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What do you consider a fair starting salary?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Destin, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. Destin

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    What do you consider a fair starting salary for someone with a Bachelors degree in your field, and 1-2 years of applicable work experience in your field?

    I'm just curious, as I've been working for a lab for a year fully knowing that I'm underpaid, but it's a cool work environment with a cool boss and I didn't have any experience at first so I didn't care much. Recently I started searching job boards out of curiosity and realized that someone whose entire job is putting dog food on a shelf at a pet store makes more than I do with a nearly completed STEM degree and a year of direct experience in the field. I knew I was underpaid, but not THAT underpaid. I asked for a small raise for the first time ever ($2 an hour) and got flatly denied. Needless to say I feel pretty insulted now.
     
  2. Chip

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    Unfortunately, parity based on education, skill, and other factors is often nonexistent. For example, teachers, who are required to have a master's degree in many areas often make little more than $15/hour (minimum wage in much of the country.) And garbage collectors often start at $23/hour. I remember reading, years ago, that people who cleaned the municipal buses got a higher starting salary than those who drove them. And executive directors with advanced degrees at a large mental health nonprofit might make 80 grand a year, while therapists at a for-profit facility down the street might make 75 grand.

    Also, the cost of living influences starting salaries considerably. It's much cheaper to live in most of Florida than it is in in, say, most of California.

    Finally, educational institutions notoriously underpay student and graduate student assistants/lab techs, and have little incentive to raise wages, as there's nearly always someone else to fill the position.

    So ... unfortunately, it's sort of a reality you have to deal with.

    What you might do is look at salary.com or glassdoor.com. That will tell you what the salaries are in the for-profit realm, but won't really give you much if you're working at your university.
     
    #2 Chip, Jan 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  3. Chierro

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    For me (teaching) most starting salaries for districts I've applied to (and have their salary scale easily accessible) range in the $40-45,000 area with some being as high as $50,000 but most being on the lower end. At least in PA, getting your Master's within six years of starting teaching is the standard and with that comes a pay increase, but that's usually where I've seen teaching salaries at.

    For example, the district I'm going to start at soon, their base is around $50,000. That works out to around $277.78 a day and $37.04 an hour.

    Now, for my subbing and long-term subbing I've done most districts pay right around $100 a day (which depending on the district's hours works out to around $14-15 an hour). The district I'm at right now pays me at a rate of about $140 a day because I'm long-term so about $18-19 an hour.
     
  4. Destin

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    I do work for my university, as a lab tech conducting biochemical research focused on the agricultural industry. Trying to genetically alter food and enhance growing conditions to make it easier/faster to grow food in a wider variety of environmental conditions. The goal is to help decrease world hunger issues by making it easier to create more food in third world countries. I make $10 an hour 30 hours a week.

    The job postings for Petsmart here say $12 an hour just to stock shelves. CVS pays $12.50 an hour for pharmacy techs who just put pills in bottles all day. Most of the local banks here pay their tellers $14 an hour just to hand people money.

    I'm salty. Very salty.
     
  5. Shorthaul

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    I think Chip is a little on the high of trash collectors making that much bank except in maybe places like New York, Chicago or L.A. Best I ever got paid doing that was $18 an hour and that was knowing how to run 6 different trash truck configurations, tractor trailer and use a knuckle boom. The only people making more than me were the three mechanics and the boss.

    Generally most places that post jobs usually list a low ball salary and they expect some negotiation on it. As sometimes practical experience is worth more than just right out of school with a degree. That being said don't go just off of how much they pay, a higher per hour pay might mean less than great benefits in other areas. You have to look at all the benefits in the pay package and weight them. A slightly lower hourly pay with more vacation time and exceptional health care might actually be better than just a high per hour dollar amount.

    Its also been my experience that places that are better to work for offer better pay and benefits right from the start.
     
  6. Mirko

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    I am not entirely surprised in the gap between the hourly wage that you earn and what you could be earning in other jobs, including some very entry level jobs. While you are earning more than a dollar above the minimum wage, in what I have learned over the years, and also in my experience, students who work at a university, either in a position that is being offered through a Department or through the funding that a Professor might be offering, the wage can in some instances be lower than for a wide range of jobs, including some entry level jobs - once you factor in not just the wage, but also the number of hours you put in.

    The gap can differ, depending on the university, depending on the kind of funding that is available. Some universities/departments do a great job in trying to provide enough funding opportunities for students, which helps them to cover their living costs, accommodation, etc... Others, don't provide that much.

    If you don't mind me asking, are you getting paid through the Department, or through a grant of a professor's research project?
     
  7. Chip

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    It's crazy to me to hear of jobs requiring college-level experience paying $10 an hour when here in California, minimum wage is $12 (and $15 in some areas). And then there are parts of the country where minimum wage is still $7.25 or something. Insane. But then again, when I was at Oberlin, the campus minimum wage was only 50 cents above the state minimum wage, which was ridiculously low (as it still is).

    I hope you are able to get something that pays decently soon. The "You'll get experience in exchange for the cheap wages" routine only goes so far. :slight_smile:
     
  8. Chierro

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    Minimum wage is $7.25 in PA and that's what I got paid for all three years of my on-campus job. Of course, I had super flexible hours and that could range anywhere from 10-40 hours but...not great. The semester I was done working there was a slight pay increase (I think maybe $0.50) but still not...fantastic. My summer job at my university I got paid a couple hundred with the only difference being there we were getting paid through grants that our program got.
     
  9. Destin

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    I get paid through the Chemistry department's pool of money for anything salary related. If it were through a grant I'd be more understanding of it since I completely realize a professor can't pay any more if they only receive a small grant...but in this case I know for a fact there is literally tens of millions of dollars sitting in that pool of money since it's used for paying all of the professors and administrators too. They just don't want to give up an extra $2 an hour apparently.

