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White racism

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Jellyfish Clear, May 11, 2016.

  1. Andrew99

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    We shouldn't be ones to put all things on black people. People who say that black people are all on welfare which isn't true but what is funny is their are just as many white people on welfare as their are black and there's more white people are on food stamps then black people. I don't think any race is better then anything I just hate it when people of color say hey white boy/girl.
     
  2. Libertino

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    I've been called "white boy" and I'm Mexican, but I look white, so what do I do? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    But remember, it's not the number of people on welfare or food stamps, it's the ratio. That's how you tell if there's a racial propensity for something.
     
    #102 Libertino, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  3. Benway

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    Racism exists everywhere and for everyone. I live by a high school in a black neighbourhood and when the kids get out of school they're rather loud and obnoxious but also a little bit more than enlightening when it comes to their personal views. Many of them walk in the middle of the street and once a group of black kids walking in the middle of the street got honked at by a passing car driven by a white guy and I was sitting on my back porch smoking a cigarette watching this happen and the group kind of got over excited when this car trying to pass through the street honked at them for walking in the middle of the street and they all started hurling racially based insults at the white fellow who drove away quickly. I then heard one of them yell "White people is stupid!" followed by "Da black master race, uh-huh!" And I'm not paraphrasing that, these are words that came out of their mouths. This is the most prominent example I can think of, and it's something that stuck out in my mind. But yes, racism exists towards anybody for any reason.
     
  4. Andrew99

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    I know that I'm just saying I know lots of people who say only black people are on welfare and how they all live off the system but in reality there's only a 1% difference of black and white people on welfare. And often people who shame others for being on welfare are getting some form of assistance themselves.
     
  5. beastwith2backs

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    All people have the exact same start to life, and innocent baby born into the world. However, some people are born into poor families and some people are born into rich families. There are dirt poor white families and dirt poor black families. There are rich white families and there are rich black families aswell. It sucks for the poor families, yes that they live under such conditions, but you know what? If you don't work decide to work hard, you'll stay poor for the rest of your life. Other factors include graduating from highschool, and not having children out of wedlock, but i digress, that's irrelevant for now. If you work hard and are born into a poor family, you'll be rich or atleast live a good life. It has nothing to do with your race.

    People here are claiming that POC's have to deal with extra rubbish that white people don't get like racism and dsicrimination? Yeah, what kind of discrimination? Have you ever been put down because of your skin colour? Were you turned down a job interview because of that? Are there white water fountains and black water fountains where you live? Black churches and white churches? If you can't positively to those questions, then please stop screaming diacrimination, realize what a nice life and country you live in, and enjoy life.

    Now don't go telling me racism = power + prejudice. That's bullshit and you know deep down inside somewhere, that it's bullshit.. White people don't have power in the USA, anymore than jews had power in nazi germany, or conservatives think they do. It just simply isn't so. If you're calling american society white supremacist, please consider the fact that this white supremacist society allowed a black man to run and become president...for 8 years. Also keep in mind that in you're white supremacist society, that it's totally okay for black people to say the most disgusting things I've ever heard in my life, but the minute white person does that, it's labelled as racism, which it is, but shouldn't it work the other way around too?

    Look, once upon a time, when you granparents were still young and had black hair and white teeth, there was systematic opression against immigrants and black people. People stood up for that when it became too much, and won, because they were in the right. Fastforward 50 years later, and you have this thread.... People who actually think it's morally okay to blame modern white people in the usa for shit that happened 170 years ago, just because they look like the people who owned slaves. All the hard work of martin luther king down the drain, i guess...

    Why is this so hard to understand?

    ---------- Post added 16th May 2016 at 04:25 PM ----------

    Gosh, libertino, for a second i thought you were talking to me!
     
    #105 beastwith2backs, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  6. Chip

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    Yes, I'm saying that, and if you actually studied it, you'd realize how ignorant your comments are.

    The most blatant is housing and its impact on familial wealth. The remnants of the government-supported housing and home financing system had a dramatic, systemic, and devastating effect on people of color in this country that persists today.

    Housing developments that are predominantly black have much lower values than housing developments that are predominantly white. Additionally, many black people are
    not able to afford to "move up" to nicer areas because the appreciation on homes they are able to afford typically does not rise as much as the appreciation on homes in more affluent areas.

    The schools in these areas are typically not as well funded, leading to poorer quality education, which leads to fewer educational opportunities in higher education. Even an exceptionally gifted student who works his or her hardest will have a much harder time getting into a competitive college because of the systemic disadvantages s/he has grown up with.

    Students who are lucky enough to get into a high-quality, competitive college are far less likely to graduate because the financial pressures on them, again because of disproportionate differences in familial wealth, income, education, and other factors that provide advantages, are not available. Typically these kids have to take additional jobs to cover their tuition, and they may need additional academic support because their school systems may not have adequately prepared them, even if their IQ and GPA is superior to many of their white counterparts.

