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Upset over lack of inclusivity of trans folks in LGBT community

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Foxfeather, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Foxfeather

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    I had a mishap online with someone in another online LGBT community forum that led to me being shut down and shut out completely of that group, and I think it was a knee-jerk reaction. I'm really annoyed about it, but ultimately, good riddance!

    Maybe they're right and it was my fault, I don't really want to clue you guys/gals into the details, but it's just made me realize how marginalized the non-binary community really is. Because we don't fit in with male or female, it doesn't matter if the community is lesbian, gay, or cis. There's always someone who doesn't "get" us (and sometimes that person is a moderator. No offense to the EC mods, you have been pretty chill with me getting pretty deep and arguably controversial conversations going on EC, and I really appreciate it, believe me, I do).

    Online is one of the few places we can find each other and help each other through tough times, you know? It hurts a bit to get a bit of that safety net taken away by someone you thought could help you or understand you.
     
  2. Jellal

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    It's unlikely someone will understand you unless they've been through the same thing you have. And even then experience varies enough from person to person, that the odds are low someone else will really "get" you the way you want them to.

    If you're looking to feel "included" I think it's always a safer bet to obtain support from individuals, rather than expecting a larger group to welcome you with open arms. The bigger the group, the odds increase of finding someone who disagrees with you. That's just reality!

    I'm not out to make anyone's life more difficult though. I can relate to feeling the disconnect between body and mind, thinking you need to look different or sound different. It can be tough to deal with. I'm sure you've found at least a couple people who share your position, yes? Then it's most important to speak with them, and build mutual support together. Expecting a larger community to change means expecting others to change their minds and that is a long process that ends in disappointment more often than not.
     
  3. Cinis

    Cinis Guest

    I think one problem non-binary people in particular have is that many people group you in with the "trans trender" movement on tumblr. It's a very dangerous thing telling someone that they're not trans and are just pretending to get attention because the damage that can do to someone is immense. But if you look at tumblr and constantly see people talking about "music-gender" or "space-gender" can make one really cautious when it comes to accepting other's identities without doubting them. Sadly the most well known non-binary people are ones like Milo Steward etc. who no one takes sireously. (This is also the part where no one aknowledges that some N-B folks actually do transition on a physical level)

    The second big problem is the line between gender and gender roles. Many people that aren't trans don't really feel "female" or "male", they just are, so it can be hard to understand why or how someone would feel like a certain gender. If a non-binary person then explains their gender as "sometimes I wear girls clothes and sometimes boys clothes" ( which many seem to do) a lot of people will say "but that's just a gender role it doesn't change that your <insert birth sex here>"

    Is all of that an excuse to disrespect non-binary genders and people?
    Of course it isn't.Everyone deserves respect and even if you don't understand it, changing something as small as pronouns isn't a big effort.


    My advice is to not answer hate with hate and instead show them that your identity is something serious to you. Lecturing usually makes people feel attacked so they'll never see reason. Just persist in what you know to be true and prove them wrong by being yourself.
     
  4. Creativemind

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    While I am not NB, I am trying my best to be understanding and an ally by researching the situation more. At one point even I myself did not believe in it, so I feel like a lot of people are just ignorant and need better education.

    I think some people are skeptical because they link NB in the trans trender stuff on Tumblr like the above person said. Another issue people have is that sometimes NB people define their gender as being masculine/feminine, clothing, etc. This can confuse a lot of people, as 99% of binary gendered person do not follow strict gender roles themselves. It can even make some cis (and trans people) feel defensive, as they end up feeling insulted that the NB community is "implying" they're not a "real" man/woman because they don't follow their gender role completely. This is probably not the case, but I know a lot of people can end up feeling threatened by that message. However, in a way It's also ignorant as many NB people don't even always follow a certain gender role (some are 100% masculine or 100% feminine) and many of them have dysphoria that non gender confirming cis people simply don't have.

    People need to be educated, but sometimes they react worse to seeing someone angry and defensive, although I know it is hard to not be.
     
