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What is the chain of events that lead to the Conservative politicians being so anti gay.

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by RD Spencer, Aug 11, 2021.

  1. RD Spencer

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    From what I have read religion is the primary reason the Conservatives are so anti gay.


    And the anti gay behavior in religion seems to come from closeted self hating gay men who have been hiding in religion.


    There has been plenty of stories of these very openly homophobic men who have been found out to be gay.


    If this is the case, then it seems like a majority of homophobic behavior in society comes from these repressed gay men.


    This a just a simplification of this situation and I know that things are more complicated.


    So is it not a bit unfair to blame homophobia on all conservatives?

    Or to blame straight people as well?


    Do you think this creates some internal conflict among lgbt people to see repressed lgbt people as a significant source of homophobia?
     
  2. BlueMonday

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    In short, humans are to blame.
     
  3. meltyblood

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    I feel pity for people who spout homophobic/transphobic words and yet somehow at the end of the day still partake in what they claim to be taboo/sinful/disgusting/etc.

    Repressed gay men who support homophobic policies, at the end of the day, still contribute to those homophobic policies and I feel nothing but anger when I see that happen. If anything, it makes me even more angry.
     
  4. quebec

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    RD Spencer.....This is a tough topic. While I feel that, in a large part you are right, I also think that there is more to it. Conservative Christians tend to be conservative politically. Conservative Christians have for many years mis-interpreted the six so-called "Clobber Passages" in the Bible that are used to condemn the LGBTQ Community. It's either poor scholarship or intentional mis-reading of those passages that have lead to the rejection of any sexual orientation other than heterosexual. While there are certainly, as you say; "closeted self hating gay men", who are suffering from internalized homophobia, there are also many other men and women who reject our community. They do so because they have been taught that we are an abomination and they have never chosen to study and find out what the Bible actually says on their own. They simply believe what they are told and follow along like sheep. The odds of this changing significantly at any time in the near future are slim. For now we can continue to make our presence in society evident. We can encourage those of our community that have a platform that allows them to be heard, to keep speaking out and to generally make our presence in human civilization known. That is the way to effect a change so that sexual orientation is a non-topic when politics are discussed. My opinion only.
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
    #4 quebec, Aug 13, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
  5. Chip

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    I think it has to do with the ultra-conservative religious crazies -- basically the evangelicals -- hijacking the Republican Party. This happened a couple of decades ago. And unfortunately, the Repubs haven't had the intestinal fortitude to step up and say "This is bullshit. We are not a religiious nation, we are not driven by batshit crazy religious values that date back thousands of years, we're governed by a brilliant constitution. Maybe we should follow it."

    But as we continue to see, the Repubs will contort themselves in any way humanly possible (and some ways not humanly possible) to justify their positions, no matter how hypocritical, bigoted, racist, or even anti-conservative their perspectives may be... all to keep the religious crazies that have hijacked the party happy. And now they have an even more complex problem, with the anti-intellectual wing of the party that is doing its best to rid the party of any remaining vestiges of critical thinking or a science-based view of the world.

    The Republican Party of 30 years ago, while I may not have agreed with their conservative principles, was for the most part a party of integrity and principles. It was in large part Repubs who played a major role in the impeachment of Richard Nixon, and who ultimately forced his resignation. Mitch McConnell has shown himself to have absolutely zero integrity, zero principles, zero interest in doing what's best for the country. All he cares about is keeping his party in power, no matter what. It's my hope that the hottest place in Hell is reserved for him.

    We're really in sad shape.
     
  6. chicodeoro

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    The situation in the UK is slightly different. Religion isn't really a factor here. Instead the Conservatives (or the Tories as they are colloquially known) are riding a wave of English nationalist, sentimental longing for things 'as they were', back in the days when we had an empire, when Britain was white and LGTBQ+ people knew their place, ie in the closet. As we all know, Brexit is the result of this, but increasingly right wing politicians are trying to parlay that particularly victory into a general attack on all things 'woke'. And trans and non-binary folk are very much in their sightline.

    It should be noted that behind a lot of conservatism, in its voters rather than the politicians, is fear - fear of a rapidly changing world. Long term the Tories will lose - demographics will see to that. But in the here and now and in the foreseeable future the UK is a pretty bleak place for all of us yearning for a more tolerant, open-minded, progressive world.
     