    In the job market the unemployment rate for black males 16-24 is close to 50%. In spite of laws prohibiting discrimination in hiring, the reality is that even at the lowest level of jobs (minimum wage service-sector positions), black people are underrepresented in proportion to their numbers in society in employment. Again, this is in part due to lack of preparedness due to poor quality schools and underfunding of schools in low-income areas. And before you go there, actually, there are far more white families on welfare than black ones; this isn't an issue of not wanting to work. In the areas where programs have been implemented to target reducing the unemployment among minorities, there are nearly always more applicants than available jobs. These people do not want to be sitting around on welfare.

    When you look at even government jobs, you find that blacks are grossly underrepresented in management and higher-level jobs. (Women and many other minorities, and many disabled people are similarly underrepresented, but that's a different issue.)

    In the health care sector, black people are less likely (even when treated by the same physicians) to receive the same quality of medical care as their white cohorts, after controlling for other factors.

    In the banking and financial sector, equally qualified candidates who happen to be black are less likely to be approved for loans, and when they are, often at higher interest rates than their white counterparts. When the applications are done blind (meaning, those making the decisions see only the application, but do not know the race of the applicant), the discrimination goes away.

    And I don't think i need to go into any detail about law enforcement and the inherent racism and profiling that exists among some police officers and police departments.

    There are institutional and systemic racist policies (these days, typically more implicit than explicit... again, terms you probably don't understand, having not studied the topic) in nearly every governmental and private sector institution in this country. I could go on for hours on this topic, but the data is solid.

    It is so incredibly well documented that there's no credible refutation for it... which is why I said that if you don't bother to actually study it, then your opinion can only be one borne of ignorance. Having been made aware that there is a lot of information you don't know about, you have two options: Study the information and actually learn about the topic, or double down and choose to willfully remain ignorant and spout more material that further makes clear how little you actually understand about the nature of this topic.

    In spite of the fact that President Obama has done more than his predecessors to begin to remedy the problem, through executive orders and championing the passage of legislation, the problem is, largely.... people like you who insist that it is "no longer a problem." When people deny the systemic nature of the problem, they essentially perpetuate it, often unintentionally. And there are still in this country an awful lot of people who harbor implicit bias (for example, the physicians described above.) There are also the remnants of so many systems that were put into place decades ago that still severely impact people of color. So the oppression, then, is run essentially by a system run amok, that has many institutional traces of racist policies, often run by well-meaning people who certainly don't see themselves as racist and may not understand how their beliefs and policies contribute to a climate of oppression.

    It is, for those of us who are trying to make a difference, a pretty depressing state of affairs, but simply standing by and being depressed doesn't solve anything. Educating people, encouraging them to understand the problem, and begin to take small steps to remedy the injustices is how we make a difference. And Obama was taking steps in that direction long before he was elected even to the Senate.

    I can't speak specifically to that group, but the oppressive culture and policies exist and impact pretty much all non-white, non-male, non-cis, non-straight, and non-"born here" populations in one way or another. And of course, there are plenty of white people born into poverty that suffer many of the same issues as their black counterparts, but they have the inherent privilege of being white, which, as described above, will impact them in many ways, making it easier for them to climb the social ladder.

    There are certainly well-to-do, highly educated, high income, successful people of color. However, even these people suffer from the effects of institutionalized racism in the financial, law enforcement, housing, job market, and other sectors, as I touched on before. Many are very successful, but it is unlikely you will find many of those same people who will not acknowledge having run into institutionalized racism at some point -- and likely multiple points -- in their lives.

    One of the biggest problems in overcoming institutionalized racism (and all other forms of oppression that affect other populations) is people's willful choice to remain ignorant when they have the opportunity to inform themselves and fully understand the issues. It's near impossible to do that and continue to hold ignorant beliefs, because the factual information is simply overwhelming.

    Letting one bozo with an opinion and a Youtube account discount the work of thousands of researchers and decades of study and research is a pretty sad justification for maintaining ignorance.
     
  7. Pret Allez

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    Oh, and people with black-sounding names are less likely to get a call back for a job interview than candidates with white-sounding names.

    But by all means I look forward to more discourse pointing to the literal moral equivalence of, say, "cracker," and the n-word.
     
    #107 Pret Allez, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  8. berrybritt

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    definition wise, yes, you absolutely can be racist toward white people. racism isnt exclusive to minorities. that's not an opinion; it is fact.

    should racism toward african americans and other minorities be put before racism toward caucasians? that is a matter of opinion.
     
  9. Hizaki

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    Could this be attributed more to low-class-sounding names, regardless of race? The problem therein though, too be honest, is that many people often associate names common for black people with low class. Of course, the spelling of one's name probably has something to do with it. Would you think better of a Jackson, or a Jakxon just by name? Maybe I'm wrong, but I think black people where I live have oddly-spelled names more often than white ones do.
     
