if you'd been taken advantage of by an older guy when you yourself were a boy).

That being said, obviously being safer is better than being sorry, and maybe after I said that originally it got lost when I got annoyed when a lot of people immediately assumed the situation was inherently bad. But now that the red flags have been pointed out specifically, I can see that it wasn't baseless assumption going on. I just always want to believe the best about people and the reason that hasn't got me into bad situations (I believe--I guess it would be difficult to "prove") is because I'm lucky enough to have developed good instincts, so although I might want to believe the best, I think I'm pretty cautious overall and so have gone through life relatively unscathed.

 

Hey Willie
Thanks for writing back. You've asked some really good questions, though it's a little tough to answer them. But I think it's amazing that you'd write up and ask for advice about this guy. It shows that you're a smart kid.

I know this is really long, but I've thought this post through and I'd appreciate it if you read it. It might help you out.

Firstly, you've written a couple of times about how you don't really know why he's hanging around with you. I want to mention a couple of things you've written, and if you can, have a look at how these beliefs you have might be stopping you from seeing the whole picture. You say that you don't think you're hot, so I think what you're saying is that you don't believe that others can find you hot. Dude, that's a big mistake. You're a good looking kid. Do you see how, because you think that, you're assuming he thinks that too? He's told you how "hot" you would be with girls. What do you think he means when he says that? He's trying to tell you he finds you attractive, while speaking your language, talking about girls. He's manipulating you, man. No self respecting adult would say that to you unless he has other ideas. The truth is, he's trying to open that kind of conversation with you in a really comfortable way. You might find that he really likes it when you talk about how you feel about girls. Eventually that might progess into talk about what you want to do with girls, or boys, and that might lead into the kind of things that can be done. He'll create an environment where you feel like you can talk to him about anything, and once you trust him enough to talk about sex, he'll push you a little more.

I want you to see how your biggest enemy is how you can't believe how a guy like him would want to hang out with a kid like you. I completely understand what you're saying, but I want you to know that your thinking like that because you can't comprehend his intentions. You're a smart kid, and its really cool that you are questioning it. It's a good point -- WHY would he want to hang out with you? Even though you say you're not that interesting, you haven't travelled much and all of that, you're thinking, this guy *still* wants to hang out with me! I know what you're saying. There's two options, and you really need to consider both. He could just be a friend, or it could be something more to him. Your suprise at him wanting to hang out with you, and your self esteem, is working against you here. He's playing right into it, pretending to be really interested in what you have to say, and being funny and all the things he knows you'll find good in a guy that age. He's playing the role of "your favourite uncle", while he gradually drops in things like how hot you would be with a girl, to open the doors while still not getting you suspicious. He's a couple of steps ahead of you, which makes it hard to see whats going on.

You know how you wrote about how adults tend to ignore kids your age? Let me tell you why. It's hard to be an adult and talk to kids, because when you're an adult, the topic of child abuse is very real. That makes adults really careful about what they say to kids. That makes it easier for you to tell the difference between an adult who genuinely cares for you, and one who keeps making "jokes" and asks you to come with him to places where he'll get to see you with your shirt off, and loads of other little hints that you need to start looking for and becoming wise to. Adults sometimes are perceived as being pedophiles when they're not, and do you know why? Because the "tactics" of a pedophile are a lot more subtle than you think. They're not old men in raincoats hiding in alleys. And I'm telling you now, the Man you've been hanging around sounds like he is playing out the CLASSIC pedophile behavior. He's getting you to think that he just wants to be your friend, while he tries to go over your head and build trust, and create a different kind of friendship to what you have in mind. Because of men like this, adults are very careful in what they say to kids your age. This man is NOT, and that's for a reason. He knows you're away from your parents. You're actually in a quite vunerable situation, and he knows it. He knows that you probably miss your parents, you might miss having a dad, and he'll play right on that. This makes it hard to see whats going on.

But read the stuff that we outlined for you above. Please believe me when I say these are very, very big red flags. Because he gave you his number, asked you to the beach, and now he's making "jokes", and he's a stranger .. all of these things combined; I can honestly say this to you: IF THIS MAN WAS NOT A PEDOPHILE, HE WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ALL OF THESE THINGS.