  7. Kyrielles

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    Not really sure it is or was a chain of events just more of a mixture of many different things. For starters I personally blame religion overall. Loads of religious nuts (no offense) believe that being lgbt is wrong. Basic overall thought of a lot of religious people, and I get it, I mean they grow up thinking that and being taught that. Anyways that was off topic. My point is religion drives peoples mindset and actions sometimes. Loads of these conservative politicians are involved with religion and get a lot of money from religious people/companies therefore they push their views and publicly stand for those views. But that’s just my opinion. Add in some stupidity also.
     
  8. PatrickUK

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    In the UK, just as in the United States, lobbying plays a big part in the political agenda. The UK government is 'in hock' to various fringe interest groups with deep pockets, including reactionary media tycoons like Rupert Murdoch who use their evil empires to promote half-truths and blatant lies. In short, they pay to have it their way.

    Fundamentalist religious groups are well financed because they manipulate the faithful into parting with huge sums every week. All of that money gets funnelled into the campaign funds of right wing parties and politicians who then have to do the dirty once they are elected. It's a fetid system that can be manipulated to undermine human rights and dignity.

    In countries with strict regulation of political lobbying and financing and more proportional voting, we see greater balance, but in the UK and US the system is stacked and can be exploited and corrupted. If you can pay, you get your say and people with extreme views are more than willing to cough up in order to protect their narrow interests.
     
  9. DavidDublin

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    Conservatives are influencing people in the US and the UK to look to "go back to a better time" (that never existed). There is also the issue that you only have two parties (I'm sorry Liberal Democrats in the UK) due to the way your voting works. "First passed the post" and some gerrymandering means you never have a viable third party for long (if ever).
     
  10. Tightrope

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    I think it's like a treadmill or packaging.

    If you come from a real traditional background, have a lot of money, look good, and have always been in nice surroundings, you'll probably end up being a Republican and conservative. You do end up choosing that but when you consider the treadmill you've subconsciously been on, then it makes sense. I think about people I've gone to school with and work with.

    There are going to be deflections from this path. People who are exposed to different values or are able to experience a different world than what they grew up around have ah-ha moments, call it as bunk, and might deviate from that.

    Clean cut, rich, good looking men or people such as policemen and firemen might really carry the torch for being conservative as it relates to LGBT folks and roll it in with other issues. It's highly likely that they've been hit on or they pick up that more than a few guys are checking them out. I don't think they like it. I think it pushes them against LGBT folks and issues. Over the years, I've been shocked by some of the things media people such as Mel Gibson, Chevy Chase, and a few others have said about gay and bi people. Their backgrounds seem to fit what I'm getting at.

    Sexual orientation should be a non-issue. It's obsessed people who have to keep on bringing it up and look for scapegoats. Now I now the Bible has several clobber passages. There aren't many. I think I know what some of them are and think it's important not to take them literally. The other thing that raises eyebrows is how some men in clergy roles are so homophobic when they themselves are a cause for some suspicion because they ping. They're the ones that appear real wholesome and judgmental. They have the potential to hurt a lot of people. The ones who are a little bit more renegade seem to be more open minded and more accepting.
     
  11. DucksandBees

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    At least in the US it seems that in politics “traditional family” has historically been regarded as the conservative norm. Though, even up until early 2000s liberal politicians used what we would now probably term homophobic statements to appear moderate around election time. I’d venture to say that in the last 20 years even conservatives have at least slowly accepted that the LGBT community exists, and while there are some who still harbor a certain level of complete ill-will, some have also decided it isn’t worth fighting about as a main issue source any longer.
    My family was always part of that conservative group and still are. I’m not sure the fundamentalists are manipulated into giving money and support, they want to hang on to that old way and so continuing to finance the old way makes them feel like they are fighting a good fight. Fear might drive some of it, nostalgia might as well. Personally, while I lean fiscally conservative, I also consider myself socially rather liberal, so I latched onto the Libertarian side of politics that says - you let me be and I’ll let you be and we will just move on with our lives accordingly. Unfortunately, the 2 major parties both work to keep any 3rd parties from ever gaining ground. The shuffle is always about control, if isn’t regarding how you live - it’s regarding where you spend. Politics can become a religious thing if you let it. I think one could be over-zealous about moral politics just as one can with moral religion, but in the past the “conservative” view was to maintain status quo by it’s nature and not to embrace anything progressive - so to bring it back to the original question, I’m not sure a chain of events caused conservatives to take up the anti gay label - it’s just never really been removed from its original existence, unlike “progressives” who have progressed in the area.