    Florida's minimum wage is $8.56 an hour. It's somewhat acceptable in this part of the state since we have cheap housing available, but I don't know how they expect literally anyone to live on that in Miami.

    I wholeheartedly fell for the experience in exchange for cheap wages thing. They didn't mention the experience is only good for getting other equally low paying lab jobs, because without at least a Masters degree there is nothing that pays more.

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    #9 Destin, Jan 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  10. Mirko

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    What was the Chemistry's department reasoning for denying the pay rise?
     
  11. Destin

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    The standard "sorry but it's not in the budget" excuse. Which I 100% know for a fact is not true because the professor I work with has directly told me they have lots of extra money at the moment due to a few six-figure salary professors retiring last year who will be replaced with new people being paid half as much.

    I don't care about the $2, I have absolutely no need for an extra $2 and wouldn't even notice it financially, it's purely a respect thing to me and I only picked that number to put it in line with other college student jobs. I've been doing work for them for a year that 99% of the other students cannot do, having never asked for anything at all in return, and then get told I'm not worth a measly $2 raise. That's just extremely disrespectful to me.
     
  12. musicteach

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    Man... it must be nice to have an 7.5ish hour work day and a 37.5ish hour work week.

    But yeah, those numbers are pretty much par for course for our area, too. I think our base rate pay is like $43k/yr or thereabouts. Mine is a bit higher because of my masters and because I’m part of the athletic department we get a bit extra because of the longer hours. For our area, the base pay is comfortable.
     
  13. musicteach

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    Don’t take this the wrong way but if I’m understanding this you’re a Uni student who works at their Uni, correct? Because if that’s the case, you’re disposable. Students at your Uni who would like a job are a dime a dozen. You quit over it, twenty people will apply.
     
  14. Chip

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    That is the attitude I've seen as well. It sort of goes along with the overall air of academic arrogance that seems to permeate so many higher education institutions.

    The stupid part is, Destin's job, to do it well, likely requires some practice and experience... which they will almost certainly not get in hiring another student, and what they don't realize they will probably pay a lot more than the $2/hour difference in lost productivity and staff time to train a replacement and so forth. But again, institutional arrogance and lack of business sense in academia gets in the way of sensible decision making.
     
  15. musicteach

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    Yup, exactly. The whole attitude is “why should I pay you $12/hr when there’s 100 freshmen who need a job that I can pay $10/hr if you quit I’ll hire one of them”. But in truth, you’re right in that experience should count for something. Uni’s are famous for using their student populace for cheap labor.
     
  16. Mirko

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    Yeah, that's a pretty bad excuse. Given the amount of work you do, and even though you are working as a student, the work you do, should count for more than $10 per hour. Unfortunately, and as Chip pointed out, (many) academic institutions don't think that way.

    Even though you didn't ask for suggestions, and even though you seem to like working in the university's lab, I would suggest to consider finding something comparable outside of the university, if this at all possible. Reading between the lines, and while you have mentioned that it is a good place to work, and you are enjoying it, I wonder if that helps to mask (for now), how you actually feel about being underpaid to the extent that you are and are essentially being used. On the one hand, money doesn't seem to be an issue, though yet the situation seems to be bothering you. I'd say there is something to think about. :slight_smile:
     
  17. Mike92

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    I work in politics and live in one of the most expensive areas in the U.S., so this is a really difficult question to answer for me.

    There are so many factors that determine what you'll make starting out in politics and what is actually fair. For me, I got my start working on a re-election campaign for a member of Congress in 2014 back home in Pennsylvania making a shade less than $10.50 an hour. After the campaign, they hired me on to his Congressional staff in D.C. in early 2015 a few months before I finished my bachelor's.

    I was incredibly excited and thankful for the opportunity, but I was making $30,000 (the typical starting salary for a Hill staffer) and could barely pay rent for a one bedroom apartment in a shady area of Maryland. A starting salary of $30,000 back in Erie, PA would have been doable, but in the D.C. area it's nearly impossible. No one works on Capitol Hill to get rich - Hill staffers are badly underpaid and overworked in a brutal environment - but it is a terrific stepping stone to a high-paying job as a lobbyist or other political jobs in the private sector.

    But generally, anyone who wants to work in politics should be ready to prove themselves through doing the "grunt work" for little money or none at all, especially if you're starting out on a campaign. After paying my dues in various political positions on and off the Hill the last six years and earning a master's, I'm finally in a position where I'm living comfortably, just in time for me to hate politics and to start thinking about an exit strategy.
     
    #17 Mike92, Feb 11, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  18. alwaysforever

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    Actually fair and what is on offer are two separate things. Fair, salary in my mind, would be enough to live on without having to take second job. Much more important though is an employer who actually treats employees well, provides benefits, and leaves room for advancement. Very few places offer that sort of position any more.
     
  19. Destin

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    So I left my research job, since I didn't benefit from it anymore having already been accepted to grad school and not being paid fairly, and got a new job as a bartender at a restaurant only a couple blocks away. Today was my first shift, and apparently I'm good at it. Made $128 between salary and tips in a 4 hour dinner shift. I would have made $40 in that same time as a researcher.

    I'm stunned. I don't understand how pouring alcohol into a glass is worth triple what scientific research is to the economy, but I'm certainly enjoying it. A girl left me her phone number on the check too.

    Who knew years worth of making drinks for friends at parties could translate so well into a paying job haha.
     
    #19 Destin, Feb 29, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  20. Andrew99

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    I think $50,000 is a good starting salary.