So tonight I had a first date with exactly the kind of guy I'd want to be with -- a hot latin hispanic guy. We had a great night over dinner, drinks, etc. Talked about sexual preferences... all seemed ok. We made out in the car, blow jobs, etc. he asks me to come back to his place. I tell him we have not talked about STD status or testing. He tells me its ok if I'm poz. I freaked...made out some more, then i left. In my area, men of color, men in the area he lives in have the highest rate of HIV. Of course I knew this before I went out with him. Of course I knew this earlier in the evening. But in the throes of passion, and after a few drinks, I honestly did not trust that what he'd say would be other than what he needed to say for us to f*ck. When he said its ok if I'm poz -- all I could think of is, how many other men has be said this to? And I got scared. So -- folks -- what else could I have done? He's a great guy, and I hope I have not lost the chance to be with him. What should I say to him?
Do you think he said it's okay if you are because he already is? I think you did the right thing. Congratulations. Sorry but I don't have any advice further than that
Well, there are several issues here. First, his statement is really ambiguous. His saying "it's OK if you are poz" ceratinly indicates that either he is HIV+, or that he has likely been with other HIV+ and doesn't know/doesn't care about his own status. In either case, it doesn't sound like he's very cautious or thoughtful about his own personal safety surrounding safer sex. To me, that would be an enormous red flag and, for me, a dealbreaker. And, as you said, his inclination will probably be to do whatever is necessary to get you in the sack, which also isn't good. So asking what his status or sexual history, or how diligent he is about being safe... none of that will tell you much because you can't be sure he's telling the truth. So you're left with either assuming he's HIV+ and acting accordingly... only participating in safe activities with him... or deciding it isn't worth the risk. Quite frankly, for me, anyone that's ready to jump to sexual activity after a first date is not someone I have any interest in simply because I, personally, am not interested in guys who are that promiscuous, both for health/safety reasons and because it is not the sort of behavior that's really compatible with who I am. However, if you're more comfortable with that sort of thing, then I'd say *any time* you're with someone who you believe to be promiscuous, regardless of what they tell you, and whether he's just gotten tested that very afternoon... treat them as though they have STIs and act accordingly. That means always using condoms, being cautious about oral sex, making sure that you aren't doing activities where semen could get anywhere near your eye (similar risk as unprotected anal sex). It also means, if you aren't absolutely certain who you're with, being *extremely* cautious when bottoming, because it's easy enough for a guy to slip off the condom, or claim that it "broke" mid-stream. A lot of guys will simply lie about condom use, start out with it, and then take it off because they like barebacking better. I don't like to be a Debbie Downer but... protecting yourself isn't really that difficult, and if you find the right person, they should be just as concerned as you are about playing safe. If they aren't... you pretty much have to assume they are HIV+, because, statistically, they will be, eventually, whether or not they are today. Also, of course, while HIV is the worst STI, there are plenty of others that are easily transmitted orally, so you have to think about that when having random oral encounters... genital warts/herpes, syphillis, gonorrhea, chlamydia are all easily transmitted orally. And people who hook up a lot are likely to have one or more of those.
This is turning the situation on its head a bit. You're not in the wrong for having health concerns, here. If there's anyone who lost the chance of being with someone, it's him who lost the chance of being with you. To be honest... I don't think there's all that much to salvage this situation if you value your health. There really isn't any other way to take his reply than "I just don't care". If he's that easygoing with it, it is indeed unlikely that you're the first guy he ever said it to. And, even more worrisome, it shows that he doesn't really seem to be thinking about YOUR health either. Now, I'm not necessarily against dating someone who's HIV positive, if extreme care is taken. I'm not even necessarily against sex on first date (again, if very much care is taken). But the key word in the above is "care". Even if you were to have a deep conversation about attitudes to sex and sexual history, even if you were to insist on using all possible countermeasures. Hell, even if you decided to both get tested... this is jeopardised if he, in the final analysis, doesn't care. It makes a slip-up all too easy, with potential far-reaching consequences. So he might have left a nice overall impression on first meeting, but I think you're best left looking for other great guys to date. Prioritising your health was definitely the right thing to do, here.
Hi Pete, You did the right thing for all the very good reasons stated above, and doing the right thing sometimes means being disappointed and having to say goodbye to the guy. There are many more out there who are worth meeting and who care about their health and yours. Take care.
