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Who do you endorse for president in 2020?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Andrew99, May 4, 2019.

  1. Tightrope

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    This is an ugly truth and possibility that many of us harbor. Your post is well written.

    It's also that he's the incumbent. If a minor recession came along - sadly, people do get hurt in those - it could diminish the likelihood of it happening. I know our government is corrupt, as all of them are, but Trump raises the bar.
     
    #41 Tightrope, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  2. Dionysios

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    I can't think of a more controversial president since Andrew Jackson. Even President Nixon had more class and integrity than Trump.
     
  3. Shorthaul

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    I'm also liking going to upset some people, but Trump partly won because he hadn't been in office as long as everyone who ran against him.

    If you are voting for someone who has been in office for more than thirty years, and is still campaigning on the same platform every election for those thirty years; it should be pretty clear they don't give a shit about you.

    Even that right wing nut job Rush points out that neither the Republican or Democrat party can afford for Trump to have any success what so ever. If a man who has never been in politics, is successful, all of these life long politicians will be voted out of office because people will see that they only care about votes to keep their political job.

    I don't agree with all of Trump's policies and tactics, but the fact he has gotten all of those old fuckers up in arms and freaking out because an outsider got elected President is a positive; because its shows just how much they care about their position more than they care about the people that voted for them.

    What we really need is term limits for the House and Senate. Politicians and diapers should be changed often, for the same reason.
     
  4. Chip

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    In the same breath where I am unequivocally in favor of whomever can best sell to the heartland... I must also admit I never in a million years expected that Obama would get the nomination, or would win. I mean, a black guy, very liberal, with a 'funny' first name, whose middle name is Hussein. Who would have expected he could sell himself to the heartland and get re-elected? So crazy things are possible. But Trump is a crook in every cell of his body, and the Repubs supporting him are completely corrupt... so we are getting closer and closer to a banana republic with sham, rigged elections. And the fact that many folks are more worried about wanting the most liberal possible candidate that will benefit them, instead of, essentially, preserving our democracy, is simply astounding to me.

    I also share Dionysios' concerns that a Trump re-election is a distinct possibility, and that's another reason why we must, must, must focus 100% on getting somebody, anybody, who is an electable Dem on the ballot, and without a bruising primary. But I doubt the Vote Their Conscience/ Send A Message folks will ever get that concept through their heads, and thus will essentially doom the country to decades of really fucked up conservative, lifetime appointed judges, Supremes, and policies that will take forever to undo. Which is unbelievably sad.
     
    #44 Chip, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  5. Chip

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    Upon close inspection, he was more likely a poof. He had a male companion who lived with him. But for whatever reason, nobody noticed or cared. However, I can already imagine the religious indignation machine that will crank up full force if Mayor Pete starts gaining real traction. Sad to say but seems like too big a risk to me. On the other hand, as I previously stated, I didn't give Obama a whole lot of chance either.
     
  6. Dionysios

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    You are right my friend. People embraced Trump as an outsider. This rich shyster sold himself to the average working class guy as a man of the people! Incredible!
     
  7. Nickw

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    People like to claim that Trump shakes things up and that he is not a typical politician and that makes him special.

    The bottom line is that Trump did not win by presenting new ideas or promising to fight for the folks that elected him. He did not win because he was an outsider. He won because he made people afraid that immigrants were going to take their jobs. So, he created a false narrative that sold well. I've read several studies of this. This is why he continues the immigration battle. Because he knows this is why he is in office.

    Let's call it what it is. He created an environment where folks voted on fear and hate and it was enough to change the vote in many key areas of the country. Let's not sanitize what happened.

    This is why the Democrats need to run Biden. In those areas (Penn and Michigan for example), Biden polls much better against Trump than the likes of Sanders or Warren. Both of these candidates need to get out of the race now.

    I get that the young folks feel they haven't been represented. I truly do. And, I think that we need fresh talent. I am so into Buttigieg regardless of his sexuality that I sent a contribution early...I did with Obama too. But, please please please not this election on the protest voting.
     
    #47 Nickw, May 6, 2019
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  8. Mike92

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    I'm a moderate Republican and I hate Donald Trump.

    That said, I'd like to see Amy Klobuchar or Joe Biden win in 2020. While I don't agree with Klobuchar on a lot of things, she is well-qualified to be president and fairly pragmatic. Unfortunately, I don't see her making it past the Iowa caucuses.

    Joe Biden has significant experience and wouldn't be afraid of deal making, which this nation desperately needs. He'd also be very competitive against Trump in must-win rust belt states such as Pennsylvania, and that's why Trump is most worried about Biden.
     
  9. johndeere3020

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    If her people don't like to work for her then they shouldn't.

    Male, female, LGBTQ, it don't matter, we need some one with the balls to put our country back on track. I haven't seen a MAGA hat in months of day to day life. We were never not great as a country. He is just trying to gaslight everyone. The best thing he could do is have another cheeseburger and have a heart attack!

    I had one hotel General Manager that would say openly in the morning staff meeting "Billy, the faggot auditor from corporate in San Clemente is coming to audit my hotel, I hate faggots" At a Hilton branded hotel another GM, in private, asked me (at the time I was going to go to school to be a nurse) "Why do you want to be a nurse? When I got my hip replaced I had a male nurse, I had to ask him if he was married and had a family to see if he was queer before he gave my a bath."

    He ended up getting fired after someone sent an email to Hilton Corporate. He almost ended up with a broken fucking nose.

    The moral of the story is that HATE is still present. We need a leader that will unseat our current one, #1 job to be done for the dems!

    Read Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History of the United States" for a different perspective on our country.
     
  10. Mike92

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    As someone who has worked on Capitol Hill as a staffer in the House and Senate, I've gotta say this is a very unfair and sexist criticism of Klobuchar and certainly shouldn't disqualify her to be president.

    Anyone who's ever worked on the Hill or covers it knows that there are dozens of members of Congress - many of them men - who are awful to work for. Yet, the media rarely talks about the crazy male members of Congress who treat staff like shit. Think Klobuchar is bad? There is no comparison between her and someone like Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee from Texas. I've also heard multiple stories from staff who have worked for other members that are far worse than Klobuchar. I can assure you that Klobuchar is not the worst politician to work for in D.C. (uhh, Donald Trump?!). She's not even the worst senator to work for.

    Obviously, Klobuchar shouldn't be screaming and belittling staff. But she has a reputation for being a hard-working, detail orientated policy wonk who's dedicated and actually cares about getting things done. She expects the same from her staff.

    And just because Klobuchar has high turnover doesn't necessarily mean it's because she's a terrible boss to work for. The Hill isn't for everyone. It's a cut throat place where expectations are high. It's an incredibly stressful job with long hours, little pay, crazy people and, yes, bosses who yell. The average tenure for a House staffer is around two or three years, and it's not much higher in the Senate. Most congressional staff leave to cash in their Hill experience in the private sector for significantly better pay, which is why I left.
     
    #50 Mike92, May 6, 2019
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  11. Mike92

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    I mean, this idea sounds nice in theory, but in practice term limits would probably make things worse by increasing special interest influence. Studies have shown term limits aren't very effective.

    Congress has a brain drain, and the big reason for the lack of policy expertise is high staff turnover due to shit pay and complex policy issues that members have little knowledge about. For example, if you're a newly elected member of Congress who was previously a lawyer, you're probably not going to know the ins and outs of health policy because, well, you're not a doctor or health care expert. Or if you're a physician turned politician, you likely don't have much experience in tech or trade policy. That's why members rely on their staff so much, but there's only so much policy expertise a 25-year-old legislative assistant making $45,000 who's covering 12 different policy subjects can provide.
     
    #51 Mike92, May 6, 2019
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  12. johndeere3020

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    In the heartland of America I know many people who would kill to make 45k per year.
     
    #52 johndeere3020, May 7, 2019
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  13. Dionysios

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    Chip is speaking the truth. To vote in a general election for a third party candidate is a wasted vote - you might just as well have voted for the main opposition candidate. In a general election it is vital for everyone to rally and vote for the leading candidate of your party, even if that person is not your first choice. Third party candidates, time and time again, swing the election in critical swing states.
     
  14. smurf

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    Naw man, this is the split in the party that will continue to be seen and I do think its generational.

    Most people I know will vote against Trump and for whoever wins the primary. That's an almost given and I will vote for Biden if I have to in the general election, but I will be damn if I vote for a centrist candidate in the primary.

    Its an ideological divide. I don't want someone who will compromise with Trump Republicans right now. I want someone who will stand for good public policy.

    The younger generations are not as scared of socialism as older folk. Listen, I'm an immigrant, my whole family are immigrants and I have close friends who are on DACA and we are all fearing for our lives. We have orchestrated events with our fellow muslism community and have seen the consequences of the hate that Trump has brought to this country. But don't use us as an excuse to vote for Biden. Centrist candidates are no longer the leaders we need in the Democratic party.

    Biden was part of the worst presidency when it came to immigration and international affairs. Obama was fucking horrible to immigrants, but its a fact that is now less talked about because Trump managed to be so much worse. If Biden is promising the same treatment to immigrants as Obama then that's not a progressive win. That's what many of us are scared of. You guys are willing to compromise with Trump in too many topics.

    Biden is so centrist that he didn't even have the guts to openly defend congresswoman Ilahn Omar when Trump went after her life because he was too afraid of seeming "too liberal". That is not the leadership that I will vote for in the primaries.

    Its also scary how many of you are willing to vote for Mayor Pete when the guy has 0 public policies on paper. You will choose him over Warren who was more experience and proven record than anyone else simply because he is digestible to centrist. Mainly because he has no public policy to criticize.

    Trump is also not enemy #1 by the way. He is fucking terrible, but the white supremacy movement being built will be there after he gets out of office. We need leaders who are able to tackle this head on and not candidates who are too afraid to seem "too liberal" to tackle real problems.
     
  15. Lgbtqpride

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    I want gay president so less people will discriminate against gay people.I want a role model.Pete 2020!
     
