What is pansexual?

Turns out that if you ignore a thread you still get notifications if you get quotes or replied to, so yeah. Though the fact that I need to defend that is ridiculous anyway, I thought we were adults having a discussion. But you know, if you want to belittle me, purposely misrepresent my arguments (claiming i'm saying bi is the same as polyamory? what a stretch, man), then... sure. whatever. I appreciated this website for some of the constructive discussions I've been able to have, but honestly, this here? is downright a shame.

 

This is why I’m barely here anymore. And after stuff like this it makes me want to literally never come back.

 

Since this topic is also about me I wanted to confirm this, I'm still not totally sure concerning my sexuality but I guess since my BF has an intersex condition and I feel some attraction to both sexes I feel like pansexual would probably the most fitting word. Only I never use this word. Nobody knows it, everybody thinks 'pans?'. Most people know the word bisexual. It doesn't really bother me that most non LGBT people think "attracted to both sexes". LGBT people in general know that's not necessarily the meaning of the word. A lot of bi associations use the "attracted to more than one gender" meaning of the word. That bi means two is true but we're not talking about the word bi but about the word bisexual and the meaning of that word is clearly changing. It's becoming an umbrella term.

 

To the original poster: yeah, figuring out which label to apply does seem to matter, though just knowing yourself without getting the perfect label is fine too from my perspective. And if it is other than “gay” “lesbian” or “straight” you may get folks who want to talk more about what you mean. Maybe that is one reason why some celebrities are saying they don’t really like labels. Some folks jump over to the “queer” identifier, but in my generation that still implies “gay” (and so folks would assume I was limited to just an attraction to men). Queer was also used as meanly as the f*gg@t word when I was young, which dissuades me from embracing it (but I can see that’s not a hang up of younger generations).

I’m OK being challenged about the definitions. When I first came to Empty Closets I thought I listed myself as straight — and that’s still the way I live my life. I didn’t like the choice of straight though, I thought Kinsey would have included me somewhere “greater than zero” under the mostly-heterosexual region of the graph. I got some good advice and challenging from folks here including from Chip, and my time in therapy, that brought me to embrace bisexual instead.

@Chip , I’d love for someone to start redefining “heterosexual” first, before turning on those of us who use bisexual more broadly than originally understood. Who got away with deciding “hetero” means “opposite”?!? (Um... some dead white guy who knew better?). Hetero is “other” or “different”. If any want to argue about what root words really mean, let’s open up “Heterosexual” to mean what it says — attraction to people of other genders, different from your own gender. This bisexual guy would really love for those wanting to be correct in terminology to go after “hetero” first.

In real life, I find fewer challenges when I use “bisexual”.
Here are two definitions I like:
I like GLAAD’s definition from their media guide. They started using this definition about five years ago when they updated their 9th edition to reflect growing awareness of multiple gender issues, and now it is repeated in the current 10th edition:
Bisexual, Bi: A person who has the capacity to form enduring physical, romantic, and/ or emotional attractions to those of the same gender or to those of another gender. People may experience this attraction in differing ways and degrees over their lifetime. Bisexual people need not have had specific sexual experiences to be bisexual; in fact, they need not have had any sexual experience at all to identify as bisexual.
And I like Robyn Och’s definition, from her website:
DEFINITION OF BISEXUALITY: “I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one sex and/or gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.”

 

Regardless of the "back and forth" on definitions, I find this thread educational. I often have discussions with gay friends about what it really means to be a bisexual. There is widespread misinterpretations and misunderstanding of some of the terms. So, even though there is "accepted terminology" by the experts that doesn't mean that us out in the real world understand what those definitions are. I've been told that I am not bisexual because I feel a difference for men and for women and true bisexuals don't. That they are attracted "regardless" of gender and I am attracted "because" of the gender. It's just that I am attracted to both males and females. I have no idea about my attraction to trans but I might be. I just don't know.

I did, apparently incorrectly, believe that pansexual was those attracted "regardless" of gender. So, I need to, probably, just reply "I don't know what my orientation is but you have really pretty eyes".

 

Maybe Chip you should consider that in this case it just is not us who are wrong. The meaning of the word bisexual is changing. We're not writing about a small group of people, lots of associations use Robyn Och's definition as mentionned above by someone else.

 

It's my understanding that the prefix "pan" comes from the Greek definition for all, so in the case of pansexual we're probably talking about potential attraction to people of both sexes, including people who are transitioning or have transitioned and people who are non-binary. I appreciate that it might be more nuanced than that, but it's sometimes helpful to try to bring things back to basic concepts that can be easily and reasonably understood. When we muddy the waters too much and introduce lots of caveats and niches ideas, it creates lots of confusion and can do more harm than good.

Many people who identify as pansexual could just as easily identify as bisexual, but for reasons best known to them, they prefer pansexual. Ultimately, it's a choice for the individual to make, but I do think it's more helpful (and aids understanding) when we select labels that are widely understood.

 

Robyn Ochs definition of bisexuality: “I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one sex and/or gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.”

This is one of the best definitions of MY sexuality I have read. I'm fine with just using "non-straight" and avoid the pitfalls of labeling. What is great about the term "pansexual" in my opinion is that it does recognize that some identify with something beyond what might be typically considered to be bisexual and I guess that can be a good thing because it provides recognition (even if some of us are still a bit confused about the pure definitions).

 

Hi Kevin K,

Here are a couple more definitions, this time from a source that Empty Closets recognizes (PFLAG) (at least EC provides a link to the PFLAG national organization on their resources pages so I assume it is considered reputable here, it certainly is by me):

From PFLAG:
Bisexual: Refers to an individual who has the capacity for attraction—sexually, romantically, emotionally, or otherwise—to people with the same, and to people with a different, gender and/or gender identity as themselves. People who identify as bisexual need not have had equal experience- or equal levels of attraction- with people across genders, nor any experience at all: it is merely attraction and self-identification that determine orientation. Bisexuality, as it is frequently used today, can act as an umbrella term that encapsulates many identities such as pansexual. Sometimes referred to as bi or bi+.
Pansexual: Refers to a person whose emotional, romantic, and/or physical attraction is to people of all genders and biological sexes. People who are pansexual need not have had any sexual experience; it is the attraction and self-identification that determines the orientation. Often included under the umbrella of bisexuality.

Each of the definitions I’ve posted in this thread are from generally respected sources (GLAAD and Robyn Ochs may not be officially recognized as “respected” by ECCS itself, I’m not claiming that, but PFLAG does at least get recognized by this forum’s parent company). The fact that “men and women” designations are not present in these definitions speaks to the shift occurring, which opens the terms to recognize our society is (slowly) starting to open up gender discussions beyond the limitations of past generations.

Have you had more conversations with your friend?

 

I really do not understand why everyone's getting so angry at @Chip. Literally since I've been here it's been the policy and protocol that EC supports research-based information and simplification and a generalized understanding of terminology.

Months back I got the opportunity to speak on a coming out panel (whole long thread about it, lots of fun) and frankly the only disappointing part about that to me was that almost the entirety of the panel was dedicated to the other people having to explain super obscure terminology that hardly anyone have ever heard of. One person literally admitted to stumbling on said obscure terminology on a Tumblr or blog post.

We should want to help educate others and the easiest way to do that is with a collective understanding of generally supported terminology.