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What Does It Mean to Have "Sexual Fluidity" Really?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by BiGemini87, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Chip

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    This is a great way of stating it. Somehow, we've gotten to this place where people somehow think it's a credible dispute to factual information to say "well, I have a different opinion." It is not an opinion that the earth is round (though some argue otherwise.) Pretty much the same with this stuff.
     
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  2. Marci

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    What was true 100 years ago isn’t necessarily true today. That doesn’t make those that lived back then liars or idiots. How many genders or sexual orientations are there. Who knows? Who cares? Hormones naturally change in everyone as you age. Does that change who you are as you age. They certainly can change how you look. HRT has risks associated with it whether it’s estrogen or testosterone. Gender and sexuality is inside you not what you look like on the outside. Until society on the whole accepts this truth they are going to continue to be wrong.
     
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  3. Bastion

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    So according to this analogy. No one should be able to speak their mind or their truth. There would be no Outliers. Just like heteronormative conditioning. So I guess we either conform or are in denial.
    Back to square 1. Ok cool. Good to know.
     
    #43 Bastion, May 5, 2021
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  4. QuietPeace

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    I am not in favor of censorship in any way. If someone wants to say something that is not inflammatory or an attack on someone then they should be allowed to do so. However if someone says something that is blatantly false then other people should be allowed to point it out without it resulting in them being attacked.

    As far as "speaking their truth". What is true must be true otherwise there is no truth. Everyone cannot have a different "truth". If words do not have agreed meanings then communication cannot happen. The earth is shaped as an oblate spheroid and it not shaped like a plate. In a euclidian universe 2+2=4, always. Orientation does not change, people can behave in different ways due to different influences in their lives but orientation does not change.


    From Websters
    No one in this thread is trying to force anyone into acting in any way that they do not want to. It is merely a discussion on what orientation actually is. If people want to act outside of the label they use then they are welcome to do so. Conformation is not being discussed at all.
    I have no clue what you mean by denial in this context.


    This sounds dismissive.
     
    #44 QuietPeace, May 5, 2021
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  5. LostInDaydreams

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    The point is not that people can’t have an opinion, but that having an opinion does not make it a fact.

    @Chip has already explained what the credible research on this topic says, as well as why any misinformation on the forum is called out. This is because it is not helpful to members who are already vulnerable and confused. That should be enough.
     
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  6. sojabohnenfeld

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    Is everyone from California this mean?

    I read this thread because I saw there were a lot of posts. I would just say: please don't belittle people for being uninformed. Everyone comes from different backgrounds. It's wrong to make fun of someone for their intelligence.

    Regarding the actual topic, I think it depends on the word fluid. I'm probably late to the party, but I think attractions are fluid, of course, but sexuality itself is not. I will always be interested in men. I wish I knew why. It just is.
     
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  7. Nickw

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    Maybe it's best to discuss this topic with different nouns? We do know that "sexual orientation" which is often referred to as our "sexuality" does not change. However, our sexual "behaviors" and "attractions" might. Some of us wonder why this is the case. I think it's fair to ask that question. I don't know why I go through phases where I desire men more than women (the famed "bi-cycle). It just is that way. Maybe it's that I'm more in touch with my feelings sometimes and that allows me to express my same sex desires. But, I also know that some activities, such as kitesurfing, or extreme skiing, will really stimulate my same sex desires. Does this rush of testosterone help diminish my built in defenses against expressing my same sex desires? That seems to be the likely reason (maybe it's the surfers in tight wet suits?)

    On this forum, we have those of us who come here and ask the question "why now? Why am I a middle aged happily married person who now, desperately, feels like my sexuality has changed?" We look for reasons for this. And, we ask questions. There is nothing wrong with asking the questions some have asked here. I do understand that sometimes in asking those questions some may express that the science just doesn't correlate with their experience. I do think it is important to reiterate what the science tells us, as @Chip has. But, I also think we should take the opportunity to engage someone who feels their sexuality has changed in a safe and non-threatening way.
     
