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Who do you endorse for president in 2020?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Andrew99, May 4, 2019.

  1. PatrickUK

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    As a complete outsider I would say any Democrat who is capable of defeating Trump. I don't think some Americans realise, or fully appreciate how much damage President Trump has caused to your countries reputation abroad. Far from enhancing it with his caustic brand of diplomacy, he has alienated many long standing allies and sown seeds of doubt and suspicion about America's long term commitment to international peace and stability. Just consider that for a moment and ask yourself if that's a good place to find your country in? The United States surely needs its friends, and your friends need a reliable and honest United States. As things stand, long term friendships and alliances are under great strain; many Europeans find Donald Trump utterly loathsome and totally untrustworthy.

    I would suggest Joe Biden (with a good running mate) stands the best chance of defeating Trump. He has demonstrated an ability to build alliances and reach across the divide and he has established a solid reputation abroad. These are key qualities that will be necessary in bringing more and more people on board. Rather like the Leader of the Opposition in the UK, Bernie is a polarising figure who has a good and enthusiastic support base, but may struggle with that vital broader appeal that will swing people away from Trump.

    As for other candidates, forget them. This will be your one opportunity to get rid of Donald Trump and put a stop the chaos and erosion of trust. Voting for anyone other than the Democrat will be a complete stitch up that will hand power back to Trump.
     
  2. Nickw

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    Buttigieg in a perfect world

    I have a right wing friend, a centrist friend and a liberal friend from South Bend. All love him. And, one of them is sort of a homophobe. But, Biden can win it, so Bernie shouldn't wear the socialist title in a Democrat field.

    But, as Chip suggested. We don't get our first choice here. We have to get Trump out of office. I have three gay siblings and I am bisexual. Trump has attacked the gay community since he took office with a nibble here and there. This is the way that people are marginalized in this society. In this country, at this time, there are physicians who will not treat LGBT folks. I know one. Trump's agenda includes an expansion of this sort of behavior and it has to be stopped. I fear for my family and my friends.

    This will sound sort of condescending perhaps. But, I just cannot understand how any member of the LGBT family could vote for Trump against a centrist candidate like Biden. Biden might be a bit unfiltered and, maybe too old. But, he has shown he can be a steady hand and has an ability to compromise.

    I wish we could have a candidate that is more of a representative of the millennial generation. But, it's not the election for that guys. It's truly a desperate situation and we need the best hope.
     
  3. smurf

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    Its so fucking early in the game. We are still not even done with primaries and people are talking presidential elections.

    If you are feeling overwhelmed, know its okay. You still have time to decide.

    I will say one single thing though. For the primaries, don't vote for who you think will be able to beat Trump. For the primaries only, focus on exactly who you like, vote who gets you excited, and vote for the candidate that you think "wow, amazing!". Don't think about Trump for the primaries.

    Electability is a false concept. Trump was not deemed electable when he was running. It was a fucking joke, but people voted for the person who they got excited for and bam that's how people get elected. Electability means absolutely nothing in the primaries. Nothing. Just vote for whoever you get excited for.

    If you get excited for a candidate, also go and volunteer, donate, host debate parties, etc.

    I get philosophical what you are doing, but if you live in a state that has close primaries then you are accomplishing nothing. Literally, nothing.

    You are making your decision in the general election harder to do, you aren't able to influence the primaries, and you won't be able to to be part of local chapters to make shit possible for local positions like city commissioners and the like.

    Independent parties in the US are a joke because mathematically. Politically they also don't work since the parties don't have strong footholds around the nation or in congress. A third party president will accomplish nothing because they will have 0 votes to get anything done.
     
  4. Nickw

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    Smurf

    I really wish I could agree with you. But, I don't in this case. I think it would be a mistake for the Democrats to run B Sanders or Elizabeth Warren just as I felt it was a mistake to anoint HRC in the last election when her negatives were so high. I would, usually, love that Sanders and Warren would shake things up. But, not in this case.

    The Democrats need to take back the rust belt or Trump wins. I contributed to Buttigieg because I believe he is the guy who could do this and I really think us old farts need to hand over the reins and the reigns. But, I will stand behind Biden at this point because the Democrats need to be a united front and we need to pick a candidate who will win Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania. It's the dang math.
     
  5. smurf

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    Again, not how it works for primaries.

    Primaries are more than just picking the person for the general election. Primaries choose the ethics of each party for the years to come, it affects local elections, and it affects fundraising for other candidates. A primary where Elizabeth warren becomes a high contender tells party officials "listen, these are the things that people will support. The support is there". A primary where only Biden kills it because people are voting only on who will beat Trump will do nothing for us long-term.

    For example while Bernie lost, his ideas have been cemented in many ways. Most democratic candidates now back medicare for all, most back a livable wage, and most are now talking about progressive policy that they weren't before. Biden, on the other hand, is in the middle of the road where nothing matters other than being neutral enough for everyone to be "eh" about even supports some of those policies, but would have never done so if it weren't for Bernie having such traction in the last primaries.

