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General News Your thoughts on Bernie Sanders political revolution.

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Carpe noctem 16, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. greatwhale

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    Bernie has made the point that a political revolution has already happened, it came with the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980, and has continued ever since.

    In 1992, when Bill Clinton came to power, he basically continued in that vein, and actually entrenched the current Neo-liberal policies that have basically caused the mess that exists at present. A classical example of the politics of irony: that only a Democrat could push through such measures. Hence, today there really is no fundamental difference between the two traditional parties...neither of them respond to the will of the people.
     
  2. AwesomGaytheist

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    When in doubt, claim the other side cheated. Funny how after the 2012 election, Republicans said the exact same thing. "We didn't lose, they cheated!" There won't be a brokered convention, though I do expect Sanders to go all the way to the convention and give a grandstanding speech at the DNC just like Ted Kennedy did in 1980.

    As I've said before, now is the time to unite as a party and move forward toward victory in 2016. We cannot afford to lose this election. United we win, divided we lose. The ball is in Sanders and his supporters' court. If Sanders cared about the Democratic Party's best interests at this point, he would give a concession speech and campaign with Clinton, just like Hillary Clinton did for Obama in 2008.
     
  3. greatwhale

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    I find it astounding, really incredibly astounding that the two leading contenders both have very high unfavorability ratings: Hillary is at 55.6% and Trump is at 63.7% if ever there was evidence that this whole insane primary process is out of touch with the will of the people, there it is.
     
  4. Carpe noctem 16

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    Very well said!

    I wonder if money has anything to do with it??

    America is quick to go to other countries and sell the idea of Democracy while her in America there nothing Democratic at all. I also have to agree with you on the fact that neither party really cares about Americans. The only person that does is Bernie.
     
  5. tscott

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    Senator Clinton is despised for any number of reasons. As First Lady the money grab at the end of her husband's presidency was obscene. No president in recent history has retained the gifts the Clintons have. Her involvement in so many scandals and the fact she may yet be indicted yet. Her arrogance and sense of entitlement are legendary. Her ties to banks and Wall Street. you thought congress would not work with Obama wait and see how they'll block her. She is our own ersatz Eva Peron...without the style. There is a lot to dislike about the woman. I wouldn't want her for a neighbor or her family.

    If Bernie battles on we may have a divided convention which could be good for those opposed to Senator Clinton. As for New York, don't read too much into Sander's defeat. New York City dominates our government. Upstate and Western New York cannot compete. Senator Clinton carried New York City; she did not carry the rest of New York. Many New Yorkers do not look at her as our Senator, but as an interloper, an opportunist.

    People also get to get over this notion of the conventions as a part of government. Political parties are private clubs with rules they can make up as they go, hence, super delegates. Let's not kid ourselves that we have any real power. That's why supporting a candidate like Senator Sanders is so important.
     
  6. Simple Thoughts

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    I don't care about party unity honestly. I'm sure Sanders does, and a lot of his supporters are already talking about 'biting the clinton bullet' so I mean good for them. Me personally, I won't vote for her ever. I'll probably stay home rather than support someone I know is corrupt. On the issues that matter most right now she's just flat out wrong. She won't break up the banks, she won't get rid of citizens united, she refuses to call out Israel in Gaza, her foreign policy is terrible, and you honestly can't be entirely sure what she stands for because of how often her views change.

    I'm sick and tired of our only voting choice being the lesser of two evils. We needed someone like Sanders, but the American people apparently thought the queen of corruption was a better choice.
     
  7. Austin

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    A lot of Sander's supporters are independents who don't give a crap about the Democratic Party. I know that I don't. I have some sense of satisfaction knowing I won't ever vote for Hillary. :slight_smile:
     
  8. Simple Thoughts

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    Welcome to the club. I don't like drawing party lines to be honest. I think it's stupid and blinds people to the truth sometimes.
     
  9. Libertino

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    And that's precisely part of the problem. In states like New York, where you must be a registered Democrat to vote, Hillary does better. Personally I can't stand "closed primaries". I wonder if the results of any of these states' primaries would've been significantly different if they hadn't been closed.
     
  10. greatwhale

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    The most interesting thing about this process is the general decline in either republican or democrat affiliation.

    In a January, 2016 survey, independents constitute 42% of the electorate, vs. 29% democrat and 26% republican. Here's the kicker: Bernie gets between 50 and 70% of the independent vote, here's an analysis:

    When independents are allowed to vote in primaries, Bernie wins by a much higher vote spread than the spread when he loses to Clinton. Clinton won in New York while excluding 3 million independent voters.

    As far as I know, the general elections are not closed to independents...
     
    #70 greatwhale, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
  11. Simple Thoughts

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    Yeah sadly Sanders won't make it to the general which is good for Trump, bad for America.

    Sanders consistently polled a million times better than Clinton against all the republicans. He would've swept the floor with any of them and been president. He actually did surprisingly well with the rigged elections and huge media bias against him. He barely got any press coverage at all compared to Clinton and especially Trump.
     
  12. Skaros

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    It's partially why Bernie Sanders had such an unexpected win in Michigan. Clinton was leading in the polls by as much as 20 points. He got the independent vote. I actually know an independent voter from Michigan who hates Hillary but really likes Bernie.

    In New Hampshire, Democrats voted 50/50 for Bernie or Hillary, but Bernie got 72% of the independents that voted in the Democratic primary.

    I really don't know why parties have them closed. I guess if you have semi-open primaries, where the opposite party can't vote in your primary, that would be fair, but I don't see why they keep independent voters out. You need the independent vote in a general election.
     
    #72 Skaros, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
  13. Austin

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    Exactly. If they want to win the general election I feel like they should listen to the input from independents.
     
  14. Simple Thoughts

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    Honestly I wish I had some influence and a real voice because at this point I feel like we need a big movement from the independents to bring back the 3 party system.
     
  15. KaySee

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    Sanders' changes are/will be revolutionary and he has brought up important issues.

    Sanders isn't out of the race, so don't discount him just yet. He isn't a bought politician, keeps his stances, and is seems reasonable. I have yet to find these qualities in other candidates. I agree with almost all his stances and the points he has brought up.
     
  16. Ashley2103

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    I don't agree with Sanders, but I would rather see him win than Hillary or Trump. I say this because Sanders comes across as the most honest.
     
  17. Simple Thoughts

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    Well one of the Koch brothers may be supporting Clinton

    Interviewer: You couldn't see yourself supporting Hilary Clinton, could you?

    Koch Brother: Well..I..her...we would have to believe her actions would be quite different than her rhetoric. Let me put it that way.
     
  18. greatwhale

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    As they say: with friends like that, who needs enemies? Nevertheless, that is one precious little nugget of truth from this Koch brother...
     
  19. Simple Thoughts

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    I think it's pretty telling about her.

    It was funny hearing a Hillary shill on CNN try to make the argument that it was a Koch brother conspiracy to turn her base against her. That was hilarious x3
     
  20. tscott

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    It is unfortunate so much of Senator Clinton's past is ancient history to so many or rather conveniently forgotten by others. There has never to my knowledge been such a grasping political as the Clinton's to have come out a democratic republic. It would in no way surprise me to find she's in bed with the Koch brothers. Expedience is could easily be her credo.