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What does feminism mean to you?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by AnotherQueer, May 14, 2016.

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  1. BryanM

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    1. Transphobia and lack of acceptance of transfeminine people within the movement
    2. The focus on middle-class, white, cisgender western women
    3. Exclusion of sex work acceptance
    4. Ableism within the movement ("Spoons" Theory misuse is a good example I've seen done) \
    5. Lack of acceptance of certain religious minorities

    These are just a few examples, some I mentioned before that feminism needs to address to become more intersectional.

    They're buzzwords to you because you do not understand what they fully mean. Transphobia is more than just the fear and hatred of transgender people, it also includes societal benefits that cis people get that trans people don't, and like the example here: LANGUAGE. Language matters, and the term "mangina" is transphobic because of the following reason:

    Why do you use the term mangina to describe male feminists if not to insult them? I really want to know why.

    Toxic masculinity is when masculine people feel the need to prove their masculinity and police other masculine people's masculinities by marking the masculine gender role as aggressive, sexual, unemotional, anti-feminine and so forth. Examples of toxic masculinity include thinking men can't be survivors of abuse and thinking certain traits are not masculine and no masculine person should have them. The term "mangina" perpetuates toxic masculinity because it is given with the assumption that a man who is a feminist is "not masculine enough to be a 'real' man".

    None of this means you are a bad person or that I think you are either. I think you do have an ability for trying to explain your case. However, in this situation I do think you have fallen into the trap of toxic masculinity given to all men by the patriarchy (lol you're probably hating that this effeminate feminist gay man is using all of these 'buzzwords' he learned at his liberal arts school's queer theory class, but I promise that's the last of them) when they are being brought up socially.
    Why should I trust you? I have seen many people try to say the exact same talking points about intersectional feminism in the past and they all have either made things up and labeled it personal experience or misconstrue what people say. What makes you any different? Do you have links or quotes from these people actually saying these things, or can you not provide that. I really want to know.
    I'm just stating the facts.

    The concept of intersectionality is not that women of color are superior or that women are superior to men. Intersectionality means that all of your identities react with each other and all make up you, and this means that a white cis woman will have different lived experiences than a black trans woman for example. This is what Kimberlè Crenshaw, the person who coined intersectionality said of the subject:

    In her work, Crenshaw discussed Black feminism, which argues that the experience of being a black woman cannot be understood in terms of being black and of being a woman considered independently, but must include the interactions, which frequently reinforce each other. Crenshaw mentioned that the intersectionality experience within black women is more powerful than the sum of their race and sex, and that any observations that do not take intersectionality into consideration cannot accurately address the manner in which black women are subordinated.

    Nowhere in that makes me assume that she meant black people are superior to white people, so what about intersectionality makes you feel that way? I'm legitimately wondering.



    It doesn't assume that, though, you're assuming that about intersectionality. By saying that intersectionality treats all people with the same identities in a monolithic way, you are hereby ignoring one of the key parts of intersectionality that says everyone's individual identities ALL react with each other, which can create different lived experiences even within the same group. You say that you don't face the same problems as other young black men, and intersectionality would agree with that statement. Your other identities along with you being black shape your lived experiences.

    When it comes to Matthew Santoro, a lot of MRAs responded with claims that he was lying, that men can't get abused, and by calling him things such as "girly boy" and "faggot". I can't find any examples right now, but I'm sure if you go and watch a news story on YT about him you'll see them.
     
  2. beastwith2backs

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    1. I don't know much about this, so...
    2. I think the focus is just on cis-gendered women in general.
    3. Legitimate point, i'll give you that.
    4. How is their ableism? Who is openly discriminating against disabled people?
    5. How? I highly doubt they are being discriminated against, openly. What is meant by acceptance, and more importantly what do their religions teach?

    For the millionth time, i don't think guys who support intersectionsl feminism are "feminine or less of a man" what am i now, Okonkwo from things fall apart? I just think they're wrong, and i don't support intersectional feminism, abd with good reason. Yes, the term "mangina" is meant a diss, but not against trans men. Most guys who it is used against are actually straight, like steve shives. I don't want to be rude, but i get the vague feeling this isn't running through your head...i've had to explain it three times now!

    Oh and by the way, why do you care so much which words i use? I can say whatever, can't i? That's my right.

    If i'm not a bad person for saying those words, then why are you calling me out then? What was the point in all that?
    Don't worry, i had little to no preconceived notions about you, other than that 1) you have an EC account, 2) you're trans because the sidebar says so, and 3) you're a moderator and i feel pretty scared arguing with you, because i might say the wrong thing and you have the power to delete my account. But thanks for letting me know where you get your information from?

    You want proof? Fine i'll give, but you might nof like it:

    "Everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out to everyone all the time..."- Anita sarkeesian

    24 questions black people have for white people: https://youtu.be/GuVMJmC0V98

    This lovely woman explaining how PC culture totally isn't ruining free speech: https://youtu.be/K3SLzWi3wQU

    A response to it: https://youtu.be/dS8OxCzXuxY

    This lovely trans person explaining why everyone in the worls hates him/her: https://youtu.be/E5Brqo0vSNE

    Her well deserved response: https://youtu.be/prdsADeJkLU

    Some articles explaining whats wrong with intersectional feminism:

    FCKH8 Stunt Shows What's Wrong With Feminism In America

    Modern feminism has got it wrong about men - Telegraph

    Two Big Things Feminism Gets Wrong


    https://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/the-ten-most-common-feminist-myths/

    There, please go through a few of them, if you can.

    About your response to my intersectionality claims: i don't really understand what you're talking about here, so i don't know how to adress them. I'll do more research and see what i can find...
     
    #42 beastwith2backs, May 15, 2016
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  3. 2Sides

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    Feminist: I WANT MONEY CUZ I'M A WOMAN AND I CAN'T COPE WITH RAISING A CHILD ALONE SO I NEED MONEY EVEN THOUGH NO ONE FORCED ME TO HAVE A BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE. I HAVE A VAGINA, THEREFORE ENTITLES ME TO SLAP MEN AND NOT GET HIT BACK. BLA BLA BLA

    Basically feminists is just a bunch of annoying women and even men that expect to be treated better because they are born with that thing between their legs.
     
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