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You can get a kid to do just about anything if you threaten him/her physically & psychologically.

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by brainwashed, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. brainwashed

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    Article title:
    Twenty-three abducted children, aged from 3 months to 15 years, rescued from a house in southern Mexico
    (I'm putting this article here because of the nature of my comments which are below.)
    From the article:
    forced to work selling handicrafts under threat of "physical and psychological violence,"

    A massive amount of "I'm gay" suppression comes from the enviroment when growing up. Here's an article about children being abducted and basically brainwashed into submission - it's easy to get ones arms around the Mexican children story. Really not all that different than many of us who suppressed our innate sexuality when growing up - not easy to get one's arms around. But the "mechanics" are the same in both cases.

    Link:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/22/americas/abducted-children-rescue-mexico-scli-intl/index.html
     
    #1 brainwashed, Jul 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  2. mellissa

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    So I read the article and although I agree with your claims, I think that a lot of LGBT suppression come from within. For example, I think that many people suppress this part of themselves due to society instead of a direct influencers like abusive parents/adults.
     
  3. OnTheHighway

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    I think you articulated two points that together go to support what Brainwashed is reflecting and where you suggget it comes from within, it is a result of external factors. Please let me explain if you will. First is the cause “due to society” as you yourself reflect. Where society requires socialization and socialization is accomplished though the teachings and messaging of a heternormative script. The heteronormative script reflects that life should be lived between a man and a woman. We are bombarded with this message through all aspects of life: Family, Friends, Religion, Media (TV, Movies, Advertisments). Therefore, second, the messaging in of itself is a form of emotional abuse (and sometimes physical abuses by others) which instills insecurities resulting in low self esteem and self respect by those who are unable to live according to the script. While it comes from within, there is a direct cause and effect where the cause is external factors and the within is the building of an emotional wall to protect ourselves from such external factors. Whether the influencers are direct (parents/adults) or indirect (the broader heternormative script), the end result is the same.
     
  4. mellissa

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    I agree. I think we are talking about the same thing. I think that when I read your title about physical and psychological abuse, I automatically assumed that the abuse was from members of the victims inner circle such as family and close friends.
     
  5. brainwashed

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    Interesting reply. Thank you @Melissa. Do you think suppression can come from within even though a person (me when growing up for example) knows nothing about gay matters and/or not knowing he/she is gay?
     
  6. brainwashed

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    This casual post has actually turned out to be quite informative and the timing is perfect. Why is the timing perfect? See below.

    I've taken myself back to when I was 13, 14 and attended summer camp. Will not go into details but there was an incident where I felt "massively inferior" to some of my camp cabin mates. I've never understood why I felt this way. The camp cabin mates, very cute guys by the way, where talking about girlfriends and masturbating. Although I was actively masturbating at the time, I wasn't fantasizing about girls, my fantasies were about boys. (oh and did I mention they were very cute guys?)

    Heavy, but I'm following ya so far.

    Physical abuse came when 15 & 16. I'm still following ya.

    Although I have no conscious recollection of low self esteem and low self respect when young, subconsciously I was delightfully (not) reminded that I was inferior and wrong via a couple of recent flashbacks - flashbacks, curled up on the floor in fetal position, crying, recalling horrific event(s) from my past.

    Agree
     
    #6 brainwashed, Jul 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  7. OnTheHighway

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    Brainwashed, I think if we are exposed to either emotional or physical abuse at an early age, regardless if such abuse was related to our sexuality or some other explanation (addiction, emotional issues, etc), then a foundation of low self respect and low confidence may develop. As we continue to develop, we are doing so with the wrong foundation where we should be nurtured and confidence instilled in us. So as we are confronted with further challenges (in this case our sexuality which goes against the heteronormative script) it should not come as a surprise that our subconscious seeks to provide protection. Whether the protection is in the form of an emotional wall or suppression, the subconscious requires our low self worth and self esteem is protected. I do not see this as a conscious decision that we make (and I am no expert in therapy or an understanding of how the mind really works), but as a way for our minds to allow us to survive.
     
    #7 OnTheHighway, Jul 29, 2020
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  8. brainwashed

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    This subject, scripting, cause and effect is very interesting and one I will ponder for for the foreseeable future. I personally know three gay men now that knew they were gay when 12, 13 ish. I am dismayed how relaxed they are when talking about being gay when growing up and their teen years. There clearly is a difference in their confidence level.
     
  9. OnTheHighway

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    As well, I was not aware that I had low self esteem or self worth. I always projected confidence. But such projection was a false sense of worth. I was able to get away with it because I put all my thought and emotions into my career where I excelled. But man was it a slap in the face when I actually realized I previously lacked self respect and wasn't able to look myself in a mirror.
     
  10. OnTheHighway

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    When a person is raised with a strong foundation of love and support, is nurtured in their developmental years and allowed to express themselves freely, such person builds confidence and self respect. That foundation then allows someone to live their truth without shame or fear.
     
  11. brainwashed

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    Survival mechanism(s). Bingo.

    Lol, and by the way did I tell you they were very cute?
     
  12. OnTheHighway

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    lol, you did!
     
  13. brainwashed

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    Slight change in subject, recently I have been reading about cognitive learning and cognitive learning level(s). Interesting subject. The possibility of tarnished learning is something @Chip mentioned (I think) in a past post, a past post I cannot find at this moment. The question came up in the past post and now for that matter, is a person's learning and emotional development tarnished/harmed by lets say conversion therapy and/or in the case of points made in posts in this thread, social scripting? (few) From my reading and interpretation so far, the answer is yes, yes a person's learning level can be damaged. (few)
     
  14. OnTheHighway

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    Thats essentially what I am suggested and what I perceive. I see a clear delineation when I compare people I meet that have a supportive upbringing and those that faced emotional trauma of one form or another. Its too much to reflect in this thread, but based on my own personal experience as well as the experiences of others that I encounter, I do believe emotional trauma in our early development years create the wrong foundation to develop in a positive way both emotionally and intellectually.
     
    #14 OnTheHighway, Jul 29, 2020
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  15. brainwashed

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    Agree 100%. This is a subject I'm researching at this time. (and still looking for that post from @Chip)
     
  16. OnTheHighway

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    In re reading the thread I want to add one very important perspective. With introspection, often with the assistance of trained experts (therapists) and brainstorming amongst friends and acquaintances (such as EC), I am confident that we can re-wire our brain and turn the personal impact of such early childhood traumas on its head. As humans we have an ability to adjust, respond and evolve and we can rebuild our emotional foundation in a way that allows us to embrace our truths and live our lives authentically.

    I firmly believe we can minimize or even eliminate the emotional impediments that developed from being victimized; thereafter we recover and grow with the ability to find happiness, contentment and joy.
     
    #16 OnTheHighway, Jul 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020