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What's your opinion on anarchy?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Ryu, Sep 23, 2015.

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What do you think of Anarchy?

  1. I think anarchy is great!

    8 vote(s)
    11.4%
  2. I guess it's okay...

    5 vote(s)
    7.1%
  3. I like the theory of it but I'd hate to live in an anarchist state.

    26 vote(s)
    37.1%
  4. Meh.

    8 vote(s)
    11.4%
  5. I think it's a awful idea and should never be put into practice.

    23 vote(s)
    32.9%
  1. biguy8

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    Even as a center libertarian, I think there should be some restraints. I love the idea of citizens finally having their 1st and 4th amendment rights. I do worry regarding the gun issue that far too many people could carry on like the wild, wild west. What about safety nets for the poor and the disabled? If you have true anarchy, they are on their own. Anarchy would curb things like big political PAC's because the public would be banded together, but how would city services fare? Probably not good. Do you want no FDA? No police, then who would settle disputes? Perhaps in a political uprising/revolution, there are brief periods of anarchy. In the long run, it is not self-sustaining.
     
  2. Moonflower

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    To me, anarchy is just an abstract concept, because the bullies will ALWAYS rise to the top, therefore, anarchy cannot truly exist...because if we don't have agreed upon government, then we end up with with a dictatorship, because someone will always be trying to rule. I don't think there's a way to destroy the concept of power with humans. It's been this way forever with us, and I think it will continue to be so. Makes me recall The Lord of the Flies. Is my point of view of people that bleak? Well, I just responded to the forum post about the guy who upped the price on a pill from $13.50 to $750, so yes...every day the news will give you a continuous feed of these kinds of people- and these kinds of people will ALWAYS find some kind of way to exert power over others. That doesn't mean there aren't good people doing good things, of course there are. But they're not the ones who would be in power-if the government collapsed tomorrow, the Red Cross, Meals on Wheels and Habitat for Humanity aren't going to be the ones calling the shots.
     
  3. Donteatthesushi

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    You cannot fight nor change human nature. Someone will always take control, the need exists for people to have a leader (someone power hungry will always take advantage of this, if not the ones instigating anarchy to get power for themselves) and people band together for safety, there's no fighting it. Inevitability. You can never win against what is in your nature.
     
  4. Invidia

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    It is not the abscence of a model. There are books and books on what anarchy would look like in practice in human society, how things would be structured, etc.

    I can't convince you of that entirely. However, OP did say that they (using 'they' as a pronoun, Ryu, sorry if that's wrong) thought it would be desirable, like communism, if it worked, thus somehow drawing a parallel between them.
    I don't like the idea of not 'finding it relevant' what most anarchists define anarchism as. That's like arguing against feminism in the same way as Men's Rights Activists do; focusing on a minority and using that to argue against a majority.
    There is so much misinformation because of all the god awful propaganda in society against left-wing ideologies. I feel I want to correct some misinformation in this thread (and every thread ever on EC or anywhere that deals with far-left ideologies.)


    I should have made myself a bit more clear: Libertarian socialism and anarchism are often seen as just the same thing. From Wikipedia*: "Anarchism is usually considered a radical left-wing ideology, and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflect anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism, or participatory economics (in other words: socialist philosophy, but, as mentioned previously, not doing it through state power)."

    This is not what I said. And you are wrong here, I would say, in two steps. Take communism, an adjacent ideology, for example. What is the "general usage" of the word communism? It's just a whiny "Oh, it's so awful, it leads to chaos and dictatorship, oh no". That's not something on which to base an argument. And it's obviously not what communists think of as communism, or what academic theory thinks of as communism (even if right-wing theorists hold similar views, their analysis is naturally more professional). Communists define what their movement is about. So do anarchists. Not the general populace that's been subjugated to propaganda for generations.
    And the technical definition is, according to Wikipedia (short version): "Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates stateless societies, often defined as self-governed, voluntary institutions, but that several authors have defined as more specific institutions based on non-hierarchical free associations." In addition to that, anti-capitalism is often, but not always, central. Some, often more specified, version of the above is most often what anarchists subscribe to. This might be individualist anarchism (in which case it is often pro-capitalism), but most often it's collectivistic. The technical definition is not sneered at, nor did I say it was: I said individualist anarchism is often sneered at. If you are saying that the technical definition of anarchism=individualist anarchism, you are wrong.
     
    #24 Invidia, Sep 24, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  5. MCairo

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    Anarchists are right about some of the flaws of the liberal state but I don't think they offer a logic alternative to this.
     
  6. azuky

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    I think anarchy works in theory, but like communism and other social orders it has its flaws. I know that it will be great, to an extent, to live in a society where nobody tells you what do and everyone is truly equal. That said, I don't think humans have evolved to live in an anarchy state.
     
  7. lemons123

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    Positive, seeing how I identify myself as an anarchist and mostly anarcho-syndicalist and to a lesser degree anarcho-communist.
     
  8. Invidia

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    #28 Invidia, Sep 24, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  9. kem

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    I'm all in favour of civil disobedience if the situation calls for it. Morally right behaviour is more important than legally right behaviour.
    I do think that laws and regulations are a good thing though, in general, and that there should be institutions watching over the people.
     