  10. Libertino

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    I wonder that as well. There are low-class white names, like Bonnie Mae or Buford or something...and there's also a trend of giving white babies "inventive spellings", names like "Mayleigh" and "Kaydyn" and such. Those exude whiteness, but would they also ward off an employer? That I don't know.

    My parents deliberately avoided giving me a Spanish name because they didn't want my name to be too "ethnic" (their words).
     
  11. Radioactive Bi

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    Racism can by definition, be towards any race. People, will try to argue semantics on the issue as there is a common trend these days to redefine words and terms to fit a certain persons or groups narrative. They may try to use ridiculous arguments like prejudice and racism aren't the same thing and you can be prejudice towards white people but not racist. At the end of the day, that's semantic arguing at its worst and smacks of SJW rhetorical nonesense.

    Happy days :slight_smile:
     
  12. gibson234

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    They are racist towards white people in Zimbabwe. Typically racism hasn't come against Europeans because they have been powerful for most of the history of globalization but it can happen.
     
  13. Pret Allez

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    The researchers considered this very question and found that such an interpretation did not match their data very well. Here's the citation, and you can refer to section IV, subsection B for their analysis:

    Bertrand, M., & Mullainathan, S.. (2004). Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination. The American Economic Review, 94(4), 991–1013. Retrieved from http://www.jstor.org/stable/3592802

    Well there you go... They didn't want your name to sound too ethnic. Not too poor.
     
    #113 Pret Allez, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  14. Andrew99

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    Would somebody lock this thread already?
     
  15. Pret Allez

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    Why? Problem users have been suspended, and Chip raised interesting discussion. Posts have been within bounds at least since that point. If this thread makes you uncomfortable, you're free to use the report button and ask the staff to re-evaluate this discussion. But I see no need for that since the staff are already monitoring the discussion closely.

    Discussions of systemic racism and the psychology of prejudice are always important to have.
     
    #115 Pret Allez, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  16. Libertino

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    :eusa_clap

    Can't love this sentence enough. Unfortunately, this is a trend I've noticed among some of the more vocal internet debaters (many of them young) who swear by the opinions of their favorite vloggers, with the belief that there is inherent superiority in the new media, yet they are no less biased or prone to circulating misinformation than any other media outlet.
     
  17. Chip

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    Here's the problem with that argument:

    No matter how we slice it, blacks and other minorities suffer from inherent prejudice, bias, and oppression (individual, institutional, and systemic) that put them at a disadvantage.

    For example, if you look at a population of economically disadvantaged white people, and an equivalent population of economically disadvantaged black people, the black people will have a harder time moving up to the middle class because there are so many biases (many implicit, but some explicit) and disadvantages that exist within the system... look at my post above for examples.

    (I am speaking of the US system; I can't speak intelligently of the issues with other countries because I have not studied them.)

    So when we talk about racism against white people... if you're talking about, say, black people not wanting to hang out with or work with or live near white people, sure that exists. But the impact of that form of racism is not and likely will never have the same effect on oppressing and taking away opportunities as do the biases against blacks and other racial out-groups.

    As such, one can make a technical argument that black-against white racism exists, but it's essentially an empty argument because the impact is minimal to nonexistent in comparison to the privilege that white Americans enjoy simply by virtue of their skin color.
     
  18. Blackbirdz

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    Well, your friend is wrong. Of course you can be racist toward a white person. What if you were to say that all Romanians are gypsies, or that Ashkenazi Jews control the media? Both are racist statements against white people.
     
    #118 Blackbirdz, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  19. imnotreallysure

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    British school teachers have openly admitted that they blacklist children with 'chavvy' (read: poor/disruptive/troublesome) sounding names - my name, Aaron, is apparently one of them. Others include Taylor, Chardonnay, Chantelle, Courtney, Jade, Chelsea and Callum - names predominantly bestowed on working class white children, probably pregnant at 14 and on the dole by 18 - or so goes the stereotype.

    I have no doubt that 'ethnic' sounding names are overlooked in many sectors (even with the stringent anti-discrimination laws we have), but poor-sounding names get overlooked too, at least in the UK. The UK is infamously classist - always has been - so class divides play just as big a role if not more so than any racial divide in our little corner of the world. In the eyes of the establishment, a working class white boy from some poverty-riddled estate in North East England is worth as little as a black teenager from Hackney in London (and the latter probably has more opportunities by sheer virtue of being born in one of the world's richest cities that disproportionately accounts for a large share of all high-paying UK jobs).

    At this moment in time, in the UK, I'd say the most downtrodden towns tend to be almost entirely white British, with elderly populations, and isolated from any major source of employment - most of North East England fits the bill, after that region's dominant industry (coal mining) was decimated by that wonderful woman known as Margaret Thatcher, and many simply never recovered and the families living there have had at least two generations of 'worklessness'. The ethnically diverse major cities by contrast are thriving - and ethnic minorities have played a huge part in their success.
     
    #119 imnotreallysure, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016