Pete, Some of us here are like you, gay men with children. STI's are are deep concern for anybody. But for a man with dependent children he gambles much, much more. We often talk about hetero-normative behaviour, but there is LGBT-normative behaviour too. In my opinion it is far more important to be yourself setting a culture you are comfortable with rather than conforming to any group normative behaviours. A man with children gay or straight carries something more. I have a nephew, he loves crotch rocket cycles. He loves the exileration of speeds that would terrify most. Getting married he kept his bike. Having children the bike was gone. Just my opinion.
Thanks guys. Waking up in my bed alone this morning, its ok. I have a good friend (gay), who insists on having the conversation about STDs, testing, and safe sex almost right away. If he doesn't like the answer(s) he gets, he just walks away (he says!). To be honest, perhaps I'm a little overly romantic, too giving. Maybe needy? In my new gay, out life, I seem to have very quickly come to the critical mass of having options. I now know enough guys from LGBT groups to get a partner - sometime I ask them out, sometimes I get asked out, sometimes its mutual. And using (online site), and (2 hook up apps), there are men I've been chatting with online and talking to by phone (and several met IRL, though not for sex), that its not so tough to hook up or get a date. [I have a date tonight, too, with a man I've dated a couple times] My straight friend told me I'm in my adolescent phase... (ha!). Another straight friend says I'm whoring around before I settle down, he says its no different than what newly single straight guys often do. I'm being smart -- updating hep and meningitis vaccinations (I had those all ~12 years ago, but since I don't know exact dates, better safe). And using condoms. Early on, one of my "criteria" for selecting men was that they also have kids, like me. I figure that adds some level of respect, safety. The guy last night was an exception. Never married, never any kids. Can you tell I'm still conflicted? Ok -- that tells me to slow down. Well next week I'm too busy to see any guys, the week after on vacation with my kid. I'll think and see what this all feels like for me. Tomorrow morning, Easter Sunday, I'm the speaker at my Alanon meeting. Transition, rebirth, renewal -- themes that are greatly personal for me this year. I'm going to put my energy right now into my talk. Thanks to each of you.
Sounds like you already have quite comprehensive input above; however, I'll add my point of view. To me, and maybe I am being too presumptive, I do NOT think this guy sounds worthy of dating. You asked him about STDs/being safe and he side stepped and put it on you, going as far as to say, "its ok if you're pos." Why would he just revert the subject to you and off of him in such a bizarre manner? Like it has been said above, he could be HIV+, have been with guys who are positive or just simply NOT care about himself or his partner(s). Also, there is the possibility that he is just not educated on health matters at all and doesn't realize what he is even talking about, which is dangerous. This is nothing against people who are HIV+, but people have to speak clearly about it, however difficult it may be, not avoid it or say it doesn't matter. While it's not for me, sex on the first date can be tricky...it all depends on the context. Having drinks and then ending up in the car and then receiving some bizarre and unclear response about HIV doesn't sound like the right context or conditions to be having sex. It's great to be attracted to a person on a first date, but if sex can't wait (and you fear losing the guy), you have to seriously ask whether that guy was just in it for the sex in the first place. I've seen many of your posts. You're a smart guy evidenced by your posts. You sound like a great dad--I say keep looking, there's better out there!
Pete, Sounds like you've got some pretty good perspective on yourself. Slowing down is a good idea, and from what you describe, I'd say the adolescent phase statement is probably right on the money. Also, in case it isn't obvious, the fact that you're in Al-Anon is a great opportunity to work on yourself, and also to realize that the very fact you're *in* Al-Anon is an indication that there's some codependent tendencies going on, which definitely manifest as low self esteem and shame issues. If I haven't already, I'll give you a strong recommendation to check out Brené Brown's TED talk "The Power of Vulnerability" on Youtube. If it connects with you -- which it probably will, I recommend reading her books "Gifts of Imperfection" and "Daring Greatly". I think those will do amazing things to help you better love yourself and learn to put yourself first rather than reaching out continually for relationships and hookups; the paradox is, we can't really love anyone else until we can totally love ourselves, and that's something that codependents really struggle with... and something Dr. Brown's work hits squarely on.
I don't like it but sex ain't worth dying for. Worse than that would be the devastating effect on my family, knowing I died from something I caught because I was having sex with guys. How hard is the answer to this question? :eusa_doh:
