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waiting and hoping

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by makman30, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. makman30

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    Hi, this is my first time on here. My life is mostly consumed with this man I am in love with. The situation wrecks me very often, and seems impossible, and at the same time I love this guy and want to be with him. I, however, am on the other side of this situation. I am gay, and I am perfectly accepting of myself, with no qualms about who I am. My guy, I'll name him DM, is the one who is trapped in the terror of who he is and what he wants to do about it. We have been seeing each other almost 9 months. It started as a sexual encounter, something he was doing secretly to just quench his desire for another man. He is 30 years old, has had sex with other men before me, and never had sex with a female. He has never been in any kind of relationship ever. Back in the beginning, he spoke of how his life plan would be to marry a woman and have kids and be 'normal'. He kind of steered the ride from the beginning, drawing me in and showing me interest, for about a month until I guess the fear of what was happening took over and he freaked out and tried to push me out of his life. That has happened a few times, but he never leaves. We ride this tumultuous rollercoaster. 9 months later we are still seeing each other, quite often, we speak every day, but to him it must be called 'friends' or 'buddies' or 'friends with benefits', any safe label he can use to not recognize that he is in a RELATIONSHIP with a man. After a while, things that were off the table initially were introduced and he became more comfortable.... kissing. spending the night. we went on vacation together. DM is extremely affectionate and touchy feely, and we have absolutely mind blowing sex, a few times a week. Sometimes he has tried to cut off the sex, and just be friends, but that never sticks. He does not want to live as a gay man because of family, upbringing, religion, and mostly the way he thinks his plan is supposed to be for his life. He acts very much like a robot concerning it, programmed, brainwashed, whatever you want to call it. I have spent all of this time just trying to ride the ride with him, and let him be where he is. It gets more difficult as he completely acts like my boyfriend, unless I start to talk about something or push the issue slightly, or tell him how he gives mixed signals. Then all hell breaks lose and he goes back to the system of how everything is labelled: 'We are friends', he 'doesn't feel anything for me beyond that', but his actions are real and speak completely differently. This wrecks my heart.... things are fine if I just go with his flow, on his terms, and don't mention anything about a relationship. We have discussed him talking to someone professionally about his dilemma, and he has agreed a couple times, but then won't do it. He still wants to just go on kind of denying things and keeping me around as his 'friend', and pretending like that is all it is. I tell him I love him, I try to help him come to terms with it, and I refuse to walk away because there is something great between us. And he doesn't walk away either although he has freaked out occasionally and says it would be easier. I have never been in any situation like this in my life. Anyone have feedback, experience, strength, or hope for me?
     
  2. quebec

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    makman30.....Hello and a very big welcome to empty closets! I have to admit that when I read your post my initial reaction was "Wow, that's really a difficult situation and I have no idea how to respond at all." Then I clicked away. But I couldn't stay away... So I'll do the best I can. It's not very unusual for someone to "ride the fence" over their sexuality as they approach the point when they finally accept it. I know that I did that. But I've not heard of someone being as extreme as your friend, friend-with-benefits DM. He sounds like he's stuck in a "loop" that he can't/won't escape. There seems to be a lot of fear behind his actions. Internally I think he is at war with himself. Honestly, I don't see this cycle being broken without some kind of external influence...someone completely unbiased, totally outside the vicious circle that the two of you are in. That means a counselor or a therapist who is LGBTQ Qualified or perhaps is also gay. I just don't see this cycle of we're OK/ we're not OK changing without that kind of intervention. I can easily see from your post that this is really causing you difficulties...I can only imagine what kind of internal turmoil that DM is in. His reaction to talking to someone about all of this will likely not be positive, but I really do think you should pursue it. If he won't go see someone, think seriously about going by yourself. Perhaps if you go he will eventually elect to go with you. I see advantages to each of you going alone and then going together. Please stay with us here on empty closets...keep us updated. We do want to help in any way that we can.
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  3. makman30