Finally I'll explain to you about why he'd be interested in you wearing speedos to the beach. I want you to think about how in this thread, we've all talked about how it is "sexual", "sensual", all kinds of words. We didn't even need to debate it, we all just knew. That might be because we're a bit older. But we knew straight away, that that was wierd. Now, you might not see it because you see guys your age nude all the time, and you don't think you're too good looking .. but you're thinking down the wrong path. He doesn't think like you, at all. For this man, you're his perfect type. He likes kids your age, and he likes kids that look like you. He would be loving that you're away from your parents, and you're missing adult friendships. He doesn't think like you Willie. As long as you try to understand his behavior through your thoughts, he'll keep manipulating you. He's a total stranger --you don't know anything about him, or anything about the way he thinks. I'm 23 now, and I've had the experience to learn these things. I'm really good at reading peoples intentions, and you'll be able to do it when you're my age too. But for now, everyone in this thread is telling you that there are big "red flags" and "alarm bells". I'll say it again, you can't tell a pedophile straight away. It's difficult to tell, because they're very slow and manipulative. Now, manipulative means that YOU CAN'T TELL. That's what manipulation is. You really have to be looking.

Finally, I want to ask you a question. If you think there's nothing wrong with this guy still, then I please ask you to consider telling an adult you trust about him. Do you have a favourite teacher? Or an adult at the school you feel you can trust? Please consider telling them about him. Don't be embarrassed, or scared. I guarentee you that they will tell you how mature and smart you are for telling them about him. What do you have to lose? It could be really good to talk to them about it.

Anyway, thanks for reading this, and once again good on you for asking for advice. I hope you're doing really well. And remember, this forum is always here for you whenever you want to talk about anything. We all care for you here and we'll try and help you out when you have problems or questions about anything at all.

- jake

 

Well i'm noy going to stop you from seeing this guy simply because we can't, in the end you will do what you do because we're a just cyber people who really have no control over you. But i hope you read these words very carefully, and know what i say is not stretched truth.

You might not think you look like much, but if this guy is a pedophile, he wont care.

He's not intending to look at your face...and quite frankly put, he only wants two things, probably one:
Genitalia
Buttocks

Most pedophiles dont give a rats ass what you look like, as long as you have the two body parts listed above (bless you if you don't), he's (again sorry for the crude language, but it contributes to the point) "going to town".

You may see boys naked at school, and perhaps you do have self control and keep to yourself...but this 30 and 40 year old doesn't sound like he has a partner for sex, male or female, so he's probably off the screen when it comes to the desire for sexual release. This guy would go off the walls for a real life human being to be next to him in speedos, i can tell you from expierence porn and masturbation gets old real quick, this guy's looking for the real thing...and he dont give a shit if you're a supermodel or not.

Ok, even if you do go to the beach with this guy, by bus (his car is way to risky obviously), ok he can't do anything there it's a public place. He can touch you, and if he's really into this, he might even threaten to hurt you if you reject with a knife he has hidden somewhere (unlikely but very possible), despite the crowd.

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Willie, this is the last time i'll lecture you because it seems you've already heard enough and made your decision...but in summary, there are alot of risks to even the most "safe" situations, this guy could not only be a pedophile, but a serial rapist & murderer.

The beach, is a tad "safe", but it encourages him that he's got you hooked, if in fact he's a pedophile. If he suggests you go when no one or few people are present, reject immediately, cuz' this is just too obvious. If you sincerely want to go, go druing peak hours and look for more red flags....they should be programmed into your instincts.

Blessed be and here's to hope.

 

I definitely agree with proud, what you do is what you do and theres nothing our keyboards can do about it. But he also left out one thing, you are not bad looking and seem just like his, or any other pedophile's type so you can't rely on your "ugly" looks to potentially diverty him. Also, I'd suggest that, if you choose to go to the beach, wear swim trunks instead of speedos and wear a shirt whenever possible, if he really is intent on advancing on you this isnt going to do much, however it will be much less inviting for him and, if you go at peak hours and stay in a crowded area like proud said, you will be in no more danger from his advances than you would be in a restaurant or other public place. The only difference would be that you probably wouldn't know the area and, if the situation got really drastic, you wouldn't know where to go for help.

 

Hey Willie

That sounds good. I think what you've just said about how he should be ok with going to cafes to chat is a great point. It's a good idea not to go to the beach with him. Just stay in public areas like Maccas and cafes while you get to know him better, and don't ignore any "red flags". It's cool to see you listening to the advice of don't get in a strangers car -- its a really good thing to listen to. Also, don't let him try and convince you that it's alright to go in his car, house, or a non-public area and all of that .. go to the beat of your own drum. Just make excuses to leave if it gets too wierd.