    Of course, I believe Trump won because people got excited about him. That's the end of the story. I'd suggest you vote for people you get excited about in the primary, create a party in the long-term, and keep getting involved.
     
    #25 smurf, May 6, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2019
  6. Love4Ever

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    Wow you really do manage to offend absolutely everyone every time you open your mouth don’t you? Who are you to tell people what to do? I mean really who gives you the right? I’m absolutely sick of the way this site thinks it can belittle and berate people. It’s disgusting.
     
  7. dano218

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    I think he means well. He is not trying to belittle anyone but realistically voting a for third party candidate is what took away votes from Clinton and helped give Trump the election in 2016. The numbers prove that. From what I mean is sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture of what is more at stake than your own view of things and sometimes that means voting for a candidate who may not be perfect but they are so better than the alternative. Life is getting more dangerous for the LGBT community and that is something we cannot take for granted in the next election.
     
  8. Chip

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    And it's really important to state that in this circumstance, not voting, or throwing your vote away on an unelectable third party, or writing in someone is effectively the same as voting for Trump, especially if you live in a state that is potentially a swing state.

    I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, it seems an awful lot of people would rather Send A Message or Vote Their Conscience than actually get someone elected who can turn around the current disaster that is happening.
     
  9. Chip

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    This. A thousand times this.
     
  10. Nickw

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    I know you've had your disagreements with Chip as have I. But, this is one case where I think we really do need to look at protecting our community from another Trump Administration. I'm an old guy. At one time, I voted to send a message. GW won and it mattered in my State. Nader may have turned it. What did that get? A conservatively stacked Supreme Court and it was my fault. Sometimes, we really have to look at the big picture and this is a time to do it.
     
  11. Chip

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    What you don't seem to be getting here is we cannot (at least, if we give a crap about the people who are most vulnerable) take even a remote chance of nominating somebody that will not have the very best chance of beating Trump. If Bernie were to get nominated, I'm not sure he'd appeal to enough of the Rust Belt and southern/conservative Dems that we MUST have in order to defeat trump. And there are plenty of skeletons in Bernie's closet that Russian trolls can leverage to influence the election. I don't think anyone else stands a chance with the moderate Repubs and conservative Dems we need to get Trump booted out.

    Trump didn't get elected principally because people got excited about him. As has been shown in the Mueller report and elsewhere, Trump got elected in part because there was unprecedented interference that was very carefully orchestrated and carried out by groups with an unlimited budget for the purpose of getting him elected. He also got elected because an amazing number of unbelievably stupid people decided not to vote at all if they couldn't have what they wanted, or they instead decided to Send A Message (that no one was listening to) or Vote Their Conscience (which, as I've previously stated, is an exercise in privilege. Nice to be able to do if your life, rights, and liberty doesn't depend on who gets elected). And of course, the Russian meddling meant sowing seeds of discontent, further discouraging would-be Hillary voters, and energizing Trump voters.

    Additionally, at least in part, we have the bruising Democratic primary battle to thank for beating up Hillary so badly that it left that much more for the Repubs (and Russian trolls) to go after in taking her down. The same will happen if we have a bruising primary battle this time around.

    I voted for Bernie in the primary. I advocated for him. I did a lot of outreach. And I 100% got on board when Hillary got it even though I would have rather seen it go to Bernie. I am still not sure if Bernie could have beaten Trump, but I think it was probably possible, given the craziness of the last election, which was more about charisma than anything else. However, all the Bernie-Or-Bust folks who voted for asshat Jill Stein or didn't vote at all, or worse, out of protest, voted for Trump... that's what got him elected in the numerous states with razor-thin margins.

    As NickW has described, this has happened before, most recently with Ralph Nader (another narcissistic asshat) who preferred stroking his own ego over ensuring the country didn't continue to go down the tubes... and as a result, we got some truly horrid policy, long-term stacking of the Supreme Court, and other things. We've already got a 5-to-4 majority stacked against us, thanks to the idiots who didn't think getting Trump defeated was that important. RBG can't manage another 4 years, so if Trump gets reelected, we are literally fucked for the next 30 or 40 years. Why anyone would take even the most remote risk of not doing absolutely everything to prevent that is beyond me.

    And the same will happen again, if people don't wake up and give up their idealism and work 150% to get the most electable candidate out there, as quickly as possible, to campaign against Trump.
     
    #31 Chip, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  12. Dionysios

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    As someone who worked at one time in the presidential campaigns for Jimmy Carter in 1976 and for Ronald Reagan in 1980 (met them both), I will add my two cents in on this discussion. WARNING: You arr not going to like what I have to say.

    Looking at how things stand, I am loathe to say it but I find it highly probable that Donald Trump will be reelected - and by a bigger margin than the first time. The economy is good, the Russia investigation went nowhere and while many Americans won't admit it, many people secretly agree with Trump on many issues like stricter borders, deporting illegals and trade. While there are many progressive and liberal folks, they are found largely in the big blue states such as California, Illinois, New York and the New England states. The vast American heartland, which controls most of the Electoral College, will swing decisively for Trump and carry him on to a landslide victory.