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    Thank you for writing back. I strategically work into conversations sometimes the option of speaking to someone about his struggle. There have been a couple times when he agrees. Sometimes I think I should walk away to see if it would mean anything to lose me, but I don't want to play games or give ultimatums. When it comes down to it, I love him with all of my heart, and I want him to be ok, but I really want him to live his true life and be happy.... of course with me. We have something very special, and I know it scares him. My fear is that he will do this his entire life and torture himself. Don't some people? Grrrrr…. I am hanging in there. Tomorrow is 9 months since we met. It is still going. We are both still doing our best. It breaks my heart. Oddly wonderful that your name is David, quebec. That is, of course, DM's name as well. :slight_smile:
     
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  4. mnguy

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    Yea this is sad that by now he's not making progress to calling your relationship what it is at least with you, but ideally coming out to some others. I'm not fully out, but I've never been in a relationship. If I had been I think that would have helped me out. It amazes me how guys who are so closeted get into relationships at all. I feel bad for you with him always threatening to leave if you do the wrong thing since that's not fair to you at all.

    How much do you discuss his reasons for staying closeted? Does he have more specific examples of why coming out would be so bad? Show him there are countless examples of people with strict families who survive coming out. People probably already wonder about him anyway. He can have the same things with you as with a woman, but with you there will be real attraction. He really needs therapy and maybe medication for anxiety or depression so I hope he'll go with you to see a therapist, he'll be honest and make progress. If he doesn't have mental health issues from hiding yet, he likely will eventually. Maybe try PFLAG even for yourself to find others locally who might know of good resources and someone to talk to. I hope you can gradually help him accept this and you'll be happy together, but at some point you should discuss moving on to dating other guys since it's hurting you. You deserve to have the kind of relationship you want too.
     
  5. makman30

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    Thanks for responding. There is no way I am moving on to dating any other guys. I love DM, and there is something real between us, even though it is difficult. I would have walked away already if it felt like the right thing to do, but it isn't. He is horribly restricted with himself, and it is like he talks himself out of feelings for a guy or that it will be his life. PFLAG might be a good idea, I don't know.... I have tried everything I can think of so far to support him, be there, give him little pushes, let him be where he is..... it is excruciating to think of what it could be if he dealt with who he is. I don't know. I am very sad today. Today is 9 months. I'm hanging in there.
     
  6. makman30

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    His reasons are plentiful, and kind of change around a bit. It used to be more focused on religion and his family and friends and not being accepted, and his upbringing which formed his 'values'. More recently he has shifted his reasoning to that of just not wanting to be in a relationship at all. He doesn't want the commitment.... blah blah blah. A lot of times he is grasping at anything to steer himself away from what happens naturally with him and who he just is. He wants to live to be some idealistic image of a person, some storybook character, full of goals and schedules and systems of 'what should be'. It is horrible. I wonder if I ever will mean enough to him to actually deal with his stuff. His fear and denial are strong as hell. I know that he wants me around, but he is trapped between the two.
     
  7. mnguy

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    This is familiar behavior to me and a lot of gay guys, although we usually don't recognize it at the time. We try to prop up a facade of perfection for the world to see and hope it hides that we're gay. We do it to avoid and distract ourselves from the fact that we're gay. If I keep busy enough I won't have time for a relationship and maybe I won't have to feel the longing for intimacy. Guys in general feel a lot of pressure to be successful, to win and to be a "real man". We allow our identities to be based on these things so if any of them falter, we get hurt by it. Of course we won't admit we're hurt or maybe even recognize what it is, but instead react in anger and further dig in behind our shields. While in the closet we constantly edit what we say, what we do, where we look and worry if anyone is suspicious of our sexuality. All of this is exhausting and takes a toll year after year. A lot of this and more is covered in the book, The Velvet Rage which might be a good one to read. I didn't really notice that I was doing all those things at the time, but after reading that book and other resources over the years I was able to see what was going on. I'm sorry you're so sad and hope you have other people you can turn to for good times and support. Take care!