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  8. Bastion

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    Ok I would like to begin this post by saying what an interesting conversation. You guys are all awesome. That’s why I keep coming back to this richly diverse community of people who share all those views and opinions and experiences.
    What this means is I don’t come here to argue with people and dispute scientific research and facts. Nor am I here to spread misinformation. As I said before am here to discuss what I have read about some topics regarding human attraction, sexuality, behavior and orientation. It still is a puzzle to me and I can’t get my head around why sometimes we feel or behave or act in certain ways. It is still a mystery to me.

    Maybe the fact that I grew up in a very close minded and religious environment has something to do with my angst sometimes or I get worked up trying to explain something and it doesn’t come across as I intended it to be. But if somehow I offended someone or anything I apologize cause this is not my intention.

    So @QuietPeace i hope you understand my issues with “conform” I mean the intransitive verb meaning 2a and b.
    Secondly if some find themselves nearer to the middle of the spectrum. They will always be judged to be in denial or can’t make up their minds. Which am not, but I do feel attractions to both genders in different ways and to varying degrees throughout different periods or phases.

    And i repeat @Chip’ expression, which is a good one. For the 300 time. I never said that sexuality fluidity is an orientation. Nor that I meant to imply that a person’s sexual orientation completely changes.
    Please read my main post to Sexual Fluidity. And check the references to researchers and citations. One of them is actually a fellow researcher in the Kinsey institute and author. I did not make things up in that post. It was all based on articles.

    This is another definition I found online:
    “The degree to which a person is sexually fluid is a separate variable that operates alongside sexual orientation. Some people are highly fluid, while others are less so”
     
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  9. sojabohnenfeld

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    I think this is a good point. But it can also be used against lgbtq people, as it goes against the idea that sexuality has never been a choice. And it isn't, but I still think this can be a useful way to look at sexuality and relationships. But I don't really know.
     
  10. Marci

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    Could “sexual fluidity” be a sexual orientation? What “if” sexual orientation can change and there is some genetic reason that it does that humankind does not yet understand. I might only be attracted to “red heads” and does that mean I can’t suddenly be attracted to “blondes”. Some males develop male pattern baldness. Is that a intentional change or genetic change. Why couldn’t change in “sexual orientation” be just some genetic change. Is there scientific evidence that one is born with a specific gender or sexual orientation and that cannot change? As I’ve grown up and older, I’ve learned that everything changes and not because I want it too. I “might” not have been born a womxn but that doesn’t mean I’m not a womxn now. I believe the same about sexuality. Everyone evolves!
     
  11. QuietPeace

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    No fluidity is not an orientation and orientation does not change, that is what this entire thread is about and says.

    Baldness that occurs as male age occurs because of DHT (an androgen hormone) in the system and the amount of hair loss is affected by the genetics that are programmed in at conception. It is not at all due to a genetic change in the person who is becoming bald.

    As the entire thread says orientation does not change. A persons knowledge of their gender and orientation can develop through life but we are who we are.

    From my past knowledge of articles our genes have some effect, the environment in the womb has other effect and our epigenetics has some effect also but yes, we are "wired"
    An article showing that there is evidence that we are "wired"
    https://cosmosmagazine.com/science-of-sexuality/

    Not genetically. Species evolve but that is through long genetic drift over hundreds of generations not in an individual.
     
  12. dirtyshirt84

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    I have heard of very rare cases where someone has a serious accident (I think usually head trauma) and have been in a coma and when they wake up their orientation has changed. So if your brain chemistry is altered in an extreme way like this, I suppose it might be possible.

    For the vast majority of people though I think it will be fixed throughout their live, with some people not perhaps realising they might be Bi/gay until later life.
     
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  13. Nickw

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    @QuietPeace

    Thank you for posting that article. I find the the biology of homosexuality very compelling. I have 3 gay siblings (at least) from a very large family. I'm sure there is some sort of biological marker. This article elaborates a bit more on the issue...