    Thus far there is no Democratic candidate that I can see who is in a position to defeat Trump. I am sorry to sat, but Biden and Sanders are too old. Their time has come and gone. Many of the younger candidates are young, smart and very liberal, but people in the Heartland won't support people they feel are tainted with socialism.

    Personally I will go with my heart and vote in the primaries for Pete Buttegieg. He's young, intelligent, moderate and identifies as a Christian (all would play well in the Heartland). Being openly gay is not the kiss of death in politics as it used to be. I doubt if he would get the Democratic nomination, but Pete could lay the groundwork for a more serious bid in 2024. After all, Reagan failed to get the Republican nomination in '76 but he built up his organization and reputation among the voters which helped him win big in 1980.

    Despite how much people dislike Trump, we can't wish him away. He looks unbeatable right now.
     
  13. johndeere3020

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    12. Dem. Amy Klobuchar, but I'm biased as she is one of Minnesota's Senators. I think she is no non sense, get the job done, no one is going to push me around, I can grow a pair when needed type of person.

    However, this is the MOST important thing!

     
  14. Niagara

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    Except she’s also well known as the literal worst politician in all of Washington to work for. Her staff unanimously hates her and most of her aides quit in a year or less because she’s an awful boss who apparently screams at them and throws things at them routinely. If she can’t even get her own employees to like her that’s not a good sign.
     
  15. Andrew99

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    You are probably right. I will just try to remain optimistic. Personally I think the only way trump will lose is if we go into recession although I don’t want to go into one. Oh well here’s to 2024 I guess.
     
  16. Tightrope

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    Yes to Biden and no to Bernie. I agree. He's not electable.

    I agree with what you say about Biden. I also will cross party lines when I have to.

    Jill Stein was also not qualified and Gary Johnson was more of an idiot than people who got on his bandwagon could imagine. Many doctors seem to have a God complex that takes them over to politics, so Republican Ben Carson was also not really qualified.

    Trump in the Oval Office makes multi term Texas Governor Rick Perry look both qualified and like he can walk on water. That's a reach, but ... Trump's tweet about two additional years show how disconnected he is from reality and how he thinks he's above the law. He's the ultimate narcissist. Right now, I'm only looking at Biden. People have already been at it by scrutinizing his hugs. I loved the way he put away Paul Ryan at one of the debates before the 2012 election.
     
  17. Dionysios

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    I hope I am mistaken my friend. I am heartsick at the thought of four more years of Trump. It will not be good for our LGBTQ community.*sigh*
     
  18. OGS

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    As far as the whole vote your conscience thing, I guess I understand that there will always be people who choose to fiddle while Rome burns. I feel like I really do get that, I wouldn't say I'm at peace with it, given the very real consequences to others, but I get it. What I really don't understand is how proud many of them are of it, that I'll never get...

    It's shaping up to be interesting and I still feel like it could easily go either way. I had a sort of interesting interaction around it at work recently. I have a coworker who's a young straight guy--no indication he's any kind of liberal firebrand, in fact if I had to characterize him I'd say he was a frat boy type, like the kindest sweetest frat boy you'd ever meet, but definitely a frat boy type nonetheless. And he is so gung ho for Mayor Pete, not just wanting him to win but absolutely convinced that he will win. And I think he was sort of disappointed that I wasn't as excited. I think he's a great candidate and I think it would be great if he won, but I kind of can't imagine that as a real possibility. I guess I didn't even realize how much water there was under that particular bridge for me. My husband totally thinks he could possibly go the distance, but I just can't wrap my mind around the possibility. I mean we just elected a lesbian mayor but the country at large isn't Chicago and I just can't quite bring myself to even imagine a gay president. I'm sort of disappointed in myself to be honest...
     
  19. Dionysios

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    I like Pete too and will vote for him in the primary (I registered to vote at a Pride event), but he is not a seasoned politician on the national level. I cannot see him winning the nomination. He lacks the political contacts and the financial backing needed for a successful bid. My private hope is that whoever wins the Demicratic nomination will choose Pete for VP - that would be a great boost to his future political career.
     
  20. Tightrope

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    Thanks for this post. We don't see what happens behind the scenes. This happens with numerous VIPs and politicians. It seems more common than not. We probably won't hear about most of them but we will about some. Trump also has a revolving door going on and it's just like his reality shows. I don't know how anyone who is not rich and voted for him could still defend him. I don't know anyone like that ... anymore. I am pretty sure there are still people that our so called populist president (lower case) courted that still would defend him. I find that sick.

    Kamala Harris is very qualified. Her credentials and experience are all relevant and typical for a strong candidate. I also like Cory Booker. Some say he hasn't done the best job with Newark. His being single has already been scrutinized. Our country elected one bachelor POTUS almost two hundred years ago, so it has happened. I don't know as much as I'd like about these two candidates and the others. I'll get more into it as it gets closer.