  16. Nickw

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    Smurf

    The thing about government in the US is that little happens long term unless it is a result of bipartisan agreement. And, we are a nation of diverse viewpoints that our government needs to represent. So, centrists get something done. Obama picked his battles and, unfortunately, immigration reform was kicked down the road be a compromise could not be found. It's, sadly, the way it works.

    Thing is Smurf. Millennials voted less than 50% in the last Presidential election. My generation voted at 70%. If the young people want to be heard, they need to participate and force an evolution of ideas rather than a revolution. If young people don't participate, we end up with a Trump and gains made in the past are wiped out. And, even worse, the Supreme Court becomes a mess for a generation.

    Yep. Warren has a whole bunch of great ideas. But, tell me, how many of these have become law since she has been in the Senate? Same with Bernie Sanders. Has the rhetoric paid off? Is a policy wonk effective as a President or is someone who knows how to find a middle ground more effective?

    Obamacare should have had a public option. But, the votes weren't there so Obama went for something. Had Trump not won, a future Democrat Administration, even a centrist one would have moved that needle a bit further to the left.

    This is why I like Buttigieg. Regardless of policy positions he may have the qualities to get something accomplished because he doesn't make enemies. Warren makes enemies and that is effective as a Senator but not an Administrator. More importantly, we need someone that can get the millennials voting over 50% without pushing the baby boomers to the right.
     
    #56 Nickw, May 7, 2019
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  17. Mike92

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    But it's awful money in one of the most expensive areas of the country where rent for a one bedroom apartment can be $1,200-$1,900 a month.

    It's also not enough considering that congressional staff are essentially running the most powerful nation in the world for a salary they could double or triple in the private sector.
     
    #57 Mike92, May 7, 2019
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  18. smurf

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    These are good questions and its something I hope people look into. Warren is a hell of a warrior.

    • She was one of the people who envisioned and created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Its ground breaking, it actually helps people and it has saved $12.4 billion in relief to consumers from our enforcement actions. It was one of the greatest accomplishments to make sure we avoid another recession and people get protected. Its the agency that now Trump has been attacking nonstop and it would have not been possible if it weren't for Elizabeth Warren.
    • She introduced legislation with GOP Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa to make hearing aids available over-the-counter
    • She cosponsored the “Smart Savings Act” with GOP Senator Rob Portman of Ohio to boost federal employees’ savings
    • an opioids bill with Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia
    • and legislation to make it easier for veterans to obtain commercial driver’s licenses.
    • Warren, with cosponsors from both parties, introduced legislation that sought to fix the delays (of National Guard members receiving a promotion and the Pentagon officially recognizing it) and would have given officers backdated pay. A modified version became law in 2018.
    For Massachusetts alone:
    • She helped secure $216 million for the dredging of Boston Harbor — a project that the Army Corps of Engineers estimates will generate $2.7 billion in economic activity for New England
    • $400 million for the MBTA’s Green Line extension
    • $14.5 million in disaster relief for Massachusetts fishermen
    • Since she joined the Senate Armed Services Committee in 2017, more than $184 million for military construction projects in the state.
    And that's just some of it. This woman is a freaking boss and that's all done in one single term as a freshman senator.

    This has been the story of every single generation in history. Your generation was just as bad at voting as millenials.

    Right now we have young congresswomen who millennial love but you all hate. We are getting people elected that would have never been possible before like AOC and Ilhan Omar, but also told that we should stop voting them in since they are "too liberal".

    You can't have it both ways.

    And this is why the generational divide will be hard to close.

    Centrism no longer works in our ever-connected world. People are tired of picking centrist and then told "wait your turn. We need to get this done first".

    We won't agree on this, but I do think this conversation is at least useful. EC is probably one of the few places where you have a conversation between generations in the lgbt community.

    So kudos to everyone taking time out of their days and using their energy to have these conversations.
     
  19. GayTurtle

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    I'm not sure why I should be scared of this? The guy's a mayor (i.e. an executive), which arguably gives him more relevant experience in actually implementing policies than any of the senators running. It's clear where he stands on most of the issues. The vast majority of the specific policies people are proposing would never get implemented as written even if the candidate was elected to the presidency with a full democratic
    Legislature anyways. Proposals like Warren's can be an effective communication strategy, but as far as I can tell that's all it is at this point. I'm not even sure I even with the premise since he's taken pretty specific stances on a variety of issues (e.g. advocating for a single payer healthcare option).

    Agree, and this is an important nuance (the comparison to what they could make otherwise) that I've seen neglected, also e.g. when considering how much STEM teachers get paid.
     
  20. smurf

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    This is up for debate, but it scary to me and others for two reasons.

    His campaign strategy right now is to put as little on paper as possible in order for it to be nearly impossible to attack. Trump did something very similar when he was running. If we allow this precedent to continue, then you are talking about voting for the most powerful person in the world without knowing exactly where they stand on public policy.

    While Pete has said some ideas on video, he has also backtracked some of them in different videos. But even all the videos are not easily accessible on his website. This makes his public policy stance a moving target that can easily change and that he doesn't have to defend.

    Its a crazy precedent for one of the highest offices in the country. I for one I'm worried that we aren't asking from Pete more as a leader. I want a formal proposal for public policy. It really shouldn't be this hard and every single other candidate already has one.