  5. EverDeer

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    I find it incredibly annoying how quickly people will simply gloss over or ignore your words just because they see your gender and immediately go "can't relate" and refuse to try and empathize, read through to see your real experiences that you've been through, or just give up because it seems like too much "work" to have to guess around someone's sex or whatever (which I honestly think is just a terrible excuse because all trans people are going through somewhat of an experience where we relate to each other based on if we were boys raised as girls, or girls raised as boys.... why is someone who is raised as a girl/boy but just wants to be neither much different? The common ground remains: someone who was born and ends up being treated some way that they really aren't!). Honestly it just seems silly that even other trans people look at boys and girls as separate worlds entirely and won't be friends with / give advice to someone who isn't their shared gender because they "can't relate" when we all kind of have experience with "both sides" of the spectrum and being raised on the "opposite" side and whatever too..... also, it irritates me that it seems like most activism and conversation in the LGBT community only ever has to do with sexuality.... and it always just comes down to if you like boys or if you like girls. It's just not that split and simple! There are straight trans people who are probably afraid to feel included because of all the stigmas and BS you hear about like "ew I saw a straight couple at pride" or something dumb like that, so it only increases the stigma that you have to look cis to fit in. I attended a pride last weekend with an outturn of 500k the entire weekend.... was there for like 4-5 hours during the day and out of all the rainbow flags and stuff I think I saw maybe.... 3-4 trans flags total just out of my general view.
     
  6. Nike007

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    I do find people really skeptical about non-binary genders. I sometimes doubt myself because of all this doubt. I believe it's just how our society currently is. I never knew about the Tumblr trans stuff until either here or a meme app I have that is mocking it constantly.

    It's hard for people to understand things they haven't experienced before or have heard of. I feel people may be more accepting of binary trans people because they already had a defined definition in society. For N-B, it's harder. Like, I see how it may be confusing to people if I tell them how I have bottom dysphoria and sometime she too dysphoria. It probably doesn't make sense to many people how I want both parts for bottom at the same time, and that sometimes I want my chest and other times I don't. That probably confuses people and I'm probably taken very strangely if I told people this.

    People will hate on anything if it's different than their views. Look at all the crusades we've had. How many people died because of different views on a topic? Hate isn't something new, and probably will always be there. Love yourself and educate people. If someone is being mean to you, just explain how you may have different opinions on something about them but you don't argue with them about it. Just a thought.

    -Niko
     
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  7. Krishebble

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    With time will come exceptence, I hope. Once more of us share our struggle with friends and family, society will begin to see that we exist. One thing that really helped me come out was the discussion around Ruby Rose when their movie came out. They were someone I could point to and say, that's how I feel. Their courage in living their life authentically and, more importantly, publicly reminded me that I was not alone. At this point, my parents do not understand, and won't listen. But once it becomes more talked about, and more understood within society as a whole, they will probably become more excepting. Patience is the key. It is not fair for us to wait to be recognized, but it is necessary, and one day it will happen
     
  8. EverDeer

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    On the topic of nonbinary awareness, this segment from some program in the mid 80s seems to be just about one of the most interesting things I've found, as it's probably one of the earliest American media representations of someone who wants to socially live openly as nonbinary before much of anything was even known of binary trans people. Also, it appears that Toby is asexual and intersex, from what they share throughout the interview.

     
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  9. Foxfeather

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    Haha I'm not on Tumblr for this reason, actually. :slight_smile: Just too many trends.
     
  10. Foxfeather

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    I'm sorry if I came off as angry. I know most people are innately good and open-minded. I guess it takes a lot of courage to look at someone who is "other" or "different" than you and accept them within your group. Humans are designed to be cautious and wary of things that are different. Fortunately, we're also designed to be curious, and sometimes curiosity wins over fear and that's when we learn.

    Just to clarify, I am not specifically making a complaint that a lot of trans people (esp. the younger generation, which, yes, includes me) make about how nobody "gets" their pronouns (e.g, ze, zim, I don't know how it works), or makes the effort to ask them for their pronouns before gendering them, or doesn't somehow respect them or take the time to research trans people or rights. I'm just a bit sad over a single experience where I felt excluded. Kinda like the girl at the park who got told she can't play with the boys. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    I'm glad EC is around to offer me that sense of inclusivity
     
  11. Cinis

    Cinis Guest

    You didn't really come across as angry.
    And it's got to be hard with how many people ridicule you and refuse to see you as a person just because of an extremely small part of yourself.
    I think that sometimes knowing why people act a certain way can help with showing them other ways and if that's not successful there'll always be other people that will accept you for who you are.
     
    #11 Cinis, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2017
  12. Blast

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    I am sorry you went through this. It can feel really lonely sometimes. It hurts when you realise how ignorant people can be even within the LGBT community.

    Peace and solidarity.
     
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  13. beagle

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    I watched the video and toby came across a little shy but turned the tables back on the host. Especially with the dog. It was very interesting and eye opening.