  10. candyjiru

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    It seems to me that the people who want anarchy are actually the ones longing to be a leader~ but aside from that~ there's a story I heard a long time ago that reminds me of this...

    A school had a large open field behind the school that was surrounded by a huge wooden fence. Every day the kids would go and play in the field~ they would run up to the fence and back to play games, they would use it as a tag-free spot in tag, and so on~ Then one day one of the teachers said, "kids should have more freedom! Why do they have to always look at this ugly eyesore of a fence?" so the school tore it down. After that, the teachers noticed that the students used far less of the field then before. Since they didn't know how far they could go, they were afraid to go to far and stayed close to the school. The lack of boundaries and rules made the students far more confined, rather than giving them more freedom.

    So, in short... I answered, meh XD;;; I think general rules are good and I'd rather have organized society to make sure roads and infrastructure are kept up, that if someone steals from me, I can get something back, and that if someone runs over me with their car, I can not only get money from them/their insurance company, but then use that money to go to a nice hospital. ^.^
     
  11. Donteatthesushi

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    People need to be ruled over, order needs to be maintained in some way or form. Candyjiru is right that the ones who want anarchy are the ones who want to be in charge. Basic human nature everyone wants to rule. Anarchy is filled with too many holes to be a proper system but then again anarchy as a system is self-contradicting.
     
  12. Invidia

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    Order IS maintained. By PEOPLE. DEMOCRATICALLY. In theory, that is; it is the intent for order to be maintained, however this might, as with any ideology, look different in reality. If your argument is that without omnipotent bureaucrats to rule us, there won't be any order, then please phrase it just as such, rather than make false assertions.

    Really? Please present me with theory that has consensus in fields such as sociology, psychology or biology, to prove this statement that humans by nature have this intense desire for power? I am tired of this argument, in that I have never heard any evidence for it whatsoever.

    Assertions: Two. Explanations, even basic ones: Zero.

    ---------- Post added 25th Sep 2015 at 01:33 AM ----------

    This is what human nature is, haha :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    [YOUTUBE]kql0ld02SS4[/YOUTUBE]
     
    #32 Invidia, Sep 24, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  13. Invidia

    Invidia Guest

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    Some sources to actual facts on human nature.


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-wise-brain/201003/how-did-humans-become-empathic - "More than learning how to use tools, more than being successful at violence, more than adapting to moving out of the forest into the grasslands of Africa, it was the complexities of relationships that drove human evolution!; Empathy is in our bones. For example, infants will cry at the tape-recorded sound of other infants crying but not at a recording of their own cries. And speaking of crying, as adults, our tear glands will automatically start producing tears when we hear the crying of others, even if we have no sense of tearing up ourselves."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT8_WrxaiSs (a bit clinical and hard to follow)
     
    #33 Invidia, Sep 24, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  14. biAnnika

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    Here's Webster's definition of anarchy (Webster being a much more authoritative source than Wikipedia any day):

    First, please recognize that I've never made a statement about "anarchism" at all. So I absolutely never made an equation of "anarchism = Individualist anarchism."

    Most native English speakers use "anarchy" to mean 1abc or 2ab...that's how definitions work in dictionaries...the lesser-known/less common usages tend to be listed last. Definition 3 (when one looks that word up) does refer in a way to what you're talking about, so I can't and won't way you're using the word inaccurately. But you should realize that although you may well be using the word in the way most anarchists use it, you are not using it in the way most native English speakers use it. And you should therefore not be in the least surprised or offended when the majority of posters on a thread take it that way.

    Referencing our exchange above, then, yes, it is what you said. "Individualist anarchism" seems to fit the general usage of the word "anarchy". Absence of government. That is all I was saying sounded like a shit deal. I was not making a commentary on Libertarian Socialism. I erred in using the expression "technical definition". Apologies if that confused or offended.

    I believe that the thread was meant to solicit opinions on anarchy...in the general usage of that word...lack of government. I think that diverting it into discussions of communism and variants of socialism distract from that intent. At the very least, you'll be talking at cross-purposes with most posters. I might suggest starting a thread on the topic of Anarchism. That sounds like an interesting discussion of its own.
     
    #34 biAnnika, Sep 24, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  15. tulipinacup

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    My favourite era of anarchy was on the pop-punk of 2002:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Anarchy! YEAh!
     
  16. Argentwing

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    Unrelated to the thread but I can't get over Avril. <3
     
  17. Invidia

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    [YOUTUBE]vc2jDz6w-r4[/YOUTUBE]


    "When my mom and dad were in their teens
    And anarchy was still a dream

    Oh I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair
    In 77 and 69 revolution was in the air
    I was born too late into a world that doesn't care"


    :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    ---------- Post added 25th Sep 2015 at 03:44 PM ----------

    I hate language sometimes. Fine, fine, point taken.
     
  18. baconpox

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    It's very ideologically flawed, and could never work too well--but it deserves more credit than people give it. There's Rovaja at least.
     
  19. SocceRoo

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    the idea of anarchy seems like a good idea, but in reality, with the people the way they are this world anarchy would give out to another and most likely worse kind of government.
     
  20. Helicoprion

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    This