    Minireview: Hormones and Human Sexual Orientation | Endocrinology | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

    We get the hand we are dealt by nature. Most likely by the time we are born but possibly stimulated by an environmental condition in early development. There may also be a biological reason for homosexuality that has benefits to our species and that is why we have evolved this way. Bisexuality is an even less understood product of nature. Although, we should consider that not all biological processes are either/or.

    What remains a mystery to myself and others here is why these same sex attractions manifest so strongly later in life?
     
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  14. QuietPeace

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    I do not have any sort of study to point to but it seems to me that the longer I suppressed who I was that the harder it fought back until it finally burst forth and it seems to go that way for other people also. Sort of a dam breaking sort of thing first a major flood and then back to the normal flow of the river type of thing (not sure if that is a great analogy but it seems right to me)
     
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  15. Chiroptera

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    I want to remind everyone that you all have accepted the Terms of Service and the Code of Conduct when registering to EC.

    I understand some topics are sensitive to some of us but remember that your freedom of speech ends when you are using it to attack, mock or cause discomfort to others. In other words, no, you are not allowed to say anything you please in the forum if it goes against the Code of Conduct.

    Please be respectful towards others, even when you disagree with their viewpoint. We are here to learn and support each other, not to fight amongst ourselves.
     
    #55 Chiroptera, May 7, 2021
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  16. Marci

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    I certainly hope I did not offend anyone. I believe that sexual orientation can change but I don’t believe in “conversion therapy”. I believe people can evolve if not any other way then intellectually and emotionally. My deepest apologies.
     
  17. Chip

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    Please cite a credible source for the above (and by "credible", I do not mean the Weekly World News... :slight_smile: )

    The reason I say the above is because I don't think there is a credible source. If there is, I'm happy to look at it. Otherwise, I have to go back to the basics: Uninformed opinion, based on hearsay, somebody on Tumblr, a random unsourced blog, or the Weekly World News does not represent a credible source. There's a lot of conjecture in this thread that belies a complete lack of understanding of the psychology and neurology of this. It's one thing to state an unsupported opinion as an opinion. It's another to talk about facts.

    The facts have been discussed here enough that there really shouldn't be any meaningful dispute at this stage. If there is any dispute, it would be best if whomever is making it can cite credible sources. Otherwise, we're really just going in circles and wasting time.
     
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  18. Chip

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    I'm not seeing any comments that are belittling anyone for being uninformed.

    To hold onto a "belief" that is contradicted by factual information isn't really a belief or opinion, it's a willful choice to remain ignorant and not update one's understanding of the world. All of us have had misguided beliefs or have absorbed incorrect information (or no information at all.) Nothing wrong with that. But there's a difference between lack of knowledge and willful ignorance.
     
  19. sojabohnenfeld

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    Good for you. If you can't see it, I'm sorry. Your comments about it not being a challenge to understand. Sound like you are saying "why is everyone so dumb." Some people, like myself, understand things slowly.
     
  20. QuietPeace

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    Believing in something does not make it true though. Some people believe that Donald Trump is still president of the USA.

    The issue with this might be that earlier in this discussion the word evolution was mentioned in the context of genetic changes and the science behind evolution of species says that it is something that takes place in something more like a geological time frame and not within a single generation. Perhaps phrasing it as "people can grow throughout their lives (ideally)". In fact learning to accept the truth about much of what is discussed in this forum is a type of growth, as is learning to accept ourselves for who we are (as in learning to accept our true orientation and/or gender).

    I do not think that anyone in this discussion intends to say or even imply that. It goes against the terms of agreement of the forum to be insulting like that. One thing is that cognitive dissonance is a real thing and people can have trouble accepting reality which at times can be frustrating for both sides in a discussion.
     
    #60 QuietPeace, May 7, 2021
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